Berserk 305 - Foundation

[turkey]

Well Eldo,

When I said I was on Griffith's side, I really mean that I sympathize with him. I really don't know if Femto and Griffith are the same person, I consider the possibility that Griffitdied back there at the Eclipse, with the rest of the BoH. Though, the being now, may very well be Griffith. I don't know. Everyone thinks Femto-Griffith to be the 'bad' guy in this whole thing; however, I can't be so sure of that. He was a pretty good guy before Guts ran out on him. I don't really side with him, I just don't loathe him as the bad guy. If anything, I think Guts could just as well be called the 'bad' guy. That is more realistic, imo.

The one thing that I think maybe some people don't realize, is that Guts still has sentiments towards Griffith. He both hates him, and still loves him (not romantically). He might struggle with this sometimes because it's hard to completely hate someone who you cared fairly deeply for in the past.

And I agree that the demon dog is a manifestation of his urges to do battle and kill. I think this demon dog that is now with him, was always with him, as a part of his personality, though, up until now it wasn't so powerful

I just see a man who is solely responsible for the brutal killings of many many people and creatures. I think to myself, can you really say he doesn't enjoy this? I don't think he was to evil that he could just enjoy killing anyone, at least not until he was fitted with the berserker armor, but I think he i somewhat of a loner - evident by his aversion to the peaceful part of the story when the BoH finally established itself in society and there were no more battles to be fought. The only thing that would really make him consider dropping this habit is of course Caska. He defines his existence by separating himself from the world around him, and creating himself into something that society may loathe, or at least he would like that

I bet you when he was the 'Black Swordsmen' and was hunting down apostles, he was having the most fun he has ever had. He doesn't like to be the good guy, but then again, sometimes he doesn't like to be the bad guy either.

Or at least this from what I can tell.

I really am not trying to see things as black and white, though. Guts never asked for the Eclipse to happen, but then again, I don't think he has ever really wished for it to not of happened. He is unreal in his ability to end lives, this undoubtedly would en grain a sense of god-like power in him. This is something that lets him dominate the world around him.

Can you really say that a man such as this, that can win battle and kill with such ease as he doe (and has on many occasions) NOT enjoy the killing, and even perhaps, the suffering of others?

i think he does, but this doesn't necessarily mean this defines him. He really loves Caska, I think. He doesn't hate the others traveling with him, either. In fact, he probably enjoys their company, but he still doesn't see himself as that person. He knows that he is an excellent killer, and he probably revels in the thought. He has constantly tried to improve on his skill in battle, and he never accepts defeat. Maybe this is why Zodd is so fond of him.

[Starnum]

Heh, well I think Gatts does enjoy killing monsters sometimes. However, calling one of the darkest periods in his life, while he was all alone and seeking revenge, as one of the most enjoyable times of his life, I can't help but disagree. It would be more like a neutral period almost, as he would have been caught in a torrent of emotions to far complex to say he felt only one way. Despite the rush of killing and victory, at the end of the day revenge doesn't make you feel any better. You know even now after all the killing, he's still all torn up on the inside. So anyway, I think despite his joy for the hunt, his greatest challenge, and thus greatest pride, would be to overcome it all. He can't help but enjoy it at times, it's the world he lives in, probably where he feels the most at home, on the battlefield. However, that doesn't mean he can't still be a good man. It doesn't matter what other people think, it's his own code, and that just so happens to include exterminating monsters, heh.

[The Herald]

Gaiseric would most likely be based on Carl the Great who united the French and expanded it's border over the central parts of Europe which would make France the equal term of MIDLAND, While Chudor would be based on German Emperor States, that resisted and got conquered later on.

Chuder = Tudor (in direct Japanese translation) = England (Tudor was the infamous royal house that Henry VII and VIII and Elisabeth I were from).

I don't know why I said Schierke, because the one that needs to have some shit happen to him is Ishidro (and maybe Roderick) because everyone else has: Caska was raped during the Great Eclipse; Farnese was possessed by a ghost; Serpico was forced to burn his own mother; Schierke had to deal with Flora burning alive; and Guts, well, his whole fucking life really. If Ishidro got ass-raped he'd be even more on the road to becoming the second black swordsman (I always thought he was kind of like a kid version of Guts). Though, he'll be really short his whole life.

