Chapters 256/257/258

Post by **RedEyes** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:38 am

Guts fought Griffith to get his freedom back from him. He wanted to leave the Griffith's group. Serpico fought Guts to keep Farnese away from Guts' group.

From Serpico's point of view this fight was unavoidable. He had to stop Guts, because he thinks that Farnese might return to the group if Guts speaks with her.

Post by **Skullkracker** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:09 pm

The_Paya wrote:
Sure. Think about Guts leaving, Griffith wanted him to stay. Now there is Serpico (and Farnese) leaving and (maybe, just maybe) Guts wants them to stay. Kinda the old fight happens again, but, this time, the one in Griffith place is Guts.

(edit: fixed a phew more 't')

kinda like the mirror image of that old event

Post by **Dark_Zilo** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:30 pm

RedEyes wrote:Guts fought Griffith to get his freedom back from him. He wanted to leave the Griffith's group. Serpico fought Guts to keep Farnese away from Guts' group.

From Serpico's point of view this fight was unavoidable. He had to stop Guts, because he thinks that Farnese might return to the group if Guts speaks with her.

you all know what a few words from our hero can do...

Post by **Eldo** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:36 pm

Welcome back.

Post by **Khelegond** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:02 pm

Brainpiercing wrote:The fight was to reassure Serpico that Guts wouldn't lose to the rage and kill Farnese, although only Shierke can really prevent that. Schierke also alleviated his doubt.

I don't think he was trying to "tease" Guts and see if he could hold his rage. I think he was trying to kill Guts or at least seeing if he could hold Guts.

He was simply dumbfold against Guts. He now is hopeless, if Guts get into Berserk in the armor, and Schierke can't hold him, they're all dead.

I would be scared to death too, you know?

Cheers,

Khelegond

Post by **Libaax** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:50 pm

Who cares what Serpico was trying to do since it didnt work and i dont see how it is similer to Guts fight with Griffith when he left the hawks.

Also welcome back Zilo.

Post by **Khelegond** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:58 pm

Yeah, I don't see any similarities either Libaax. I simply think he was trying to let Farneze life flows on the right path, without Gatts interfering.

But the Gatts we all know and love just shove him aside, and marked his life forever (well, that "boink" on the head with the Dragon Slayer must have marked him forever lol)

Cheers,

Khelegond

Post by **Libaax** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:01 pm

I couldn't believe how naive Serpico was for thinking couple rocks could take down Guts,a guy that has been almost beaten to death so many times by apostles that are so much strong than some big rocks.....

Post by **MrFelony** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:31 pm

he is referring to the first fight they had, not the last i believe. and i see how it makes sense. guts wants farnese so she can take care of casca, but serpico doesn't want to join up with Guts. in that sense he is fighting to not join the group much like Guts fought to not join the hawks. and Guts fighting for similar reason to Griffith's.

Post by **Skullkracker** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:12 pm

Serp seemed rather afraid that Guts might kill Farnaze in his rage.

Post by **Iemander** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:21 pm

Well, let's get a few things straight.

1) Guts cares for Farnese, but isn't hellbent on forcefully taking her out of that place.

2) Serpico is afraid of Guts.

3) Serpico knows Farnese likes being with the gang.

I don't think Serpico minds being with Guts, he's just scared for Farnese. I don't think it's just Guts either, Farnese has always been in "good care", and this is the first real time she's been in any serious danger. I just think Serpico doesn't want Guts to actually show his face up there and give Farnese the dilemma between her safehouse and Guts.

Post by **DarkenRahlX** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:26 pm

Farnese actually wants to stay, but she made a deal to get the ship for her friends. I don't thnk Guts really cares whether or not Serpico stays. This fight is nothing like the time Guts fought Griffith. Guts fought because he wanted out of the Band of the Hawks. Serpico is fighting to keep Farnese from rejoining with them.

I just want to say that it feels good to have Berserk placed as the #1 best rated Japanese comic at Anime News Network. I think I'm going to register there just so I can give Berserk a 10.

Post by **Sandman** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:37 pm

DarkenRahlX wrote:Farnese actually wants to stay, but she made a deal to get the ship for her friends. I don't thnk Guts really cares whether or not Serpico stays. This fight is nothing like the time Guts fought Griffith. Guts fought because he wanted out of the Band of the Hawks. Serpico is fighting to keep Farnese from rejoining with them.

Very good point...... I think that Guts enjoys Serpico's company especally when he was dealing with the Kelpe, but he needs Farnase to watch Casca he doesnt need much else from her.......except maybe a good roll in the hay, you know she wants it

Post by **TheDrizzit** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:14 pm

hehehe roll roll roll in ze hay....sorry couldn't resist... ^_^

Post by **Iemander** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:51 pm

Sandman wrote:
DarkenRahlX wrote:Farnese actually wants to stay, but she made a deal to get the ship for her friends. I don't thnk Guts really cares whether or not Serpico stays. This fight is nothing like the time Guts fought Griffith. Guts fought because he wanted out of the Band of the Hawks. Serpico is fighting to keep Farnese from rejoining with them.
Very good point...... I think that Guts enjoys Serpico's company especally when he was dealing with the Kelpe, but he needs Farnase to watch Casca he doesnt need much else from her.......except maybe a good roll in the hay, you know she wants it

Imo it's a pretty safe bet that Guts genuinly cares about his crew just like he did with the band of the Hawk. And Guts <> Serpico, I can't imagine Guts disliking Serpico, Serpico being in his eyes a very skilled fighter. I don't think there's anything that would get more praise from Guts than that.

