Fighters Discussion

[Femto]

I've heard of The Rumble Fish, but I'm not really excited about it. I don't really like the Flash-like animation it has nor do I like the character designs, and I've gotten the impression that the whole game can be summed up in one big "meh." I'll probably pick it up if it gets to US shores though, but I might trade it very quickly if it doesn't deliver the goods.

You know what fighting game I'm really excited about? Neo-Geo Battle Coliseum.

[DarkenRahlX]

No it hasn't been canceled, but no one has heard any information on the game for quite some time now. It was the same with Namco Vs. Capcom and Marvel Vs. EA. No one heard anything about those games for a while and all of a sudden they popped up out of no where. So that's why I'm not losing hope.

You can see screens and a movie clip at http://www.sammy.co.jp/japanese/product ... nload.html

One more thing then Femto...check out a fighter called Daraku Tenshi - The Fallen Angels. It was made in 1998. You should be able to find somewhere online ^^.

[Femto]

Yeah, I've seen screenshots of the Fallen Angels game, doesn't look very interesting though. Honestly, I'm an SNK-whore. Capcom has some great stuff, but SNK is the company I go to for my fighting game needs. We missed an installment of KOF last year, but I'm still waiting anxiously for the next one. A new Samurai Shodown will be awesome too, and I'll piss my pants if a new Last Blade comes out.

That is, of course, assuming they don't screw up the games. SVC: Chaos sucked hard...

[DarkenRahlX]

Well since you're a SNK whore I'm sure you know about Neogeo Battle Coliseum?

Edit: Well I'm blind Femto. Now I see your post...I'm gonna go kick myself in the face now.

[Femto]

You know what fighting game I'm really excited about? Neo-Geo Battle Coliseum.

Maybe you missed that post. I wouldn't call myself an SNK-whore if I didn't know about it. I really hope it's good.

[DarkenRahlX]

I can't wait to get my hands on NGBC. But I'm kind of disappointed. They put Ryo as a Buriki One character...when he's clearly AOF. I know he appeared in Buriki One, but he's not from that series. They need to have Gai. He was the main character of the series and he would be excellent for the NGBC line up. They aren't finished with the character roster yet, so here's for hoping><.

[Femto]

It's better that way though, if I see Ryo's orange gi one more time I'll kill myself. Let Ryo become his Buriki One incarnation and keep Terry as his MOTW self. Same with school-uniform Kyo, I'm so glad they didn't use it here. Gai would be awesome too, but don't count on it in this game. Maybe for a sequel? The roster is awesome right now regardless.

[DarkenRahlX]

Well onwards from 2-D to 3-D...Earlier in the topic I talked about Soul Calibur 3, but I just don't think that the game will cut it to tell you the truth. The game looks just like Soul Calibur 2 except with 3 new characters. Ever since these hands of mine touched Virtua Fighter 4: Evo, there hasn't been a 3-D fighter that can quench my thirst for awesome fighting mechanics. Tekken 5 even pales in comparison to VF4: Evo in terms of fighting mechanics.

All I have to say is:

-If you botton mash with a few characters in SC you can sometimes hold your own against awesome SC players.

-If you botton mash in VF against a pro...you are dead as hell.

[Ayanami]

Well onwards from 2-D to 3-D...Earlier in the topic I talked about Soul Calibur 3, but I just don't think that the game will cut it to tell you the truth. The game looks just like Soul Calibur 2 except with 3 new characters. Ever since these hands of mine touched Virtua Fighter 4: Evo, there hasn't been a 3-D fighter that can quench my thirst for awesome fighting mechanics. Tekken 5 even pales in comparison to VF4: Evo in terms of fighting mechanics.

All I have to say is:

-If you botton mash with a few characters in SC you can sometimes hold your own against awesome SC players.

-If you botton mash in VF against a pro...you are dead as hell.

Button mashers can't hold their own in any fighting game with a decent fighting engine. Not SC, not T5, not VF, not anything.

And while I do like VF, and it is crazy deep, it is also pretty broke like every thing else and I think Sarah owns too much in that game.

[DarkenRahlX]

I don't see what's so broke about VF. SC and Tekken aren't really broke either. SC and Tekken are just button mashers. A person can sit and play SC and Tekken and do awesome moves mashing buttons. When button mashers play VF4 they can not pull hardly anything off. They get frustrated with it and run away from it.

