Rapist gets 60 days?!

[ucrzymofo87]

Here is an interesting story about a judge who sentenced a man 60 days in jail for repeatedly raping a young girl for 4 YEARS. In my opinion, a rapist of this caliber ought to be imprisoned for a minimum of 25 years and a maximum of life.

There was outrage Wednesday when a Vermont judge handed out a 60-day jail sentence to a man who raped a little girl many,many times over a four-year span starting when she was seven.

The judge said he no longer believes in punishment and is more concerned about rehabilitation.

Prosecutors argued that confessed child-rapist Mark Hulett, 34, of Williston deserved at least eight years behind bars for repeatedly raping a littler girl countless times starting when she was seven.

But Judge Edward Cashman disagreed explaining that he no longer believes that punishment works.

"The one message I want to get through is that anger doesn't solve anything. It just corrodes your soul," said Judge Edward Cashman speaking to a packed Burlington courtroom. Most of the on-lookers were related to a young girl who was repeatedly raped by Mark Hulett who was in court to be sentenced.

The sex abuse started when the girl was seven and ended when she was ten. Prosecutors were seeking a sentence of eight to twenty years in prison, in part, as punishment.

"Punishment is a valid purpose," Chittenden Deputy Prosecutor Nicole Andreson argued to Judge Edward Cashman.

"The state recognizes that the court may not agree or subscribe to that method of sentencing but the state does. The state thinks that it is a very important factor for the court to consider," Andreson added.

But Judge Cashman explained that he is more concerned that Hulett receive sex offender treatment as rehabilitation. But under Department of Corrections classification, Hulett is considered a low-risk for re-offense so he does not qualify for in-prison treatment.So the judge sentenced him to just 60 days in prison and then Hulett must complete sex treatment when he gets out or face a possible life sentence.

Judge Cashman also also revealed that he once handed down stiff sentences when he first got on the bench 25 years ago, but he no longer believes in punishment.

"I discovered it accomplishes nothing of value;it doesn't make anything better;it costs us a lot of money; we create a lot of expectation, and we feed on anger,"Cashman explained to the people in the court.

The sentence outraged the victim's family who asked not to be identified.

"I don't like it," the victim's mother,in tears, told Channel 3. "He should pay for what he did to my baby and stop it here. She's not even home with me and he can be home for all this time, and do what he did in my house," she added.

Hulett -- who had been out on bail-- was taken away to start his sentence immediately.

Brian Joyce - Channel 3 News

source

[TheDarkness]

my opinion is that a rapest of a girl of this age should have his dick cut off... the girl is traumatized for the rest of his life. How can any sentence repent for that?

[Laik]

That sentiment is shared by a lot of people but the thing is that the sentence was wrong. While I can see what he tried to do, other people will only see the bottom line: He is saying the guy should only have sixty days in prison.

While the idea itself makes sense for the most part, the logic in practically letting the guy go does not. People that sexually abuse children are pretty much the hardest people to rehabilitation and tend to return to what they were doing after they get out of prison no matter how much counseling they receive.

This is a bad sentence for a lot of reasons one being that you have people who steal bread going to jail longer. The young girl was raped multiple times, violated so bad that she probably will remain traumatized for the rest of her life. Anything short of twenty-five year minimum would be unjust so sixty days is just straight up crazy.

To sum it up, the judge had the interest of the criminal (him being reformed and returning back to function in soceity) before the victim (the impact the sixty day sentence would have on her along with the fact there is a chance that she could encounter the very man who did this to her very soon) and that is very bad since she needs support the most especially now.

Again, I see what the guy was trying to do but I don't at all think the sentence was fair.

[Eldo]

Rapists will get severely fucked up literally in prison anyway. But I have to agree the sentence was unjust, it can't be an act of remorse or anything. This isn't much for setting an example about the consequences of rape.

[Wandering_Mystic]

I'll play a bit of devil's advocate here, but I'll say for starters that I do indeed also find this crime to be hideous.

I can see the logic and the Judge's intentions pretty clearly as well. I have also long had a problem with the way the US uses their prisons, and I have a problem in general with the idea of punishment for the sake of punishment rather than for Justice (which at times can be very hard to define) or rehabilitation (which in a way still assumes that the society into which one is rehabilitated follows a healthier path; not necessarily the case imo).

Rape is probably seen as a no brainer evil for many, but whenever possible I try to see and understand the ripples behind the waves (in other words, I tend to make my life way more complicated than it needs to be, probably). The complicated part of rape is the torrent of emotions it inevitably stirs up, which often cloud up reason and thought. It is without a doubt a huge tragedy for the victim, who may never really recover emotionally from what happened (nor may the children of such a victim for that matter, the extent of such destruction can be very wide). And yet, I am perhaps removed enough from the experience that I see another damaged person in this crime: the offender.

