Ch 252

[Arresty]

Starnum knew what I meant. So its two to one so I win. HA.

He is nice, but that is still not romantic. Him comfortting Schierke when she was sad is not romantic. That is being a good friend, nothing romantic about it. Romantic is completely different. What Rod was trying to do is romantic, just other than maybe Farnese there, no nomral selfrepecting girl would fall for his bullshit. Well other women in the court he fools around wiht might, but he is just a douche.

Now jumping off a cliff to save someone, I woudl say is romantic in some ways, but Casca sure as hell didn't take it that way at the time. Though time number two catching her before she fell off the cliff, now that got her to take her clothes off. Smooth move Guts.

[Trant]

Guts being romantic? Pfft.

I don't remember Donovan or Casca getting dinner and a movie at all.

[Starnum]

HAH! Shut the fuck Ninj4! You need to stop talking shit, when you don't know what the hell you're talking about. As you can see, I was right. I tried to point it out to you, but since you obviously can't concede anything, let me spell it out for your stupid ass.

I said that romantic charm, by that I mean that style.

Do you get it now? Okay then, shut your ramble hole. Like I said, you have low reading comprehension. Probably b/c you're always to busy trying to think up some lame ass uninformed retort, or completely useless statement. If you don't like it, then you can fuck off.

Granted, about ten percent of your post are actually worth something better than shit. I think you should stick to that. In case you haven't gathered it yet, you're pissing me off. You've always annoyed me. You don't know me well enough to fuck around with me. So, pay close attention to this, watch your shit, or actions will be taken. I'm tired of your mouth...got it pal? All right then, have a nice day.

*He turns away, steam rising off of his body*

I probably shouldn’t have let this build up. Even if you’re joking around, like I’ve said, you don’t know me well enough. All I ask for is a little respect. Just give me that, and I’m sure I’ll forget all about this. However, if you just want to run around with a smart mouth, then I’m sure it can be shut for you. Until then, I’ll let you know when you can fuck around me.

*Flickering rapidly, he suddenly vanishes into the mists of time*

[NINJ4]

I don't remember Donovan or Casca getting dinner and a movie at all.

@_@


Arresty: Farnese fell for that crap? I hope not - she juz gave a blank look like she was thinking about Guts and co. when Rod was putting the moves on her. And no you DONT WIN hahahahaah - y? You claimed (and still seem to claim) that Rod has romantic charm which is a style.

I responded by claiming that this style requires sincerity, and then stated that since Rod had no sincerity it is not possible for him to have that style.

To clarify on the sincerity part, basically, Rod has ulterior motives. He is not courting Farnese because he loves her and wants to take care of her for the rest of his life. The flowers and such hence feel more like an act of bribery then any sort of romantic action.
This is what was also used to determine the romantic nature of the other actions of Guts. The actions mention were all selfless and done with concern for the other party. I too agree that for Schrieke and the other girl the action was made out of friendship (thus taking away the romantic part which implies a deeper love), but for those ppl who think more of the relationship it would then fall back into romantic.


Sooooooo, to sum it up:
Rod's actions do not fit the style of Romantic Charm simply because there is no sincerity in his actions.

Guts is very romantic because the actions he takes for the sake of his love, while be it "normal" or not pretty, are sincere and selfless. While statistics in the real world for men show that most men leave their lovers when they fall ill - especially mental ill - Guts instead chooses to care and protect Casca. This is far more romantically charming then filling an entire room with roses with the mindset of using the wealth or power of the person you are charming. At this point however, it is just a difference of opinions I suppose.

[Arresty]

Just so you know you don't have to be sincere to be romantic. Also if you say are studying Muay Thai, and are just begining you could claim to fight using that style, but you really can't do anything in it, but its still your style. In other words, you can use a style, and be bad at it, but you still use that style.

[NINJ4]

I said that romantic charm, by that I mean that style.

As for style... still a no, since such style requires sincerity - and Rod just doesn't have it

Couldn't Arresty's quote be arranged (without changing the meaning) to say "I mean that style of romantic charm?" Because that's how I understood that quote. If I am wrong - dont read on, but if I am right then...

In my quote, I used "such style" as opposed to just "style" since I was reffering to Arresty's quote about the style of romantic charm and how Rod doesnt have [/color=red]that[/color] style, which, in the last part of my quote was reffered by the pronoun "it"

WOW, poor Starnum - chill man, its not like ur getting flamed or anything. Go play with your daughter and come back happy

[NINJ4]

Just so you know you don't have to be sincere to be romantic. Also if you say are studying Muay Thai, and are just begining you could claim to fight using that style, but you really can't do anything in it, but its still your style. In other words, you can use a style, and be bad at it, but you still use that style.

With the first part (part highlighted in red), that was what I was referring to when I mentioned that it was a matter of opinion - since in my opinion, part of being romantic, is being sincere.

