About Griffith...

Post by **dos.azn** » Sun May 01, 2005 10:31 pm

wtf he said that? thas it, when that terrorist bastard comes back, hes gonna get a supreme flaming

Post by **zodd4271** » Sun May 01, 2005 11:31 pm

I think that Gutts and the Skull Knight may still be bound to fate. Although, the Godhand say that they hadn't foreseen something, they don't know everything that will happen. When Gutts and Caska are saved in the eclipse the Godhand acknowledge this fact. I think that the power of the Idea is so great that one can't escape it. The Idea says to Griffith when he becomes Femto do as you will because your will will be my will (I'm paraphrasing). This is where the Idea's true power lies in my opinion, he creates situations where no matter what you do you will do his will. He created Griffith and the historical situations that allow him to be. Unless there is some higher power than the Idea (who would probably be the real god not caused by man) or fate is an illusion, I think that Gutts and the Skull Knight are bound to fate.

Post by **Starnum** » Mon May 02, 2005 12:37 am

Well, I think that Gatts is outside of Idea's control. That is why SK calls him the struggler. However, I wouldn't be surprised if SK himself were still within the flows of destiny.

Post by **Arresty** » Mon May 02, 2005 12:54 am

I am pretty sure SK is still bound by destiny, because he talks about it so much, and seems to act as though it is what is limiting him. So I think he is, but Guts I believe is outside of the Ideas control.

Post by **Starnum** » Mon May 02, 2005 12:55 am

Right, that's what I was thinking as well.

Post by **zodd4271** » Mon May 02, 2005 2:09 am

Think about it, even if Gutts is outside the boundaries of fate and everyone else is bound to fate, by controlling them you control the circumstances that Gutts will face. So, the Idea can account and control everything that Gutts is faced with and knowing the possible outcomes create circumstances where Gutts' actions are the Idea's will. That's my theory for what its worth.

Post by **Sortep** » Mon May 02, 2005 2:15 am

i feel that skullknight is bound by fate... this is already general consensus... also i think skullknight sees in guts a means to defy fate because though guts isn't bound by fate but can still be influenced by idea and godhand through those who are... so if skull knight limits his involvment with guts (thus limiting fate) but still arms guts appropriately he feels he can take a hand in defying it... hence why he has saved guts several times... because guts was destined to die beneath his mother's body and was considered dead by the spiritual world... even more so when he became branded and survived... so as was earlier said... guts is skullknight's joker in the hand he was dealt

Post by **Arresty** » Mon May 02, 2005 2:21 am

The idea can set up situations for Guts to be in but not the outcome. He has no control over what Guts does, where ge goes, who he sees. He just has to try and have certain eventds set up to hope it causes Guts to do something he wants him too. But because Guts is who he is, he also changes the fate of those around him. Even though the Idea can put people in situations around him, he can't control how they will come out since Guts has an equal play in the outcome.

Post by **Starnum** » Mon May 02, 2005 2:21 am

zodd4271 wrote:Think about it, even if Gutts is outside the boundaries of fate and everyone else is bound to fate, by controlling them you control the circumstances that Gutts will face. So, the Idea can account and control everything that Gutts is faced with and knowing the possible outcomes create circumstances where Gutts' actions are the Idea's will. That's my theory for what its worth.

Well, you have a good point. However, I don't think Idea can predict Gatts. He thought Gatts would die in the eclipse, and that didn't happen. That's why Gatts is the struggler, he defies certain doom. Idea can only anticipate. That's my theory anyway *shrugs*.

Post by **Sortep** » Mon May 02, 2005 2:23 am

i'd like to see the manga end with fate loosing control over man... okay girlfriend is nagging.. i gotta go

Post by **zodd4271** » Mon May 02, 2005 2:43 am

I think that the Idea would have destroyed Gutts if he had no control over him (insert smackdown of the Godhand). But perhaps the Idea hopes to control Gutts though the Behelit or perhaps Griffith's grand scheme involves Gutts as an important player?

Post by **dos.azn** » Mon May 02, 2005 4:17 am

Buzkashi wrote:I was on DP since last june.... But I thought it was him cause he came by and said he was the one who did it.

talkin bout this?

i made this one, not that fuckin terrorist

Post by **Starnum** » Mon May 02, 2005 4:18 am

Yeah, I'm thinking it was Dos who made that.

Post by **Necromancer** » Mon May 02, 2005 9:08 pm

Never saw it before, cool thing.

Post by **Sandman** » Tue May 03, 2005 7:49 pm

So Griffith is now a half God Hand, half Demonic human, anyone think how this would be if the Egg Apostle wouldn't have taken Guts baby? Fusion with the baby has got to give Griffith a weak spot some where down the road

Post by **Tempest** » Tue May 03, 2005 8:03 pm

Sandman wrote:So Griffith is now a half God Hand, half Demonic human, anyone think how this would be if the Egg Apostle wouldn't have taken Guts baby? Fusion with the baby has got to give Griffith a weak spot some where down the road

I believe that if the Egg hadn't fused with the baby, Griffith would have never been reborn in the first place. I think the demon child made it possible for Griffith to be brought into the real world.

Post by **Necromancer** » Tue May 03, 2005 9:25 pm

Maybe Griffith took his own semen with which he made it demon looking from the baby to get new life out of it. That sounds somehow weired but it would explain the babys recent human body.

Post by **Sandman** » Tue May 03, 2005 10:13 pm

That could be why on the beach the wierd kid stop Guts from killing his crew. If you look at it Scheike was not even close from pulling guts from his rage. But how did the kid get to Guts's get to his inner rage? So maybe they have an inner bond?

Post by **Arresty** » Wed May 04, 2005 2:32 am

No matter how impossible it is that kid is there kid.

I won't agree to anything else. Somehow that kid is there kid.

Post by **dos.azn** » Wed May 04, 2005 2:57 am

i think not motherpucker!

Post by **Sandman** » Wed May 04, 2005 4:19 pm

So if Griffith is "God" than the Emperor of Kushan must be the "Devil".

Post by **zodd4271** » Wed May 04, 2005 7:29 pm

Sandman wrote:So if Griffith is "God" than the Emperor of Kushan must be the "Devil".

What the hell are you talking about?
As far as we know, the Idea is God whose servant is Griffith and the Kushan emperor is just a greedy Apostle (crack is bad for the brain, don't do it).

Post by **Tempest** » Wed May 04, 2005 7:37 pm

Yeah. The Idea of Evil is "God" and Griffith is part the the "God Hand", the highests servants of "God". The emporer is just a regular Apostle, so he should be subserviant to Griffith, but he is not.

Post by **Sandman** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:04 pm

You would think that if that there was a "God" there would be an opposite, not just some disgruntled Apostle, and I think that the Emperor would be it.

Crack has been good to me, not like that F'n heroine.

Just kidding

Post by **psi29a** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:44 pm

Sandman wrote:You would think that if that there was a "God" there would be an opposite, not just some disgruntled Apostle, and I think that the Emperor would be it.

So if Griffith is "God" than the Emperor of Kushan must be the "Devil".

Sorry, but that is just flawed thinking. Since when does there need to be an opposite? Is there an equal opposing force to the Christian God, or the Islamic God? The answer to that is no. You may say the "Devil" but you would be wrong, after all Lucifer was the most loved angel. Even after being cast down, the Devil will be no greater than that of an angel and thus has no way to being equal to "God".

So, in summation. Idea of Evil == "God" or the "Great Mover" of the Berserk Universe. Kushan Emperor may or may not be an Apostle, but is pretty darn crazy. Griffith is the human incarnation of Femto which is considered opposable thumb of the god-hand.