Evil Genius

this 'stupid' thread is getting too brainy for me. but in the end it's the same arguments we've cycled through many times before. one of us should write an english style essay about all the shit we've conversed about on this thread.

Born_Loser wrote:Unless it was god's plan to create a being strong enough to overpower him...or at least be considered and equal, in which case, his plan triumphs :p

Maybe the Idea of Evil is suicidal and is trying to get Griffith and Guts to be really powerful so that they can team up and kill him. Hey, if it was my job to be in charge of all of humanity's suffering, I'd get depressed too.

Heh now im imagineing an emo version of the idea of evil, that writes dark poems about his misery from being the harbinger of pain for the human race, ect.

but that would be a neat plot twist, gutts and everything set up to destroy its own system, ie griffith destroy the gods hand, whie the idea has gutts lined up to bring down griffith.

"woe is me, i'm just an idea....."

What rhymes with idea ??

Well, my thoughts behind the last comment comes from my observation about the theorized history of the planet, and of evolution. For example, Evolution always seems to move foreward, but it seems to take a ginormous global catastrophy to force it(life) to evolve into something more complex. Now, I think, what could the reason of this be ? I'm no Atheist (i'm not really religious either...) What could a creator-god have in mind for this ? What is the point ? And then I think about angels and demons, and I think, "Why would he create life in this way when this creator god already has these spiritual beings at his disposal ?"

So, why make life in such a way that it's constantly moving forward ? And what is evolution driving foreward to ? What could the end-result possibly be ? My best guess is, this creator-god wants equals. It already tried to make equals directly, and that that caused a clusterfuck with the rebellion. So, being a smart creator-god, it figured out that it just can't make equals, because they'll either end up as mindless slaves, or rebellious assholes. Nope. Can't just create equals directly. So... that is the whole point of evolution. Creating equals in a manner that makes them worthy of being equals, because they've been tried, tested, and grown from infancy, and developed their own unique individuality.

That's my reasoning behind my comment earlier.

Now... What I wonder, is about Void. What's up with that guy ? He seems to be the leader of the God Hand, and that means he's the strongest. So... What's up with him ? Personally... I think the story is very far from finished, because Gutz only just recently had that encounter with Slan, and I got a feeling he's going to have to go through all the members of the god-hand and their own unique minions before he gets to Griffith....

papasith wrote:Heh now im imagineing an emo version of the idea of evil, that writes dark poems about his misery from being the harbinger of pain for the human race, ect.

but that would be a neat plot twist, gutts and everything set up to destroy its own system, ie griffith destroy the gods hand, whie the idea has gutts lined up to bring down griffith.

I have it! Idea of Evil was created to be the reason for everyone's suffering, right? That means that Idea of Evil is also the reason for its own suffering. In other words, Idea has no choice but to hate itself for everything that goes wrong in its existence, and also that it's compelled to continually make itself expirience suffering. No wonder Idea has come to long for death, and has created Guts (and incidentally Griffith) in order to bring about its own destruction!

Born_Loser wrote:
Well, my thoughts behind the last comment comes from my observation about the theorized history of the planet, and of evolution. For example, Evolution always seems to move foreward, but it seems to take a ginormous global catastrophy to force it(life) to evolve into something more complex. Now, I think, what could the reason of this be ? I'm no Atheist (i'm not really religious either...) What could a creator-god have in mind for this ? What is the point ? And then I think about angels and demons, and I think, "Why would he create life in this way when this creator god already has these spiritual beings at his disposal ?"

So, why make life in such a way that it's constantly moving forward ? And what is evolution driving foreward to ? What could the end-result possibly be ? My best guess is, this creator-god wants equals. It already tried to make equals directly, and that that caused a clusterfuck with the rebellion. So, being a smart creator-god, it figured out that it just can't make equals, because they'll either end up as mindless slaves, or rebellious assholes. Nope. Can't just create equals directly. So... that is the whole point of evolution. Creating equals in a manner that makes them worthy of being equals, because they've been tried, tested, and grown from infancy, and developed their own unique individuality.

That's my reasoning behind my comment earlier.

Now... What I wonder, is about Void. What's up with that guy ? He seems to be the leader of the God Hand, and that means he's the strongest. So... What's up with him ? Personally... I think the story is very far from finished, because Gutz only just recently had that encounter with Slan, and I got a feeling he's going to have to go through all the members of the god-hand and their own unique minions before he gets to Griffith....

Awesome post man, I really enjoyed reading it!

Two questions though:
When you talk about evolution, you mean natural selection? Because if you are, I am afraid you don't really get evolution.

Also, this creator-god you describe is like the Demiurge, except he's not evil?
The way you describe it makes it look like he/she/it was a very, very powerful being, but obviously not an omnipotent one.