For the analogy of Muay Thai, true - if I claim to be a begginer, I can claim that my style is Muay Thai without really knowing how to do anything. This doesn't mean I dont know anything however. By claiming that I am a beginner in Muay Thai, at the very least I should know something - even a proper way to greet your teacher would count. With Rod's case, I dont see any sincerity at all - soooo, using the Muay Thai analogy the only thing Rod knows is just the name of the style, Muay Thai. And just knowing the name of a style isnt enough to allow one to claim that they are even a beginner of that style much more a practioner of it.

[Arresty]

Well if you use your definition of romance, I woudl still be right. Say you are a bigginer in Muay Thai or some othe rmarital arts. One of the first htings you learn is stance. Stance is setting up for a move, or to fight right. Well he is setting up everything fine with his speech. So you could say he learned the stance, but he has yet to learn to follow through(sincertity) so you could still say he is using that style.

But you don't have to be sincere to be romantic. Guys use romance to lay girls, and don;t marry them. That woudl be lacking sincerity. Also listening to Schierke even if they were married, woudl not be romance. That is just what you are supposed to do. Romance is doing something out of the ordinary, or saying sweet things to sweep them off there feet. What he was saying was nice things in attempt to sweep her off her feet. Whether he is sincere or not, that was what he was doing and therefore was romance.

[Gaiseric]

I have never skimmed through so much crap.

[NINJ4]

Guess my take on romance is a bit to conservative for the times, since for me being romantic is an expression of love - not a tool to lay girls. As an expression of love, part of it is sincerity and the other is the process of placing the needs of your love beyond your own (selflessness).

Rod fails on both accounts. His gesture of those flowers is not sincere since he is filled with ulterior motives, and although the flowers may make Farnese happy, being that he has an unlterior motive - he expects something in return (not selfless). This is why I would only consider Rod to have only heard of the martial art style and nothinng more in the analogy used.

Taking your opinion of romance (your second paragraph), I agree. Because sincerity is no longer a nessecity by that definition, romance could then be out of love or for personal gain (getting laid).

on side note, looked up an "official" definition of romantic and got several defs of which this one seems most appropriate: "Displaying, expressive of, or conducive to love" (dictionary.com, hence the "official" in quotes) And although there is a definition for love given as well - it is far more subjective and thus causes the definition of romantic to be subjective as well - allowing various opinions of what being romantic is.


Gaiseric: SORRY! someone get this thread back on topic fast!

[Arresty]

NINJ4, it says displaying love, you can display love, but not mean it. You have a very fairy tale view of romance. You might be reading some of those porno books desguised as decent literature for women, called romance novels.

We are talking about the chapter sorta, so we were not to far off topic. But I want to hear some other people's opinions on how Guts is going to approach getting Farneses out. Also would like to know what peoepl think Serpico's stance will be.

I personally thing Serpico will side with Guts in this situation, mainly cause he wants Farnese to be happy, and she does want to be with Guts. The only reason I think he may not side with Guts, or may just let it play out and side with who wins, is because he also wants her safe, and travelling with Guts is far from guaranteeing safety.

As far as Guts approach, I am intersted more in hearing what you have to say, because I can't think of any strategy besides him knocking on the door and saying, "Can I have my babysitter for Casca back." I guess he coudl always try to sneak her out or something. Though knocking on teh door, woudl be quite humorous, especially if he had the drangon slayer on his back and his berserker armor on. He coudl be like, "I will take her by force if need be." Though I know Miura is more clever then that. I am assuming he has a interesting plan for Guts and them to act out in getting her out. We will have to wait a bloody month to see. Damn Miura and his breaks.

[|||||||]

What would it make Guts if he would come up with genuine and elegant plan? taking her back by her own will without causing a ruckus? GRIFFITH II?

Nah I think there will be a major disturbance, causing enough chaos for them to get out pretty easily though there may be one or two encounters with enemies. Since he started chasing his own "dream", he only wants to fight strong opponents. any other fights are meaningless to him, so it is likely he avoids them.

"Badass" Guts always cared for his comrades since he was with the hawks. Only before he was someone who couldn't care less about anything but survival. I also think Godo (swordsmith) had a big part in it. It's kinda Guts ist getting happy because there are people he can care for.

[kvsari]

I reckon he'll do just that. Front up with armour and all, kindly asking for her. In fact, I'm wondering how the nobility will behave when confronted with a scarred, hulking mass of a man.

[NINJ4]

In fact, I'm wondering how the nobility will behave when confronted with a scarred, hulking mass of a man.

They'll break down and grovel before his feet!


Guts is probably happy that there are people for him to take care of, since it is in essence living the old days in the band of the hawk, but at the same time it does cause him some trouble - that is fighting for others again, as opposed to just himself. It's not only Casca now that he watches out for - it is all those other guys too.