When you say broke...it makes me thing of SVC: Chaos...and none of those games are broke in terms of Chaos' standards.

[Ayanami]

I don't see what's so broke about VF. SC and Tekken aren't really broke either. SC and Tekken are just button mashers. A person can sit and play SC and Tekken and do awesome moves mashing buttons. When button mashers play VF4 they can not pull hardly anything off. They get frustrated with it and run away from it.

When you say broke...it makes me thing of SVC: Chaos...and none of those games are broke in terms of Chaos' standards.

No game is as broke as SVC Chaos, plain and simple.

You can't do sweet moves like summon suffering in SC or EW in Tekken button mashing, it just is not going to happen. I don't care how sweet you are at button mashing, it is just not happening. If button mashers are "holding their own" against you in SC or T5, then you are just not good enough at them.

As for VF, not broken in glitch terms. Broken as in crouching punch to throw owns almost fucking everything, I own the EVO 2004 videos, best of the best supposedly. There is a Jeffery player that all he does for one match is crouching punch to a throw. And why not?? Crouching punch has amazing priority and throws are REALLY HARD to break in VF.

SC and T5 are broke too in these respects, and SCII is probably the most broke of the three. I just did not like how you claim you can do sweet stuff in SC and Tekken with Button mashing.

You can't do Paul's JF with button mashing, you can't do Ivy's JF with button mashing, you can't do Mitsurugi's 66K then K~B follow up with button mashing. You just can't.

[Femto]

A masher might not be able to pull complicated moves, but you don't need to do every move in the character's arsenal to win a fight.

Admit it, SC and Tekken are both masher friendly, and don't you dare put them on the same boat as VF4. Not all of us are high level players, so it is possible that a masher will destroy you if you don't know every little detail in the game. I've heard of this happening my friend, and when a person that's been playing for 2 hours can beat someone that's been playing for 2 months, then there is something wrong with the game.

Most 2D fighting games are not like that, VF4 isn't either, not by far. SCII and Tekken are both masher friendly. Period.

And Sarah is not really broken, it's more like she's easier to use I think. Same with Jacky.

[Tempest]

I can admit that mashers can do OK in SC, to a point. I played one of my firends here in Ann Arbor who mashed all the time, and I wasn't doing too great, till I stopped treating him like a person who knows the game and like a masher. End of problem. SC does allow for some mashing I guess, but once the opponent gets a feel for it, game over, especially if they are playing someone with range liek Ivy or Astaroth..

However I emplore you to find me a masher in Tekken 5 that can beat someone who has a good amount of training under his belt (and I mean consistantly, not just once). The main reason T5 is different than SC is because T5 relies a lot on juggles, and a trained T5'er can pull out devistating half life combos that take time and training to get down. No way will a true newbie masher ever get the best of a practiced player. End of story.

I won't pretend to know stuff about VF4, you guys can fight it out about that. I can't play VF4, that's why I play Tekken. It's a heiarchy. Those who can't play VF4 play Tekken 5, those who can't play Tekken 5 play DOA.

[Femto]

I was really talking out of my ass with Tekken, I've never even played it. The characters designs are too stupid for me and I don't like the chain thing BS.

The problem with SCII as a fighting game is that if it demands that you go into "masher mode" to win a fight, if it demands that you don't play as you normally would, then it's just not good. Sure, a fighting game is adapting to the opponent's style, you won't play against Nightmare the same you would against Xianghua, but you're not playing better against masher, you're just playing to match their stupidity...

And for god's sake, let's not touch the garbage that is DOA...

[Tempest]

You can't fight mashers the same way you fight experienced people in SC2, it's impossible, Fighting experienced players means using GIs, using moves with delays to keep the other person for GIing. If you try to GI or use delay moves on mashers, they don't know what the deal is, they just keep mashing. I hardly ever GI a masher. They don't know what they are doing, how can I predict what they will do if they can't even do that? If a masher whores out certain moves, you will have to match him by using a move that can match and beat it and whore that move out.

[Ayanami]

A masher might not be able to pull complicated moves, but you don't need to do every move in the character's arsenal to win a fight.

