Xenosaga III

Website · Post by **BasouKazuma** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:39 am

I know this is kinda old news but i had only found this out a week ago.

They are gonna be ending the Xenosaga series with this upcoming 3rd installment, which i find to be funny. I've only played the first one, but that alone has made me despise the series.

As everyone knows, Xenosaga does a bad job living in Xenogears shadow.

Though, I still hope the 3rd one is gonna be good even if it is very unlikely. The series had so much potential, but they failed in the execution.

Post by **LordMune** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:44 am

I didn't really enjoy the first Xenosaga, but I liked the second one, which apparently makes me unique.

Saga isn't Gears, and I think/hope they have been moving away from that ambition ever since the completion of the first game. I can enjoy them separately, they're different enough games.
It's good to see they're finally ending this, as I am quite tired of over-ambitious projects that are left half-finished (Shenmue, Xenogears, et cetera).

Post by **Femto** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:45 am

The first game was alright but the second one was a terrible game.

I don't care about the series as much as I used to, i.e. at all.

I'll probably buy the third one just out of sheer curiosity though, will probably sell it soon afterwards too.

Website · Post by **BasouKazuma** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:49 am

I would only buy the third one if i hear really good reviews about it. If it actually turns out to be good, I'll have to get the second one first and beat that.

Post by **Femto** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:19 am

LordMune wrote:It's good to see they're finally ending this, as I am quite tired of over-ambitious projects that are left half-finished (Shenmue, Xenogears, et cetera).

I agree with this (shit just doesn't work in video games), but I wouldn't put Xenogears on the same boat.

Yeah, it's part of a huge, 6-chapter storyline, but the game really stands on its own and has its own definite conclusion.

It also happens to have a bigger storyline than both Ep. I and II of Xenosaga combined, so yeah, it's very "complete" IMO, even if there is more to the story.

Post by **Rosiel** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:00 am

Femto wrote:
LordMune wrote:It's good to see they're finally ending this, as I am quite tired of over-ambitious projects that are left half-finished (Shenmue, Xenogears, et cetera).
I agree with this (shit just doesn't work in video games), but I wouldn't put Xenogears on the same boat.

Yeah, it's part of a huge, 6-chapter storyline, but the game really stands on its own and has its own definite conclusion.

It also happens to have a bigger storyline than both Ep. I and II of Xenosaga combined, so yeah, it's very "complete" IMO, even if there is more to the story.

Word. When I first played Gears, I fell in love. The gameplay was nothing special, it was the story. The story made me want to play it more and more. Then i heard news about Xenosaga. I was first overjoyed with this announcement. I thought it was the 6 part series that Xenogears came from. I.E. I thought Xenogears would be Xenosaga episode 5. Sadly, the only thing gears and Saga have in common is the Xeno in their names and the Zypher. (also Shion says, "Ye shall be as gods." the same thing the computer screen showed when Deus was taking over the spaceship in Xenogears intro.) I thought Xenosaga was a mediocore game at best. It was fun for a bit, and a welcomed challenge to rpgs, but it didnt have the soul that Xenogears had. I also couldnt get attached to the characters. I mean, who can forget the doc and Fei, Push it!

Website · Post by **BasouKazuma** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:12 am

How can you say that the gameplay was nothing special? It has one of the most unique battle systems out of all the other turn based RPGs ever created. The integration of mech battles and the whole combo system were fucking genius.

(I do admit that the battle system wasn't perfect though)

That and the impressive story, make it one of my absolute favorite games.

Post by **Femto** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:15 am

Go play it now and try to say the same thing.

It's boring and repetitive, like most RPGs actually.

Website · Post by **BasouKazuma** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:26 am

Femto wrote:Go play it now and try to say the same thing.

It's boring and repetitive, like most RPGs actually.

Yea, that's the problem with the battle system. They should've had more magic and overall attacks. It got repetitive sometimes, i know that. If they had more attacks, the battle system would've been a lot more enjoyable. I still enjoy it, cuz its a nice change from the standard system that most other RPG's use.

Post by **Laik** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:20 am

Xenogears is one of my favorite games so it was only normal that I expected Xenosaga to be of some quality and I was very disappointed. Not because it's a bad game or anything like that but because I expected too much out of it. At best, Xenosaga was average to me and I didn't even feel like playing the games the followed it.

