Story progression...

[Jake]

Well this is my first thread, I dont know if this topic has been made. I looked around and saw nothing about it so...

How do you think the storyline of Berserk is playing out, do you think the right decisions have been made by the author? What are parts of the story that you think were terrible and that you think it would be better without? What would you have changed? What do you think was a little too much to put into the story, or too unbelieveable?

Well im mainly making this topic to see if poeple agree with me on certain things.

I think the story started to get sour with me when he lost his arm and his eye, I dunno it seemed stupid, I mean i never heard of a hero with such a disability, and it sure doesnt give him any advantages even when he has all these powerful enemies to fight. Sure he has an fake iron left arm, but still I just believe this made him too weak and surely when hes missing his right eye.

Also i think this bererk armor is rediculous. Its also making him to weak. I feel after all the life he lost using it will leave him a cripple to fight off enemies later in the story. I dont know if im getting my point across correctly, i just feel that he really should be on the verge of death already, and that he should be dead befor ethe stories conclusion. I know this is a anime, and there are plenty more unrealistic things, but this is just too much already.

He already lost his arm, and eye. now hes losing vision in the only eye he has left, and his armor is eating away at him. I jus think it would have been cooler if he fought off the enemies with his own strenth.

Also i was really dis appointed when some of the main characters were killed off, i think a few others could have survived, mainly jeudaeu ( i obviously dont know how to spell his name ) . I know it adds to a lot of the story that they were killed, but i mean we knew them the whole story prety much and they did not go out with a bang or moment of glory, they were killed off like they were nothing...

well i pretty much dont like the way the story is going, but im probably like this because i saw the anime and am going through the rest of the story in the manga.

But anyways how do you feel about it?

btw i know i wrote a lot lol...i have a way of rambling on when i type...

[dos.azn]

judeau did go out with a bang, da hell you talking about

[Femto]

I think all this is because of a little thing called change. While I do agree that the Hawks arc has been the better part of the series so far, things would grow stale if they would've just remained the same. Miura has been doing a great job at keeping things fresh, and even though I don't really like all the magic that has been part of the story lately, there has been really excellent moments post-eclipse regardless. Two that come to mind are the battle with Zodd at the Grave of the Hawks, and the fight with Slan. Those two are excellent moments, easily up there with the Eclipse. As long as Miura can keep giving us moments like that, it'll be fine.

And I agree with dos, Judo's death was excellent and very fitting. Things wouldn't be the same if he would've remained alive.

[dos.azn]

And I agree with dos, Judo's death was excellent and very fitting. Things wouldn't be the same if he would've remained alive.

damn straight

seems like my return was much needed

[Femto]

You've been missed. Where've you been?

[Arresty]

judeau did go out with a bang, da hell you talking about

Jake man, dos.azn is right. How much more of a bang could Judeau have gone out with. He fought to protect Casca til he died. That is an honorable way to go. Well to me at least.

Also loosing the arm a weakness. Did you read the rest of the manga, or did you just skim through it. That fake arm/cannon has helped him in every apostle fight. He would be dead if it weren't for that arm. So I would say him loosing the arm is a great strength.

Also did you start reading the manga after the anime, or reread the story from the beginning. If you read the first three volumes it really seems more proper for everyone to die, and for him to loose the arm and eye. The Golden Age arc(the anime) was just a flashback to how he got to were he is today. So the arm and eye thing were the original plan, as well as all the deaths of the people. Also they were supposed to look like they were nothing, it was to add to how hopeless it is for a human to fight god, but Guts is still fighting God and winning. That is to show how strong he is. Eye thing, since he didn't have it from the beginning doesn't bother me too much, other then how can he have as good depth perception as he does now, that is what the second eye is for, but you can still see some depth with one eye. But all and all I like that.

Also I would not call any of that how the story changed after the anime, since that is where the story was before the anime, and in the first episode of the anime even. So its not like it was a plot twist. You could see it coming from the beginning. You may not have realized that everyone died from the beginning, but you knew Griffith did something to piss Guts off.

Also the story is a fantasy. Puck was in it from the beginning, so elves and stuff have always existed. If you watch the anime, and the whole golden age arc, there is not much of that so it doesn't seem as much like a fantasy, but it definitely is. So magic and stuff should exist.

Also with more recent additions, I like most of the new characters. Was unsure at first, but Miura I think has done a really good job of integrating them into the story, and making you care for them. The berserker armor, I am unsure about. I am waiting to see more about it before I have a verdict. Currently don't like parts of it, but really want to see where it is going. That armor could be very important later, he could learn to control it or something else. Still miss his face though. Most of the people around here I think agree with me on that one. His face is one of the better parts of watching him fight, and therefore one of the biggest downfalls of the berserker armor.