Admit it, SC and Tekken are both masher friendly, and don't you dare put them on the same boat as VF4. Not all of us are high level players, so it is possible that a masher will destroy you if you don't know every little detail in the game. I've heard of this happening my friend, and when a person that's been playing for 2 hours can beat someone that's been playing for 2 months, then there is something wrong with the game.

Most 2D fighting games are not like that, VF4 isn't either, not by far. SCII and Tekken are both masher friendly. Period.

And Sarah is not really broken, it's more like she's easier to use I think. Same with Jacky.

First off, Sarah is freaking God in VF4. Flamingo stance auto pary to a half life combo that is easy to do. You know how much harder you have to work to get a half life combo with Akira?? Crazy hard. I played fighting games with a group of uber hard core people in Lansing that do know every little detail about every fighting game, maybe that is why button mashers getting a match or even your life half way gone is out of the question. I have studied frame data for all three games, I have done the whole sing, song and dance.

No, you don't have to use every move in a character's arsenal to win, and you definetly don't need every move in VF to win either. Like I said, throws are crazy hard to break in VF, I have seen high level VF play, I would say there were only about 3 maybe 4 throw brakes out of all the matches I watched. There was like I think 30 matches, don't you think that is unacceptable in a fighting game for throws to be damn near impossible to break?? I will give you that SC and Tekken's learning curves are a lot nicer than VFs. But by no means are they any more masher friendly than VF. Like I said before, if you are getting a round lost to a masher, you are just not good enough yet. Period.

VF4 is one hell of a game, and is probably the deepest fighter I have ever seen. I am just tired of people thinking that there are no faults to VF4 and every other game is just for amateurs. All of these games have great engines that can be crazy exploited when you put the time and effort into it. SC has just frame chicken glitches, Tekken has just frame EWs and Skyrockets, VF is just plan hard to learn.

In summary, right now I think T5 has the biggest tier problem, SC has the biggest glitch issues, and VF4 has the biggest abusable throw issue.

EDIT: I think I need to calm down. I play a lot of fighting games, I get a tad opinionated. I don't mean to be calling any one's play scrubby or any thing.

[Femto]

Ayanami, I just ignored everything I read from you because of this...

But by no means are they any more masher friendly than VF.

You know that's BS. Don't let anger cloud your judgement just because people that know VF4 piss all over SC and Tekken, and you are obviously a fan of those games. If so many people regard VF4 so highly then it's for a reason. I didn't know about the whole throw issue (I'm mostly a casual player for 3D fighters), but there is no way in hell that that outweighs the BS that goes on in Tekken or SC.

[Ayanami]

I like all three of the games. I like VF more than Tekken. All I am saying is that there is a LOT of bullshit that goes on in all three. No one can make the perfect fighting game. I don't know, I think I am getting a little steamed here, need to calm down. I really don't think that any of the three should be pissed on in any way because they are all pretty well done.

I am just tired of VF4 being represented as god's gift to fighting.

[Femto]

I am just tired of VF4 being represented as god's gift to fighting.

That's what I thought.

It's true that there is no way of making the perfect fighting game but we have to pick the game that has the best qualities and put it on top. I don't really like VF (character designs are much worse than Tekken), but it is a very rewarding game once you get into it, moreso than SC I think.

My favorite fighting game is Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike, and I'm sure you know the Ken whoring that goes on in that game. It's all about personal taste really.

[Ayanami]

I hear that Femto.

And I have to say that 3rd Strike is one fine ass 2D fighter. And in my opinion is God's gift to 2D fighting.

I know all about Ken whores......... you don't want to meet my friend Shawn, let me just say that.

[Femto]

It's all about parrying in SF3...

+1

[Ayanami]

It's all about parrying in SF3...

+1

Heard.

Can you parry any supers Femto. Like Chun Li's infamous II super??
I sure can't!

[Femto]

Nope, not in an actual match...

Except for a mid-range Shinkuu-Hadouken that is, but that's so easy it doesn't really count...

[Ayanami]

Same here, most impressive thing I parried was a EX Chain Gun Punch in a match. Other than that, just shinku hadoukens and stuff of the like.

[Femto]

I'm sure you've seen the Daigo/Justin Wong match, right?