Just as sending the offender to prison for a long time won't make the victim magically better (or even come close to repairing the damage done to the victim), the prison time in itself will probably not change the offender's ways or heal whatever ill afflicts his mind/soul. (Although I will concede that prison would at least keep the one offender from inflicting further injury to the victim.) I do not want to cease viewing such people as human beings and therefore treat them cruelly out of hate or even disgust, because then I would have to come to grips with a hypocracy that would at that ponit grow in me. How can I condemn on one hand the de-humanization that we inflict on other peoples and cultures in the name of fear, ignorance and supposed self-interest (as we do/did to blacks, muslims, jews, [insert minority or oppressed sub-culture]), and then turn around and de-humanize others because they have commited a rather ugly act? I won't ignore the ugliness, because I acknowledge that however distantly, I am complicit because I am a human and have done nothing (or not enough) to try to prevent such a hideous thing from happening, nor do I have at the moment a reasonably better solution of how to deal with such cases after the fact.

Interstingly for a Berserk fan, I am quite against the idea of revenge being a justifyable motive for inflicting harm on others. In my view, revenge will only lower oneself to the levels of those who first commited injury. I am much more interested in solutions that undo the cycle of revenge and anger completely.

[Libaax]

Revenge has nothing to do with this case, if you commit a crime like this you deserve severe punishment.


The only thing i like about american justice system is that they get 25 years for rape,thats very good cause its scares people away from rape.

I know what a 60 sentene does to,it makes people think rape isnt something to be afraid of.

Here in Sweden the avereage sentence for rape is 6 months,thanks to that we see almost daily someone that gets raped.

[Killfile]

Studies have shown that the deterant of a jail sentence, or even a death sentence, is not of serious importance in the mind of an individual who is seriously considering the commission of a crime.

Why that is speaks volumes towards the Nature v. Nurture debate in pyscology and the concept of the Self and the Other that gets kicked around in the Frankfurt school. Jail sentences serve, primarily, to allow SOCIETY to inflict its own revenge upon those that violate its tenents.

Jail time is not about the revenge of a specific victim, but the revenge of the social order as a whole - which depends upon that cycle of punishment and enforcement to reenforce its role as the guardian of our minds.

This stuff is actually wicked-complicated, and ties into a lot of higher level political and social theory.

Point being that yes - the judge in question here sentenced like an asshat.

More to the point - while the Perp can "rehabilitate" out of prison, how is the little girl going to heal when her rapist is roaming free in two months? Not to belittle child rape - but 11 years old is getting very close to the age where you can no longer easily manipulate children with words. Odds are that some of these were violent rapes. *shudder*

[Libaax]

You dont have to be genius to see that rape cases has more than doubled over here cause only 174 cases of 1267 got jail last year. That gives a clear signal to wannabe rapers,that there isnt anything to worry about.

I wonder what the judge said to justify the 60 days,doesnt he care about the poor girl that has been damaged for life.

Not even here in sweden would this rapest get 60 days.

[Skullkracker]

outrageous

he should have gotten at least for years...in an ass-rape prison

[Tempest]

outrageous

he should have gotten at least for years...in an ass-rape prison

Correction, that's Federal Pound-Me-In-The-Ass Prison.

Yeah, I don't know what this judge was thinking. I could MAYBE see him trying this for someone who had raped ONCE and kinda almost making a little sense. This dude did it over 4 years, is is a habitular criminal, 2 months in jail and some re-hab will do nothing. Oh he may never do it again cause he knows he got off light this time, but his mind will most likely still work in that sick fashion.

In no way would I ever hope someone gets raped, but I wonder how the judge would feel if he gets out and repeats? Then I think his honor should get a little stint in FPMITAP to think about what he has done.

[Wandering_Mystic]

For the victim, the first thing that should be done is to separate her from the offender (as in, sending him somewhere else under supervision). It is not clear to me whether the judge has at least made that precaution, but from the article it seems doubtful. The rest of the recovery process depends on how much strength she has left, and how she is nurtured afterwards. There is a lot that one can try to do and help, but in the end much of it hinges on the victim's ability or even willingness to heal.

Sadly, no matter what the country, rape happens a lot more than many people realize, mostly because you don't just go and broadcast it out to the world (or even to your family, in many cases) when something like this happens to you. The shame and disgrace and disgust that one feels for oneself afterwards is quite a barrier to overcome.

[newbified]

He's a very bad person.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

I think that 60 days is somewhat of a detriment to the family of the child whom he raped for all of those years, and especially to the child herself. Where we as a society may take anger and vengeance out by throwing others in jail, a 60 day sentence for 4 years of emotionally scarring a 7 year old is ludicrous.