As for Void, I think he's the cold, methodical part of the god-hand, the one who stands for reason and logic. Which in turn means he stands for consistency, not truth. While not necessarily the boss, he's obviously the one who keeps things in order. That's probably the reason he's so hung up on causality.

i always took void to not really be the most powerful or anything, but as being the 1st gods hand.

Istvan wrote:

papasith wrote:Heh now im imagineing an emo version of the idea of evil, that writes dark poems about his misery from being the harbinger of pain for the human race, ect.

but that would be a neat plot twist, gutts and everything set up to destroy its own system, ie griffith destroy the gods hand, whie the idea has gutts lined up to bring down griffith.

I have it! Idea of Evil was created to be the reason for everyone's suffering, right? That means that Idea of Evil is also the reason for its own suffering. In other words, Idea has no choice but to hate itself for everything that goes wrong in its existence, and also that it's compelled to continually make itself expirience suffering. No wonder Idea has come to long for death, and has created Guts (and incidentally Griffith) in order to bring about its own destruction!

Fuck.....you guys ruined the ending!

SPOILERS FOR THE WIN!!!!

I've read berserk complete mangas like 50 times lol, and everytime I read them, I find something new and something that is brilliantly related to the newer chapters. I just think that Miura's got the whole story on his mind since the beginning... possible? It just matches so goooodddddddd!!!1

The most interesting part is during the Eclipse.
It is presented as an event that occur every 216 years, and since God Hand, as far as I know, shouldn't have more than 5 members (6 fingers hand?), does it mean that at least one of those big bastards will have to die before the next one? I hope so! We are counting on you, Guts.
In the first talk between Zodd and Skull Knight in the manga, Zodd says that the SK is trying to take revenge on God Hand since 1000 years. Does it mean that he has slain 4 to 5 members before? (5x216 = 1080 years).

Another thing. The narrator says, when Griffith becomes Femto, that when that age would come to an end, people would call it the "Dark Age" (or something like that, I'm translating from italian to english, so I don't know if it's the same).
The Dark Age represents the age BEFORE Griffith becoming King, where Kushan empire killed so many people, Inquisition, epidemy, pestilence, famine, the king died and so on?
Or does it represent the ages from now on in the Fantasia Arc, where Griffith rules his empire and all creatures from astral world take over humans?
Of course we still have to wait and see what it's gonna happen from now on.
But I prefer to think of Griffith as the worst bastard in Earth and so I'll choose the second option.

Do you think is it possible for a Branded one to use Beherit? And if yes, is it the same as with all the other humans?
If it's possible, I think it'll have a different use, perhaps something that could explain the Skull Knight power?

Am I talking shit?
I apologize if I've raised opinions that have been raised before, but there are over 90 pages and I can't read them all

Since there is an idea of evil, there might very well be an idea of good, right? If there is one, would there be a polar opposite of Griffith? If that's the case, he probably looks something like this:


What are your thoughts?

I agree with you, there should be an idea of good, and the opposite wouldn't be of Griffith but of the whole interstice. If that's so then wouldn't it be like a ray of light or something? Hmm, that's a little incorrect for Berserk. That's at least what I think.

Nah, the good thing but Berserk is that it isn't a Manichean conflict between two vague abstract philosophical concepts, but the story of a man and his struggle in a fucked up dystopia ruled by the physical manifestation of humanity's anxiety about the possibility that their existence may not serve a higher purpose.
It's plot is like an onion, it's made of countless delicious, tear-inducing layers. A burning, blood-stained, action filled onion of awesomeness.

PS: Batman is awesome, superman is good. And good people are fucking dicks:

http://superdickery.com/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=54

Maynard wrote: The most interesting part is during the Eclipse.
It is presented as an event that occur every 216 years, and since God Hand, as far as I know, shouldn't have more than 5 members (6 fingers hand?), does it mean that at least one of those big bastards will have to die before the next one? I hope so! We are counting on you, Guts.
In the first talk between Zodd and Skull Knight in the manga, Zodd says that the SK is trying to take revenge on God Hand since 1000 years. Does it mean that he has slain 4 to 5 members before? (5x216 = 1080 years).
(

I saw this as maybe the gods hand was destroyed about 1000 years ago and that Griffith is just the newest edition as well as completing the hand again. Which is why another 'Glorious Empire' is formed over the ruins of the former. Since I forgot all the names I'll go from oldest to youngest for the godhands.