Xenogears had everything I really wanted in a game for real. I mean beating up Gears with your bare hands could give a game an honorable mention but when you have nice, interesting characters along with a story that can easily keep you up for those few more hours just to see what happen then you have a classic.

Xenosaga was just okay. Other than KOS-MOS, the character designs didn't quite land with me as well as the characters from Xenogears did and the fights in the game probably felt more redundant than any other RPG I've ever played. Add my disappointment to that and you can see why I kind of hated the game for a while. It's only a while back that I set aside my personal views and just played the game for what it was.

Sure, all RPG's get a bit boring after a while but I was tired of Xenosaga in a few hours. In the end, I don't mind them doing something different but I honestly wanted it to at least be on par with Xenogears but it just felt like one of the biggest letdowns for a while.

Post by **LordMune** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:26 am

Femto wrote:Go play it now and try to say the same thing.

It's boring and repetitive, like most RPGs actually.

This is tue, and not only because of the battle system. There are long stretches where the game just keeps repeating standard RPG events and twists- the best example of this perhaps being when Fei is imprisoned in that city whateveritsnameis.

Post by **Rosiel** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:14 pm

LordMune wrote:
Femto wrote:Go play it now and try to say the same thing.

It's boring and repetitive, like most RPGs actually.
This is tue, and not only because of the battle system. There are long stretches where the game just keeps repeating standard RPG events and twists- the best example of this perhaps being when Fei is imprisoned in that city whateveritsnameis.

Kislev.

Post by **Ayanami** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:20 pm

I am going to agree with Mune and Femto, the battle system in Xenogears sucks the big one. Button combinations are the most retarded RPG gimmick ever. And the Gear battle system with the feul guage was a joke.

Website · Post by **BasouKazuma** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:46 pm

Ayanami wrote:I am going to agree with Mune and Femto, the battle system in Xenogears sucks the big one. Button combinations are the most retarded RPG gimmick ever. And the Gear battle system with the feul guage was a joke.

So would you rather have had them stick with the simple Attack function like in all the other turn based RPGs?

The combo system for Xenogears was great and innovative, but it didnt have enough variety in the other battle aspects (like magic). If Xenogears' battle system sucks, then so does all of the battle systems for the Final Fantasy games.

You have to compare the battle system to others in it's genre. So i say it's a great battle system cuz most other games have the same old simplistic RPG battle system while the guys behind Xenogears ventured off into creating an all new battle system that i enjoyed using.

Post by **Femto** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:54 pm

BasouKazuma wrote:If Xenogears' battle system sucks, then so does all of the battle systems for the Final Fantasy games.

They suck as well.

Turn-based, menu-driven RPGs are not for real gamers because lack the fun factor, manueverability and skill involved in almost every other genre.

You're limited to selecting commands and pressing buttons and no matter how many spins you put around that formula, that's all you're getting.

No skill, not timing, no "mastering the controls," just plain old repetition.

I'm not saying RPGs are bad, I just don't consider them "games" in every sense of the word.

Website · Post by **BasouKazuma** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:02 pm

Yea, i kinda eluded to the fact that turn based battle systems generally suck in principle.

I've always wanted there to be more action in grand RPGs like that. Xenogears, at least has more action than other turn based RPGs.

Post by **Ayanami** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:47 pm

How about instead of relying on the biggest baddest button combination to win a battle, you actually put in strategy and had to take in mind a monster's weakness to a certain element or status effect like in the Shin Megumi Tensei games?

Post by **Femto** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:53 pm

Ayanami wrote:How about instead of relying on the biggest baddest button combination to win a battle, you actually put in strategy and had to take in mind a monster's weakness to a certain element or status effect like in the Shin Megumi Tensei games?

Yeah, Digital Devil Saga, despite it's simplicity and reliance on heavy memorization, is one of the better turn based RPGs I've played lately.

It harshly punishes you for screwing up and it rewards you for using the correct attacks.

Seminal video game stuff right there.

Post by **Ayanami** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:03 am

I am not a heavy RPGer like I used to be. Used to be my favorite genre. But you grow really old of them after a while. The genre is just not as good as other genres out there. Shin Megumi Tensei and Dragon Quest VIII are the only RPGs worth playing for me right now.

Post by **Tempest** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:04 am

Femto wrote:
Ayanami wrote:How about instead of relying on the biggest baddest button combination to win a battle, you actually put in strategy and had to take in mind a monster's weakness to a certain element or status effect like in the Shin Megumi Tensei games?
Yeah, Digital Devil Saga, despite it's simplicity and reliance on heavy memorization, is one of the better turn based RPGs I've played lately.