[dos.azn]

femto: uh....my people needed me....but glad to be back

arresty: nice explanation, convinced me very well

[Femto]

Hey, this Jake is from Brooklyn. Aren't you from Brooklyn as well dos?

[Buzkashi]

this is regoddamdiculous, ever sense world of warcraft started working my internet has been slowing down a lot. I dont know why. It takes me a good 10 minutes just to post one thing... oh well. I dont know how you couldnt like the story line. If you dont like it dont read it.

[Trant]

Eye thing, since he didn't have it from the beginning doesn't bother me too much, other then how can he have as good depth perception as he does now, that is what the second eye is for, but you can still see some depth with one eye. But all and all I like that.

As far as I know Guts would still have depth perception due to the fact that his brain has already gotten used to having to perceive depth. If he was only born with one eye, then yes, that would be a problem, but as it is he should be just fine.

Just try covering one eye and see what difference it makes to your depth perception.

PS: I explained that horribly, I know.

[Starnum]

Hm, no offense intended, but the author of this thread just doesn’t seem to get it. *Shrugs*

[Arresty]

Eye thing, since he didn't have it from the beginning doesn't bother me too much, other then how can he have as good depth perception as he does now, that is what the second eye is for, but you can still see some depth with one eye. But all and all I like that.

As far as I know Guts would still have depth perception due to the fact that his brain has already gotten used to having to perceive depth. If he was only born with one eye, then yes, that would be a problem, but as it is he should be just fine.

Just try covering one eye and see what difference it makes to your depth perception.

PS: I explained that horribly, I know.

You actually have that somewhat backwards. If you are born with one eye you can adapt to getting depth perception easier with one eye, cause you learn from a younger age to use only one eye. If you loose an eye you can't use the original method of perceiving depth. The reason you see depth fine with only one eye is you are looking at stationary objects. Try putting on an eye patch and trying to hit a baseball and see if its just as easy. The way we perceive depth is using one eye to track an object and the other keeps everything else in perspective. That is why you need two eyes.

[Starnum]

Yep, pretty much.

[Libaax]

Judeou was great characther and his dead was a good one.

Guts losing an arm and eye adds to to his characther i mean he is branded and only lives for revenge. Berserk just wouldnt be the same if Guts body was perfect no scars after he has faught all these demon,monsters.

I remember when i first read Berserk, how much i liked how Guts died almost every fight,that he loses his arm and eye then you knew Berserk wasnt a normal manga.


I think every move by the mangaka has been right except the armor. Guts would be better without it if we dont see his face anymore when he fights.

[Gatzz]

To be honest, Jake, I think you should read something else..
This is way too hard for you...
Hmm, maybe Walt Disney has some nice stories?
Nobody dies in Disney Land!

[Femto]

To be honest, Jake, I think you should read something else..
This is way too hard for you...
Hmm, maybe Walt Disney has some nice stories?
Nobody dies in Disney Land!

What exactly is wrong with Walt Disney?

[Kêthêrîc]

well, it probably struck a nerve because that's what it's intended to do. Noone really wanted to see everyone die, but it did add more emotion to the story. Admitedly, I was pissed when i saw it, and that's when you know you have a great story. A good story will instill emotion . At first i didn't know about the manga, only the anime so i watched it, and was friggin dissapointed at the ending. Little did I know there was more to the story, but my initial reaction of the eclipse was "What a shitty twist." Maybe after Jake gets over the initial shock of it all he will feel a bit better about it. As stated before if you go from the anime into the manga it's a bit different than reading the manga all the way through. All in all still a great story.

[dos.azn]

Hey, this Jake is from Brooklyn. Aren't you from Brooklyn as well dos?

sure are. hey i recall now, so are you!

[Brainpiercing]

The story after the eclipse has some of the best individual arcs ever in any manga, both artistically and from a character/story point of view. Read the Lost Children arc, or the Retribution arc properly and you'll find they easily keep up if not beat the golden age. The anime portrays the atomsphere of the golden age slightly differently, but really everything is part of the development of the story, and it all has a point it's moving towards. Is it unrealistic to see as well with one eye as with both? YES, but is it realistic to swing a 200lb sword around???

[Azrael]

It's totally possible to swing a sword like that.
If you're a stud like me and Guts. [I actually like saying Gatts.]

Anyway, one of the strongest points of Berserk was that once you get past the incredible feats and magic, you get to a very harsh and believable story.

Every single fight costs Gatts. No matter his level of strength, he's mortal, like you guys. He goes into each fight and gives it his all, and sometimes, he loses a bit of himself, but thats the risk he takes going into each fight, into each ordeal.
And its this loss that lets us believe that Gatts isn't some immortal golden hero.

He's just a man.

I think so, at least.

[panic]

I think the story started to get sour with me when he lost his arm and his eye, I dunno it seemed stupid, I mean i never heard of a hero with such a disability, and it sure doesnt give him any advantages even when he has all these powerful enemies to fight. Sure he has an fake iron left arm, but still I just believe this made him too weak and surely when hes missing his right eye.