Brain guy = oldest, born first in 216
Slug guy = 2nd oldest, born in 432
Mad scientist floater dude = 3rd oldest, born in 648
Winged succubas lady = 4th oldest, born in 864
Mr Griffith = Newest member, born in 1080

If you think about it, maybe this is just a cycle of events that happen in the world. God hand lives up to about 5 members then some badass comes by and kills them all. The original badass being Skull Knight who may have destroyed the king and 4 archangels of the Kingdom from 1080 years ago. Course this didn't stop Idea and the cycle returned to the norm with the skull knight powerless from stopping the creation of new God Hands since well, maybe he was hooked into the line of fate by that point. Seems almost obvious after he was played by Griffith into using his sword for his own goals. That fool got played bad. Guts, still being on the outside of fate probably still has a chance to end Idea.

My hypothesis is that Idea needs a certain number of people feeding it with negative emotions in order to consolidate the greatest aspects of all that raw negativity that conforms him/her, and that it takes time for humanity to reach that critical point in terms of numbers and emotional anxiety, being 1000 years the average.
And those catastrophic levels of collective angst are usually associated with an absolute feeling of insecurity and lack of determination, which is what tends to happen when the fabric of society is ripped apart as the entire political structure of civilization collapses. Like when Midland, the central kingdom that maintained the balance of power in this setting's equivalent of Europe, suddenly collapsed.

I know this idea needs work, but it makes more sense to me than having Idea arbitrarily decide on a random number of years between the (re)birth of every member of the godhand.

PS: I don't know why I don't feel inclined to believe that this is not the first God-Hand.

There's no mention in Gaiseric's legend of fantasy becoming reality or him vanquishing a gigantic tree like monster or of him using a monster army. So I doubt it's a cut and paste cyclical story altogether. Besides, it's readily apparent that Guts' and Caska's survival in the Eclipse was not precedented by the God Hand at all (Void stays silent when Slan interjects that Skull Knight intervening might've also been planned, as if shamed or momentarily defeated).

The way I interpret the legend (just my speculation here) is that Gaiseric used to be the 5th member of the God Hand but he then had a change of heart and rebelled against them. So the rest of the God Hand had no choice but to manifest physically and take him out. Having taken out their 5th member, the God Hand is then forced to wait another 1000 years to make another prospect.

Assuming Gaiseric became Skull Knight, the only way I see him capable of remaining semi-alive after being attacked by the God Hand is if he himself was one of them.

That's what I was thinking too, Gaiseric being the fifth.
If you think about it he's similar to Griffith in a way.
During Gaiseric era, there were only wars, then he came and put a stop to those wars and built the new empire, and became "king".
During Griffith era, there were still wars, he came and put a stop to them with Dordrey conquer. Now he's the king of his empire.
If Griffith had to become one of the God Hand's to achieve that, then probably also Gaiseric had to.
But then he betrayed them and his capital got destroyed.
mmh... that's a bit forced btw, don't you think? I hope we'll get some intel on him before the end
Or maybe not, I like the shroud of mystery of that character.

I was also thinking about the child our fellowship met at the beach while going to Vritanis (is it Jananin, right?), which probably is Guts and Caska son.
As far as we know, he took part in the body-creation of Griffith, making his heart more human-like and not frozen as it should have been.
I'm thinking that Griffith found a way to separate his body from the one of Jananin, freezing his heart in this way, and giving birth to the child.
I'm just trying to understand how is it possible that he is alive.
Miura you fuckin' evil genius! I can't read through your mind at all! That's why you are godlike.

Well the eclipse does happen every 216 years, Maybe Gaiseric succeeded in defeating the 4 angels and the cycle of 216 years is just the rate of being reborn into a new body. It makes since since there has only been 4 eclipses since the fall of Gaiseric's Empire. Griffith would be the completion of that. Not to mention if that wasn't the purpose of those eclipses then each on had to be different then what Griffith went through or maybe the God Hands were just rejected their 5th member for 4 cycles.... or the Skull knight kept killing the chosen one.

Or maybe the Skull Knights wasn't Gaiseric in the first place, and after being killed he's finally reborn in Griffith, the 5th eclipse.

Also, whenever someone brings up that boy on the beach as being Guts and Caska's kid I always think back to when the egg man got ahold of him and birthed griffith. Well basically, their son = Griffiths new body. So maybe that isn't the case, as I don't see that boy as 'king of the fairy's' either which was a stupid theory I read somewhere. Then what? Twins? Siblings? As one is born anew another is also reborn anew in the same womb?

Man, I don't know..

eheh this manga is mind blowing

Griffith will turn to jello, it's just so goddamn obvious.

And Guts will say, "So, is this thing edible or what?"
And Schierke will say, "This is very ancient... It is an idol of an ancient god."
And and and...

The Herald wrote:Griffith will turn to jello, it's just so goddamn obvious.

Ah, but will it be a jello that is capable of reflecting cannonballs?

Obviously!

Isidro will then take a bite of the jello, not listening to Scheirke. Upon swallowing it he --->