Post by **|||||||** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:27 pm

I'd also say that these kinds of fights, where guts fights against strong (human) opponents, like now with Serpico is what guts was wishing for before the eclipse... improving his swordmanship, crossing blades to extreme - he really enjoys that...

Post by **TheDrizzit** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:20 am

Is it just me or is Serpico the first "skilled human fighter" that Guts has faced since Bosconge? (sp). Seems to me all he faces now are worthless humans, monsters, and apostles....damn eclipse...so good just to be so bad...^_^

Post by **J2 Cool** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:54 am

Well, you have to think, the apostles are basically all cowards, granted power. They use the power foolishly to show their might. Power is what they lacked in life and were granted by godhands. Most never ammounted to anything as a human. So it seems so many meet their match unknowingly in Guts, who is powerful, smart, passionate.. All of a sudden they are reduced to worthlessness at his feet.

Someone like Serpico though is very smart, a good fighter, a strategist. He gave Guts a bit of a challenge, though Guts is still damn near unstoppable. It makes sense though for someone like Serpico to give Guts a good fight. Meanwhile, it's a rarity for an apostle to give Guts a real challenge. It takes someone with honor like Zodd or some of those high ranked beasts at Griffith's side.

Post by **Artezul** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:52 am

TheDrizzit wrote:Is it just me or is Serpico the first "skilled human fighter" that Guts has faced since Bosconge? (sp). Seems to me all he faces now are worthless humans, monsters, and apostles....damn eclipse...so good just to be so bad...^_^

You forget the most powerful Azan the Bridge Knight!

J2 Cool wrote:It takes someone with honor like Zodd or some of those high ranked beasts at Griffith's side.

I wouldn't call Zodd honorable. Maybe respectful.

Post by **MrFelony** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:23 am

too lazy to read all the posts this late so just gonna go off of first few responses. serpico is fighting because he wants (farnese) to leave guts group. same reason why guts fought to leave the hawks. in this scenarios, farnese and serpico are as good as the same person in my mind...i mean they embraced naked and that's good enough for me

. Guts is fighting because he wants Farnese back, and that also entails getting serpico back, who was a great help in many different battles. guts, like Griffith, wanted to see farnese (like griffith wanted to see guts) before she (he) officially left, however, it had to result in a physical confrontation between serpico and guts (guts and griffith). it is similar, dint make me cite shit to prove it i just know it is

. and trust me i will pull shit out of my ass

.

okay fine i am gonna go through with this. the reason why i say farnese and serpico are basically equivalent to one person, and representative of guts during the old hawk, is because all the similarities are there. the difference is that each person represents a different side of guts. farnese represents the more emotional and feminine side of guts, but also the passionate side. where serpico represents the more battle oriented and tactical side of old guts. i admit the hardest thing to get to match up between the two is guts passion and intensity in battle and life, which serpico lacks. however, when I actually look at it deeper, Guts back then was a very much like serpico. serpico took whatever shit life threw at him much like guts did. When Guts fought, it gave him a time to think, and when I think about it, he seems very calm and collected at times. you see hm having all those inner monologues. however, during the times where he isn't calm and collected, that's where farnese comes into play. her propensities towards passionate insanity mirrors in a way guts own rage and passion at life, both resulting from a distant, if not abusive father.

Ill stop there. but the situation, in my eyes, is very much a like. and the way i see it going, guts is turning into his own version of griffith.

I thought/believed that all the top apostles like grunbeld and zodd were once powerful and legendary warriors who probably died on the battlefield and didn't want to give up life or wanted to save something, or w/e reason they became apostles for. the level of power an apostle wields would make sense to be equivalent to what they had in their previous life

sorry for the long post

Post by **J2 Cool** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:06 am

Artezul wrote:I wouldn't call Zodd honorable. Maybe respectful.

I would call him honorable, as a warrior anyway. He has a had a grudge with SKull Knight for many ages but has never backed down and never acted cowardly. He never acted out in stupidity like other apostles either. He took down the first apostle Guts meets when he refused to leave as well. Also, when Guts came out of the eclipse, it was Zodd who allowed the fight to stop in honor of this young man's great luck(or bad luck as he reconsiders). He also is Griffith's right hand man, much like Guts used to be. Doing whatever duty Griffith asks of him, protecting him.. I'd even argue he's as honorable as Guts was while in the Band of the Hawk, from a certain perspective.

Post by **Joeki** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:32 am

I agree with J2Cool here. He is by far the only respectable non Human ( along with our friend Skull Knight of course ) that I have seen in this manga.

He is similar to Gattsu in many ways. He lives for the fight , to wield his sword , now he uses his sword to serve Griffith. He killed that apostle who didn't have any honor , gave Gattsu a weapon when he was unarmed against Boscogne...

I think he gets my respect .

Post by **Libaax** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:17 am

Yeah Zodd is more honorable than most humans in Berserk.

Post by **MrFelony** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:56 pm

well a lot of this stuff he did to preserve Griffith's chance of becoming a God Hand. If he didnt give guts that sword, griffith probably would have died that day. Though i also think Zodd wouldnt have wanted to see the two humans who could actually hurt him die before he had a second chance at battle with them

. I dont think that the apostle would have been able to come back to kill them all but you never know... but i still agree he is honorable on the battle field.

Post by **Iemander** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:33 pm

I've got a few gripes with Zodd. His "Can't fight!?? Now I'll need to tear your limbs off!!!" thing is a tad dishonorable

.

Fate decided Guts would be the cause of Griffith's decline. If Guts had died that day, Griffith might have just given up his dream.