miura's absence

[The Prince]

Um LOL?

Are you really saying Dragonball (especially Z and GT) are things Berserk should aspire to live UP TO?
Dragonball was the same story arc over and over, just the villians changed. There was no charakter development (besides Vegeta and Son Gohan), the just leveled up again and again. And all everyone besides Sayans could ever hope to do was "give his power" to the Sayans so they would be even stronger.

Comparing Berserk to Dragonball Z/GT is like comparing a delicious 5-course meal to something a bum found in the trashcan. Not cool.

Sarcasm.....thought you'd have learned by now. You really need to get out more, son.

Work with me people.......

And YES, being that DBZ would be a case in point of exactly what we DON'T want to see happen. Though nothing to this point would suggest that this would be something worth concerning ourselves over, as never have I gotten the feeling that Miura would resort to making things up for the sake of dragging out a storyline. IMO there is no reason to doubt that everything we are getting in the story has been planned out according to a scheme developed by Miura from the start. And that the story will conclude exactly how it was always meant to, whenever that may be.


....Although considering it was my first taste of anime, Goku and co. will always have a place in my heart. I always find it funny how DBZ has become the red-headed step child among these sites. Like bringing up the WWE on an MMA forum.
Yet if it wasn't for DBZ, anime here in the states might never have caught on like it has.

[Aetherfukz]

Well sarcasm in writing is hard to catch especially when it is not _that_ sarcastic. Adding<sarcasm> and </sarcasm> tags helps there.

And I'd say that you may very well have seen other animes before Dragonball Z without recognizing them as such. Saber Rider, Alfred J. Quack, Captain Future, and a hellova lot of those 80's "cartoons" where animes withouth us children knowing when watching. Captain Future especially was wicked cool. Dunno if those things aired in america at that times too, but in germany those were the best times to watch tv as a kid, not such pokemon and merchandising ridden times as today.

[The Prince]

Well sarcasm in writing is hard to catch especially when it is not _that_ sarcastic. Adding<sarcasm> and </sarcasm> tags helps there.

And I'd say that you may very well have seen other animes before Dragonball Z without recognizing them as such. Saber Rider, Alfred J. Quack, Captain Future, and a hellova lot of those 80's "cartoons" where animes withouth us children knowing when watching. Captain Future especially was wicked cool. Dunno if those things aired in america at that times too, but in germany those were the best times to watch tv as a kid, not such pokemon and merchandising ridden times as today.

Never heard of those.......

Of course we had Voltron, Speedracer, and the G-Force (US names), but that was pretty much it. But these things were merely cartoons for kids. DBZ was the first "cartoon" I recall here in the states to attract an older audience. Which at the time had a certain "coolness" factor, a continued storyline allowing a certain degree of character development, and wasn't afraid to delve into issues such as death, blood, sexual humor, all once taboo'd for cartoons on TV.

When the relatively unedited version of DBZ first aired here, there was simply nothing else like it. And for whatever reason kicked off an entire market devoted to Japanese style cartoons marketed as anime (cartoons marketed for older audience). Forward ten years later, now anime in the US is no longer just a novelty, but a widely accepted genre. Where before DBZ, anime was little more than a well kept secret to those of us in the US.

[Aetherfukz]

Well Voltron was technically an anime too

[Istvan]

Look at DragonBall Z and GT.....even though it continued on forever, never for a moment did the series appear as if it were spinning its wheels.

You can't be serious. DBZ was full of more filler and BS after the Freeza saga (which was obviously meant to end the series) than any series ever. It's exactly what I dread happening to Berserk.

Also, I don't know that there are any threads that they couldn't wrap up in this arc. If their arrival at Elfhelm marks the entry into the third act, and we have another 5 volumes covering through Guts confrontation with Griffith, things could wrap up pretty neatly.

There are a few more threads. The moonchild, Rakshas' bloodlust for Griffith, but that's hardly too much for them to wrap up in 5 volumes.

Um... if those are really all the threads you've noticed, that's just sad. First, just defeating Griffith and his army of apostles ought to take way more than five volumes to do right, unless we get a really cheasy scenerio such as an army of mages just deciding to join Guts and wipe out all the apostle's for him (this would be so cheap and anti-climatic that I'm confident Miura wouldn't do it). Other important threads include: vastly more information/backstory on SK, and possibly Flora. Maybe connected to this, information on that old ruler who fell 1,000 years ago (whose name escapes me). More information on, and presumably the defeat of, the rest of the God's Hand. Probably something to handle Idea. Some sort of conclusion to the threads represented in all of the members of Gut's party, especially those connected to Farnese and the various characters who revolve around her. And so on, and so forth, I could go on for almost a page, but why bother? The point is, the manga is almost certainly not ending anytime soon.