Who knows in what profound way he has now had a twisted impact upon this childs life, and if she will ever be able to come to grips and continue her life normally after an episode this traumatic so early in her young life. My guess is she won't, and she'll develop some sort of mental disorder caused by the trauma she's now been dealt. And he gets off with 60 days and some counseling.

Congratulations Edward Cashman. If you weren't planning on retiring already, I hope you enjoy your severance.

First Edit: Also a quick search on Google revealed this:

http://www.petitiononline.com/gocash/

Second Edit: It's also reported that the same young girl whom Hulett molested, was also repeatedly abused by a 33 year old friend of Hulett's who was charged in October and released on bond.

Third Edit: So many edits...anyway. It also appears that Vermonts Speaker of the House Gaye Symington is attempting to block any actions from being taken towards Cashman because of his ruling in this case.

[Sortep]

i must have very primitive ideas.. because i feel an eye for an eye is still just... in the case of a rapist... put him in a prison where he will be on the receiving end... then give him the option to end it all... but i'm not very civilized

[Libaax]

"Judge Cashman also declared that after 25 years, he no longer believes in punishment"

I got this qoute from newbified petition link against Cashman.


I wanna say one thing,why is he still a judge if he doesnt believe in punishment. This means next time he might let a murderer get a sentence like this. Okay hopefully not a sentence like that but similar.

I mean whats the point of a law if you dont punish criminals.

[Tempest]

i must have very primitive ideas.. because i feel an eye for an eye is still just... in the case of a rapist... put him in a prison where he will be on the receiving end... then give him the option to end it all... but i'm not very civilized

That reminds me of a story of a lifer who asked to be put on death row but had his request denied. He then hung himself months later.

We can't let prisoners kill themselves man, that's the prison's systems duty and nobody, not even someone who is for all intensive purposes dead to the world and wishes to die and is costing tax payers money, will take that away from them.

I was always a fan of Starcraft's way of dealing with people on death row/life w/o parolers. Zap their brains and put them in the military.

[arke]

because i feel an eye for an eye is still just

And the whole world would be blind.

not even someone who is for all intensive purposes dead to the world and wishes to die and is costing tax payers money, will take that away from them.

Nitpick: It's "for all intents and purposes."


As Killfile said, strict punishments do not deter crime. Revenge begets revenge, hatred begets hatred. In return for his acts, society gets its revenge on him and never actually fixing the problem, just putting it off for however many years.

Personally, I can see how a judge would be able to see the "punishments don't work" most clearly. We aren't in the court rooms for the Xth repeat offender, trying to find something new that'll work. He, however, is.

[newbified]

I say we just bring back colliseum battles and have them fight to the death for our own sick pleasures.

What? No one else?

And an edit as I hadn't yet seen arke's post as I was making my own.

Violence begets violence yes. As someone who is affected by violence festers with that violence, and has an anger towards the original perpetrator.

However, what other ways do we have of dealing with those who commit violent crimes? In a perfect world, violence wouldn't beget violence as there would be no violence. However in a world filled with violence, what countermeasures do we have to deal with those who commit violent acts?

This 34 year old man, and his 33 year old friend, have more than likely ruined this 11 year old girls life.

I think it's somewhat the price we pay to live in more "civilized" and "politically correct" nations. In third world or underdeveloped nations, some have drastically different ways of handling crime. And in some cases rehabilitate those from their illegal lifestyles. (Source)

The Prophet said, "The hand should be cut off for stealing something that is worth a quarter of a Dinar or more."

Now in a world where your hand is cut off for stealing something worth more than a quarter of a Dinar (1 Dinar equates to about 1.41 USD, so it's for stealing anything above about $.35 US) how many repeat offenders do you think there are? How many repeat offenders would there be if there was say, amputation of important areas of the body for molestation and rape?

Of course that's going off story quite a bit as I'm not saying that said system is better than other said system.

Violence as a response to violence may not always be the right solution, which is why we don't line those convicted of murder in front of a firing squad anymore. The prison system that is established in the United States is actually a far cry from that of other nations that don't have the same standing. Even in Canada where I hail from (although I was originally an american citizen) they spend quite a bit daily on prisoners.

Cost of incarcerating a Federal male prisoner: $199.57 per prisoner/per day
Cost of incarcerating a Federal female prisoner: $316.34 per prisoner/per day
Cost of incarcerating a provincial prisoner: $114.14 per prisoner/per day

These were statistics for 2001-2002 as I in my speediness did not look for anything more recent, as it gives a nice overtone to how much is spent.