[Eldo]

I'll admit that I can't go into detail as much as I want to, because I don't have the time, gah.

Well Eldo,

When I said I was on Griffith's side, I really mean that I sympathize with him. I really don't know if Femto and Griffith are the same person, I consider the possibility that Griffitdied back there at the Eclipse, with the rest of the BoH. Though, the being now, may very well be Griffith. I don't know. Everyone thinks Femto-Griffith to be the 'bad' guy in this whole thing; however, I can't be so sure of that. He was a pretty good guy before Guts ran out on him. I don't really side with him, I just don't loathe him as the bad guy. If anything, I think Guts could just as well be called the 'bad' guy. That is more realistic, imo.

The one thing that I think maybe some people don't realize, is that Guts still has sentiments towards Griffith. He both hates him, and still loves him (not romantically). He might struggle with this sometimes because it's hard to completely hate someone who you cared fairly deeply for in the past.

I don't think that Griffith was that great a guy. Guts was not at fault here for leaving the group. He was not directly responsible for the duel, Griffith was. He was possessive and didn't want anyone to leave him. Guts was the first person to do that. Griffith's downfall was as a result of his own actions, with Guts as the catalyst.

And I agree that the demon dog is a manifestation of his urges to do battle and kill. I think this demon dog that is now with him, was always with him, as a part of his personality, though, up until now it wasn't so powerful

I see we have different interpretations. That's fine, everything is open to interpretation. My own interpretation is that the 'demon dog' does not have its own conscious thought to 'grow'.

I just see a man who is solely responsible for the brutal killings of many many people and creatures. I think to myself, can you really say he doesn't enjoy this? I don't think he was to evil that he could just enjoy killing anyone, at least not until he was fitted with the berserker armor, but I think he i somewhat of a loner - evident by his aversion to the peaceful part of the story when the BoH finally established itself in society and there were no more battles to be fought. The only thing that would really make him consider dropping this habit is of course Caska. He defines his existence by separating himself from the world around him, and creating himself into something that society may loathe, or at least he would like that

I bet you when he was the 'Black Swordsmen' and was hunting down apostles, he was having the most fun he has ever had. He doesn't like to be the good guy, but then again, sometimes he doesn't like to be the bad guy either.

Or at least this from what I can tell.

I really am not trying to see things as black and white, though. Guts never asked for the Eclipse to happen, but then again, I don't think he has ever really wished for it to not of happened. He is unreal in his ability to end lives, this undoubtedly would en grain a sense of god-like power in him. This is something that lets him dominate the world around him.

Can you really say that a man such as this, that can win battle and kill with such ease as he doe (and has on many occasions) NOT enjoy the killing, and even perhaps, the suffering of others?

i think he does, but this doesn't necessarily mean this defines him. He really loves Caska, I think. He doesn't hate the others traveling with him, either. In fact, he probably enjoys their company, but he still doesn't see himself as that person. He knows that he is an excellent killer, and he probably revels in the thought. He has constantly tried to improve on his skill in battle, and he never accepts defeat. Maybe this is why Zodd is so fond of him.

I agree that Guts does enjoy killing, but not necessarily equate to enjoying the suffering of others, or even turn out to be 'worse than Wyald'. Yes, Guts is a pretty badass monster. But I think that's it. I think he'll turn out more like Zodd than Wyald, if I absolutely must give an example based on an Apostle. Guts went hunting for Apostles not necessarily for sport, but also because he wanted to get away with taking care of Casca and escape responsibility. His actions were completely aimless and let's be honest, he didn't know what he was accomplishing; he was striking blindly in hope that it would lead to Griffith.

[yupachups]

Just wanna to mention that while being covered by the "holy" light, guts' hair is no more white.