[Frogacuda]

I don't know that everything about Skullknight needs to be spelled out explicitly. I like that we've gotten some insight so far, and we know the important details. Leaving much of the rest to the imagination is fine. It's how it should be, even.

But they're not going to waste 5 volumes on the battle with Griffith. Imagine this possible scenario: Guts and Griffith clash, much action ensues. The fight is interrupted by Guts' behilit. Like Griffith, Guts is given the choice to sacrifice his friends, and is finds himself before Idea. Guts destroys idea, and with it God Hand vanishes. THE END.

That's just one possibility, but you know that this isn't just going to come down a long battle. Use your imagination.

[Istvan]

But they're not going to waste 5 volumes on the battle with Griffith. Imagine this possible scenario: Guts and Griffith clash, much action ensues. The fight is interrupted by Guts' behilit. Like Griffith, Guts is given the choice to sacrifice his friends, and is finds himself before Idea. Guts destroys idea, and with it God Hand vanishes. THE END.

Which would be an incredibly stupid and cliched ending, and I would bitterly hate Miura if he did anything that ruined the story like that. It doesn't even make logical sense, since A: Gut's can't make a sacrifice (he's branded), B: you only appear before Idea after accepting the sacrifice, C: WHAT HAPPENED to the ENTIRE ARMY of APOSTLES? HOW is Guts managing to fight against Griffith one on one WITHOUT THEM INTERFERING? For that matter, why isn't the brand rendering him uncounscious? and so on.

As to Miura not "wasting" five volumes on the final confrontation... do me a favor and go count how many chapters Guts and Co. spent between entering the city and finally escaping it.

[Frogacuda]

As to Miura not "wasting" five volumes on the final confrontation... do me a favor and go count how many chapters Guts and Co. spent between entering the city and finally escaping it.

Which is why it's arguably the worst part of the series.

I'd really like to think that this story is working through a plot line that Miura had mostly figured out long ago and that he's not just making up stuff as he goes along to make it last longer.

And yes, I don't think the ending I suggested would actually happen, I'm just saying how many chapters in a row of just battling to do you expect? That's not climactic, and it's not how Berserk has ever worked. You get get a chapter or two of busting heads and then it moves on with the plot.

[Starnum]

I'd really like to think that this story is working through a plot line that Miura had mostly figured out long ago and that he's not just making up stuff as he goes along to make it last longer.

Honestly, as a writer, I've never had a full story in complete detail in full grasp before I actually wrote it out. It's like, there's always these areas where you kind of know what's going on in that spot, but you kind of fill it in later when you get there. Heheheh, though that's just me, Miura is like a genius and all, so he prolly does have it all planned out in complete detail.

Seriously though, I'm sure the ending will be something none of us see coming, and it will be truly amazing. Otherwise we all go martyr Miura, deal?

[Istvan]

And yes, I don't think the ending I suggested would actually happen, I'm just saying how many chapters in a row of just battling to do you expect? That's not climactic, and it's not how Berserk has ever worked. You get get a chapter or two of busting heads and then it moves on with the plot.

Just battling, not too many. However, usually in Berserk the plot is interwhoven with the battles, making an integral whole. It's not an either/or situation, that's part of what makes Berserk so great. It's also why I don't see anything wrong with a final showdown spanning multiple volumes, because I'm confident that any such showdown would contain a lot more than "just battling".

[Frogacuda]

Honestly, as a writer, I've never had a full story in complete detail in full grasp before I actually wrote it out. It's like, there's always these areas where you kind of know what's going on in that spot, but you kind of fill it in later when you get there. Heheheh, though that's just me, Miura is like a genius and all, so he prolly does have it all planned out in complete detail.

Who said complete detail? I just mean that he has a general idea of the beginning, middle, and end of all the major arcs of the series, and that he isn't padding them out or making them up as he goes. And miura is notorious for being a meticulous planner, so I'd like to think that he's working toward the end, and it will end because the story reached that point and not because he wanted to retire or any other factor.

[The Prince]

As to Miura not "wasting" five volumes on the final confrontation... do me a favor and go count how many chapters Guts and Co. spent between entering the city and finally escaping it.

Which is why it's arguably the worst part of the series.