It harshly punishes you for screwing up and it rewards you for using the correct attacks.

Seminal video game stuff right there.

That and status effects actually do something in Shin Megami, meaning you have to plan accordingly for battles. i hate how in almost every other RPG you can just shrug off poison or anything else. In DDS, God help you if you weren't in perfect health.

Post by **Ayanami** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:06 am

Tempest wrote:That and status effects actually do something in Shin Megami, meaning you have to plan accordingly for battles. i hate how in almost every other RPG you can just shrug off poison or anything else. In DDS, God help you if you weren't in perfect health.

Yeah, all the more reason why Shin Megami Tensei has good gameplay and Xenogears and Saga do not.

Post by **Rosiel** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:31 am

Tempest wrote:
Femto wrote:
Ayanami wrote:How about instead of relying on the biggest baddest button combination to win a battle, you actually put in strategy and had to take in mind a monster's weakness to a certain element or status effect like in the Shin Megumi Tensei games?

Yeah, Digital Devil Saga, despite it's simplicity and reliance on heavy memorization, is one of the better turn based RPGs I've played lately.

It harshly punishes you for screwing up and it rewards you for using the correct attacks.

Seminal video game stuff right there.

That and status effects actually do something in Shin Megami, meaning you have to plan accordingly for battles. i hate how in almost every other RPG you can just shrug off poison or anything else. In DDS, God help you if you weren't in perfect health.

Oh god yes. When poor Seraph was confused, the fight was over. He would pwn my two other chars and then try to kill the boss. (of course he would fail miserablely and You become familiar to the game over screen) I am this close to beating DDS 1, I have two, dying to play it. When I poped in two, it asked if i had data from one. (i was excited, thought there was some cool bonus for me) Sadly, all that was there was harder difficulty. Real good, like I wanna make a hard game harder. I am terriblely fond of gears though brother, and you should try to approach it like a book. Forget the poop battle system and all that jazz. I know you have heard this from me for about a year now, but its the story bro! The story!

Post by **Ayanami** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:37 am

Rosiel wrote:Forget the poop battle system and all that jazz. I know you have heard this from me for about a year now, but its the story bro! The story!

And that is my problem with RPGs. I play a game to play a game. The story is a bonus. If a great game has a great story, then sweet, if a crap game has a sweet story, then why didn't they just make it into an anime or movie or a book. What ever, a lot of people tell me to play the damn game all the way through. But it is tough because I played it about 20 hours in and I find it hard to pick the game back up and try to go through that same 20 hours again.

Post by **Femto** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:40 am

Ayanami wrote:And that is my problem with RPGs. I play a game to play a game. The story is a bonus. If a great game has a great story, then sweet, if a crap game has a sweet story, then why didn't they just make it into an anime or movie or a book. What ever, a lot of people tell me to play the damn game all the way through. But it is tough because I played it about 20 hours in and I find it hard to pick the game back up and try to go through that same 20 hours again.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Preach it on mister!

Post by **Ayanami** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:55 am

Femto wrote:Preach it on mister!

You know how I do.

But any who, there are other things in a game that can salvage it. Take Dragon Quest VIII for example. Some say the simplicity and old school system hurts it. But they are fools.

The real reason why Dragon Quest VIII is better than most RPGs is because of the difficulty, core gameplay, and the most amazing presentation evar. If Xenogears had the presentation that DQ8 has, then I could play it. If it had the core gameplay that DQ8 has, then I could play it. But it does not. The 2D sprites in Xenogears look horrible and the 3D backgrounds are not much either. I mean, look at the menus, they look like garbage. DQ8 on the other hand, every little detail is done perfectly, and the animation on all the monsters and their death animations are far more inspireing than any thing in Final Fantasy. The world is huge in DQ8, it really brings you back to the original mind set of RPGs where you had to explore on your own to find all the goodies and what not. After certain point, they stop laying things out right in front of you and expect you to find out where to go next. You don't get that in new RPGs, you just get this linear story that is usually like in FFs case lame as hell. This also the same reason why FF6 is superior to every other FF. In the world of ruin, you had no direction at all, you did what you wanted, you could have went and fought Kefka at his tower soon as you got the airship. You didn't have to find every character and every final technique for those characters, it was for you to find out and get.

Any who, I think I am done ranting now.