So in my opinion, prison is hardly a violent way of punishing those who commit acts such as this. Especially with agencies like Stop Prison Rape (Source) and the Prison Rape Elimination Act (Source). Bother of these agencies strive to stop, and punish those who are found to be forcing sexual acts on those in prison. Making prison more inhabitable.

Anyways, I really don't know where I'm going with this and I seem to be jumping around a lot, so before I move further into my ramblings, I'll call it and say that's enough for now.

"In the world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

[isse-pisse-päron-pung]

Revenge has nothing to do with this case, if you commit a crime like this you deserve severe punishment.


The only thing i like about american justice system is that they get 25 years for rape,thats very good cause its scares people away from rape.

I know what a 60 sentene does to,it makes people think rape isnt something to be afraid of.

Here in Sweden the avereage sentence for rape is 6 months,thanks to that we see almost daily someone that gets raped.

I think it's completely unfair to compare sweden to the u.s when speaking of crimes and judging liibax.

In the u.s you punish people and give them "heavy sentences", something like 10 - 25 years or as in some cases iv'e seen 450 years hehe.

In sweden however our society believes that even the most fucked up person should be given a chance to atone for his crimes. Hence the court would give him a much shorter sentence.

Psycho killers like Thomas Quick is a good example of this. Sure he got an endless rehabilitation and will never ever get out of it. However he gets permission so he can live outside at some points of the year.

My point is that the societies is so different that they aren't comparable. Especially when it comes to judging.

However even if im quite a tolerant person and think most people should be able to repent. That sentence should have been higher than 60 days. It's obviously something wrong with the guy who abuses a child. He should have rehab as long as needed and when he gets free eventually he should be moved as far as possible away from her.

[Wandering_Mystic]

Regardless of how we judge the judge, his sentence was an extremely bold move, especialy regarding such a sensitive and emotionally charged issue. I find it hard to believe he would make such a decision hastily or without some serious consideration (unless he is not quite right in the head, I guess), especially given that he has been on the bench for 25+ years.

[Libaax]

I dont compare im saying that US sytem is good with one thing that i know of for sure and that is how they punish rapers.

Sweden are beyond naive to believe everyone can change and thats why rape isnt as a big crime as it should be here.



Getting only months for rape is not right.

I only took the numbers of rape cases from sweden to show that since you dont get severe punishment for rape in this country,rape cases has become too common here.


Edits by Killfile: Try not to double post - I fixed it for you this time

Edit: Shame when did i double post , i didnt even see that....

[Skullkracker]

one of the functions of punishment is to discourage people from commiting a crime

I get a faint idea of what the judge wants, but does he seriously have to start with THAT guy?

[Wandering_Mystic]

I am pretty perplexed by the judge's choice of timing and sentence too, despite my other posts on the matter. And the things that I have pointed out are only one side that I see, and not necessarily the side on which I stand (I'm not even sure where that is myself half the time.)

[Killfile]

Punishment does not deter the individual criminal - please stop saying that. Down that path are all kinds of really ugly things that we don't (didn't used to?) do in this country.

After all - if the purpose of punishment is to deter - than the greater the punishment the greater the deterrence right? Why AREN'T we cutting people's hands off? Why AREN'T we allowed to torture people in prisons? After all, the worse prisons are, the more of a deterrent they present...right?

Wrong.

Deterrence isn't involved here. What is involved is social conditioning. It is important that we hear that people are punished for crimes. The specific degree of the punishment is more or less irrelevant - so long as punishment occurs. This is important because it reinforces our mental image of what society condones and doesn't condone - of what is right and wrong.

It is this social compass, not the fear of incarceration or other punishments, that keeps us in line. Want proof? Consider this scenario.

You're driving home in the country one night. You come to an intersection with a stop sign. It's dark, no cars in sight, no police cruisers around and it's a tiny little country road anyway.

Yet you stop.

Why? No one is watching you. You KNOW no one is watching you. You probably even thought about it. Yet you stop anyway. The chance of being punished by society for your crime is literally zero, yet you stop.

Why is that?

It's because you're not concerned with the punishment - you're socially conditioned NOT TO BREAK THE RULES.

It's fascinating stuff.

Bottom line is this. By dealing a significantly reduced sentence, this judge gives us the impression that child molesters aren't punished. In other words, the sentence is SO light, SO lenient that we perceive it as non-existent. It would be like staring across a four-way-stop at a cop car and watching some other guy run the stop sign without being pulled.

Wouldn't you start to wonder if stop signed mattered at all?

[Libaax]

As you said in the end of your post if you give a sentence that is soo lenient it gives the impression that child molesters arent punished and thats not good signal.

I dont care if punishment stops crime or not as long as criminals like these get what they deserve.

[Wandering_Mystic]

lol, case in point