[The Prince]

The one thing that I think maybe some people don't realize, is that Guts still has sentiments towards Griffith. He both hates him, and still loves him (not romantically). He might struggle with this sometimes because it's hard to completely hate someone who you cared fairly deeply for in the past.

Did Gut's tell you this personally?

.......Because from what I read (since the events of the eclipse), other than the fact that the entire premise of the story up till now has been Guts' struggle to maintain his humanity admist an obsession for vengeance (toward Griffith) that has had him (allegorically) wallowing through the depths of hell just to get his hands on.......Guts couldn't care less about Griffith.

[Aetherfukz]

I'm with Prince on this one. Guts definitely has nothing but pure hate towards Griffith now. Pure unadulterated hate. The only time Guts - to quote "for a second, forgot to kill him" was upon seeing him descent after the second eclipse, not as Femto, but as the Griffith he knew. But after that splitsecond he realized that this is not the Griffith he knew. This is only the target of his loathe, nothing else.

[Istvan]

I'm with Prince on this one. Guts definitely has nothing but pure hate towards Griffith now. Pure unadulterated hate. The only time Guts - to quote "for a second, forgot to kill him" was upon seeing him descent after the second eclipse, not as Femto, but as the Griffith he knew. But after that splitsecond he realized that this is not the Griffith he knew. This is only the target of his loathe, nothing else.

I'm in basic agreement, although I wouldn't say nothing but "pure hate;" I'd say he also feels extreme pain and a sense of betrayal, as well as some elements of grief. Of course, all of this just goes to fuel his rage and hate, but they are important elements to his character. I think Schierk comments on this when she is talking about why Guts hates Griffith so much (when she's trying to help him with the Berserk armor).

[tim]

And I agree that the demon dog is a manifestation of his urges to do battle and kill. I think this demon dog that is now with him, was always with him, as a part of his personality, though, up until now it wasn't so powerful

i kind of agree, in one of the earlier chapters (pre eclipse) caska calls guts "nothing but a mad dog" and he instantly freaks out and smacks her.

[The Herald]

It might have something to do with his childhood. Gambino was constantly coddling his pet dog, and one of the first bumps on the road to Guts' survival after he had killed Gambino was a pack of wolves. Dogs are very important symbolism in Berserk.

[geroprog]

next chapter will be out 9-25!!!!

[The Herald]

You mean after the one that's set to release on Friday? I'm confused, and a little saddened, does this mean that we're going to have a Berserk-less summer?

[Istvan]

You mean after the one that's set to release on Friday? I'm confused, and a little saddened, does this mean that we're going to have a Berserk-less summer?

That would suck, but sadly wouldn't be all that unusual. It's to the point where I've almost come to expect such long breaks.

[citanuzuki666]

You mean after the one that's set to release on Friday? I'm confused, and a little saddened, does this mean that we're going to have a Berserk-less summer?

yes, after the one released on Friday. Like stated before, the next release will be September 25th. I peaked at the raws myself. It shouldn't take long for EG to translate because there isn't much dialogue.

[The Herald]

that should be reserved for spoilers ... grr

[War Machine]

yes, after the one released on Friday. Like stated before, the next release will be September 25th.

This is divine retribution in its purest form. The almighty Miura is punishing us for our squalid behavior and not sacrificing noobs in His name on each day of release like instructed in the holy scriptures. Repent for the days of solemn prayer be upon us, and only after having pled forgiveness all through these times of darkness will His wrath subside and His empyreal rending be spread throughout the land once more.

[Istvan]

yes, after the one released on Friday. Like stated before, the next release will be September 25th.

This is divine retribution in its purest form. The almighty Miura is punishing us for our squalid behavior and not sacrificing noobs in His name on each day of release like instructed in the holy scriptures. Repent for the days of solemn prayer be upon us, and only after having pled forgiveness all through these times of darkness will His wrath subside and His empyreal rending be spread throughout the land once more.

I think you forgot something; namely we have to return to the abandoned practice of sacrificing noobs. To show the sincerity of our repentence it would probably be best if we drastically increased (say, 3 or 4 times as much) the level of sacrifice, as well. Only thus can the anger of Miura be appeased.