I'd really like to think that this story is working through a plot line that Miura had mostly figured out long ago and that he's not just making up stuff as he goes along to make it last longer.

And yes, I don't think the ending I suggested would actually happen, I'm just saying how many chapters in a row of just battling to do you expect? That's not climactic, and it's not how Berserk has ever worked. You get get a chapter or two of busting heads and then it moves on with the plot.

I honestly don't know where you are coming from, aside from finding reasons to nitpick Miura and his style of storytelling simply because it doesn't cater to your individual preferences. Which I find funny, because it his style and attention to detail, that has made Berserk what it is today.

The fact that your POV may differ than most is fine in itself, as we all are entitled to our opinions. But the way in which you try to argue your POV, its almost as if your suggesting your vision for Berserk exceeds that of Miura's.

And in regards to suggesting that Miura may be making up things as he goes along is completely unfounded. In fact, I would go as far to say that the brilliance of Berserk is the how through the story, seemingly minute details or plotlines introduced early on, are revealed vital to the plotline only after a series of events to unfold many chapters down the line that ties everything together.

Come to think of it, Muira doesn't reveal the true nature of the story's title, until the moment Guts first dons the Berserker Armor. So it safe to say Muira has had things planned out from the beginning.

[psi29a]

Almost all good authors know the ending of their work. They start with the conclusion and point they wish to make, then spend the rest of the time fleshing out how it got to that point.

[Aetherfukz]

Almost all good authors know the ending of their work. They start with the conclusion and point they wish to make, then spend the rest of the time fleshing out how it got to that point.

Well Tolkien would be one of the most well known and beloved authors who didn't know how their own book would end when they wrote it.

[psi29a]

Almost all good authors know the ending of their work. They start with the conclusion and point they wish to make, then spend the rest of the time fleshing out how it got to that point.

Well Tolkien would be one of the most well known and beloved authors who didn't know how their own book would end when they wrote it.

Then it is certainly good that I started my statement with "Almost", I would hate to have to eat my own words.

Actually, he did know the ending before he started fleshing out his work, at least on the Trilogy he is most famous for.

So spackith the wiki:

Even though he felt uninspired on the topic, this request prompted Tolkien to begin what would become his most famous work: the epic three-volume novel The Lord of the Rings (published 1954–55). Tolkien spent more than ten years writing the primary narrative and appendices for The Lord of the Rings, during which time he received the constant support of the Inklings, in particular his closest friend Lewis, the author of The Chronicles of Narnia. Both The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings are set against the background of The Silmarillion, but in a time long after it.

Tolkien didn't start writing to write, he did plan out his work first.

I will concede that the Silmarillion was more of an evolutionary writing style where he kept going back and filling in things as he went along. This became the basis of his mythos used throughout his other works.

[Istvan]

Actually, if you're looking for authors who make up their works as they go along, having no concrete plan for the series when the first book is published, Tolkien is one of the worst examples you could choose. He invented and planned things out in amazing detail (especially since he initially had no intention to publish). That's why after his death his son could create the Silmarillion (and all the other works we've seen) based solely on Tolkien's notes.

[The Prince]

Almost all good authors know the ending of their work. They start with the conclusion and point they wish to make, then spend the rest of the time fleshing out how it got to that point.

Well Tolkien would be one of the most well known and beloved authors who didn't know how their own book would end when they wrote it.

Even before the second movie, I had already assumed that the trilogy would end with Frodo tossing the ring in the volcano.

I have my own theory for how Berserk will end as well, but I wouldn't want to ruin the surprise for Miura nor his readership.

[psi29a]

Even before the second movie, I had already assumed that the trilogy would end with Frodo tossing the ring in the volcano.

I have my own theory for how Berserk will end as well, but I wouldn't want to ruin the surprise for Miura nor his readership.

Guts tosses Griffith/Femto into a volcano too?

[Istvan]

Even before the second movie, I had already assumed that the trilogy would end with Frodo tossing the ring in the volcano.

I have my own theory for how Berserk will end as well, but I wouldn't want to ruin the surprise for Miura nor his readership.

Guts tosses Griffith/Femto into a volcano too?

Personally, I remain unconvinced that tossing him into a volcano would kill Griffith.

[Starnum]

Heh, yeah. Magma isn't enough to kill the Overlord of the Godhand.

[The Prince]

Heh, yeah. Magma isn't enough to kill the Overlord of the Godhand.

I guess you're right, being such a flamer, he'd probably enjoy it.