Also i think this bererk armor is rediculous. Its also making him to weak. I feel after all the life he lost using it will leave him a cripple to fight off enemies later in the story. I dont know if im getting my point across correctly, i just feel that he really should be on the verge of death already, and that he should be dead befor ethe stories conclusion. I know this is a anime, and there are plenty more unrealistic things, but this is just too much already.

He already lost his arm, and eye. now hes losing vision in the only eye he has left, and his armor is eating away at him. I jus think it would have been cooler if he fought off the enemies with his own strenth.

Well if Guts would not lose anything (his eye, arm, etc.) It would be quite boring, i mean who wants to see Guts fighting and winning all the time? Like Skull Knight said once: "..even without that eye and arm, he still will fight same.." or something like that. That is what makes the story interesting, its to show how powerful Guts is. From what you wrote it seems like you want Guts to be a great warrior winning with everyone around and be a greatest hero in the whole world, and of course it should end with some nice happy-ending. Sure, but thats not Berserk

And the thing about Berserker's Armor. I really dont think it makes him weak. Of course, using it costs pretty much health, but i doubt that Guts would die so easly just by using it, his way too tough for that. Now Guts want to gain control over that armor, thats what he wants from it, I'm pretty sure about that. Maybe in the Elf's kingdom by some magic tricks he could be able to control it, but i think he will gain the control simply looking at Griffith, when he's inside and he sees Griffith that could probably bring him back and than he would be able to control it. Thats what i think cause thats the simplest way and it would be quite exciting to see that. Personally I love when the head of the armor appears on his back, and Guts uses it, cause than he goes hell mad and he's killin' everybodys ass around, no matter how big etc. the one is. Berserker's Armor plays a big role in that story, that's what I think.

He already lost his arm, and eye. now hes losing vision in the only eye he has left, and his armor is eating away at him. I just think it would have been cooler if he fought off the enemies with his own strength.

Don't be so negative about it. When he lost his arm and eye, did it make him any weaker? Now when he has that armor, and he is losing his vision makes him so weak that he cant even wield his sword up? I quite doubt that. It looks like you didn't read through the manga carefully, or you just missed the whole point of it. Btw by that time when he's fighting stronger monsters, and it looks like a big battle is coming up, do you think that he could take care of it with just his own strength? I don't say no, but i doubt that he wont use his armor again. And wasn't it what Guts always wanted? More strength, so he could stand up to his enemy's. No one actually said that, but doesn't it always looked like Guts wanted more power? Than why he's still carrying that armor around?

I'd say that you just missed the point somewhere guy.

[Buzkashi]

Nice to see you here Azrael.

[Femto]

Hey, this Jake is from Brooklyn. Aren't you from Brooklyn as well dos?

sure are. hey i recall now, so are you!

Yup, at least during the college year.

[Starnum]

What’s wrong with Disney? A lot actually, such as how they bastardize stuff. *Shrugs*

Anyway, I think such things as tragedy in stories are great! Like Ketheric was saying, it instill emotions, and that makes it more valuable than most other mediocre works. Anything that can actually stir emotions within you is true art. Tragedy is one of the things that made Shakespeare so legendary.

Also, struggling through adversity is another quality of a good plot. It’s just good story telling, that’s all there is to it. Thus, I rest my case. I think things are pretty clear to all of us anyway. If “Jake” still doesn’t get it, then there’s no hope, and he should just move on.

[Azrael]

Anyway, I think such things as tragedy in stories are great! Like Ketheric was saying, it instill emotions, and that makes it more valuable than most other mediocre works. Anything that can actually stir emotions within you is true art. Tragedy is one of the things that made Shakespeare so legendary.

Also, struggling through adversity is another quality of a good plot. It’s just good story telling, that’s all there is to it. Thus, I rest my case. I think things are pretty clear to all of us anyway. If “Jake” still doesn’t get it, then there’s no hope, and he should just move on.

Exactly what I was saying. Oh well. No one appreciates a good tragedy anymore. Like that guy who fell at the Olympics and totally skidded on his face. Major tragedy. Yet I was the only one laughing.

And the thing about Berserker's Armor. I really dont think it makes him weak.

I agree. I think the whole point of the armor is to,
one:re-establish Gatts' humanity
-Usually, the armor does quite the opposite. Look what it did to the Skull Knight. However, Gatts can overcome its power. He will prevail
two: show his willpower
-For Gatts to remain human, he has to want to be human. Fighting the armor will be his hardest battle yet, but he will be a stronger man for it.

Nice to see you here Azrael.

Hm?
Thanks for the welcome.
Actually not my first time with this group, I go on IRC sometimes, but not under this sn...
Starnum might remember me as AngelAtWar. Yay, trivia game!