As for the strong opponents - yah, I kinda doubt he will go on a massacre because of that. He isn't a pscho that loves murdering people (which really are like ants to him in a battlefield) so I figure, if they give him resistance then he'll probably just knock them out or something. Two exceptions to this is if Apostles and Godhand somehow get involved or if something really pisses him off (like that time right after he found Griffith all tortured).

soooooooooo, that means you agree with me that hes gonna be ninja like!


edit: Arresty: I too think Serpico is a little confused as well, but eventually will side with Guts since he is normally purely acts out of the best interests for Farnese, and while being with Guts is dangerous - at least she is in a state happiness.

[Starnum]

Hm…Well, the way I’ve perceived what Arresty is talking about is this. Regardless of Rodrik’s motives, this is the “style” he is taking to achieve them. In a sense almost anything can be categorized into a style. Do you see what I mean? It almost sounds like you two are arguing over something different from the other. I was merely trying to help you two, mainly Ninj4, get on the same page. It doesn’t help to argue something that isn’t really being disputed. Anyway, let’s just forget about it…can we please do that?

As for Gatts’ approach to getting Farnese out of there, I’m not sure. He’ll probably want to talk to her, find out what she really wants, make sure she’s admitting what she really wants, and then do whatever he can to make that happen in the most efficient way possible. However, I think the main thing the nobles need to worry about, is not letting him see her, or not letting him help her do what she wants. Gatts isn't the kind of guy to take "no" for an answer. It's up to Farnese to truly convience him that this is what she wants, which I'm sure it's not.

As for Serpico, he’s a bit more complex. It’s not that Gatts isn’t complex, but Serpico seems more unpredictable, as his resolve may not be as stable. One thing we do know, is that he wants what’s best for his sister. However, which does he consider to be more important, her happiness, or her state of being? I have a feeling he’ll side with Gatts as well though. I don’t think anyone would want to live with their father, or Rodrik for that manner. Also, if she gets married, will he be allowed to stay with her? Probably, but still…

Heh…seems like Ninj4 and I do agree on some things…that’s good at least.

[Arresty]

I am just really curious to see what he does, but I think you are right Starnum, about him actually going and asking her what she wants. I was thinking he would just assume, but I think he is the type to go and find out for himself. He may send in the elves if he does not want to try to get in there, but I woudl think he would want to talk to her in person. He is getting like Griffith and mastering the speeches that get people to follow you. In fact, wow he is alot like Griffith now, except not going to sacrafice everyone. And so far I think everyone will end up agreeing on Serpico siding with Guts, besides I honestly think Guts was growing on Serpico. I think Serpico was starting to like travelling with him. Whats to say Guts is a loveable guy.

He isn't a pscho that loves murdering people (which really are like ants to him in a battlefield) so I figure, if they give him resistance then he'll probably just knock them out or something.

Ok I half agree with you hear. I wouldn't say he loved killing people, but I also would say he has no problem cutting down anyone in his way. He will kill over knockout any day. He doesn't hold the ants under my feet philosophy anymore, but even when he was at his peak of niceness he slaughtered 100 people just cause he didnt' want to run. He has no moral objection to killing. It is natural to him, he loves fighting. Its the only thing he enjoys, but I am not saying he loves to kill, just loves to fight. Killing he is indifferent too. We grow up being told its wrong, so therefore it is wrong to us, he grows up being told its right and that is how you need to make a living. He killed his first person at 9 and has been doing it professionally since then. He definatly wouldn't hesitate to kill two lowly guards that blocked his way.

[kvsari]

In the tavern he didn't kill anyone. Even Silke enjoyed a good, healthy, manly, hairy chested, drunken pub brawl.

[Rurik]

I think he will ask to speak with her and when he's denied, he'll claim to be her husband/boyfriend...

[Arresty]

In the tavern he didn't kill anyone. Even Silke enjoyed a good, healthy, manly, hairy chested, drunken pub brawl.

Cause that was all it was. It was just a brawl. Noone pulls out swords in a brawl, and even in that situation, if someone did he would probably just knock em out. That is a brawl after all. Escaping with someone from a house full of guards they are shooting to kill him, so he woudl be returning the favor.

[NINJ4]

I think he will ask to speak with her and when he's denied, he'll claim to be her husband/boyfriend...

LOL, that would be great - odd too since it would like turn Berserk from a violent blood fest to one of those bishoujo mangas. Actually, I hope Guts has more time to relax since it would be nice if he got all beefy and healed again.

In the tavern he didn't kill anyone. Even Silke enjoyed a good, healthy, manly, hairy chested, drunken pub brawl.

It's this type of behavior which makes me think that Guts would knock out the guards instead of killing them.

He will kill over knockout any day

I agree that Guts is indifferent to killing - but its just that, indifference. Because it is indifference, he wouldn't have a preference for killing (and thus doesn't resort to killing for all events). Feels like he considers two things, 1) the challenege, and 2) the nessicity. Because most humans are like ants to him right now, he really doesnt need to exert the minor extra effort to kill them when knocking em out would achieve the same effect. However, if he was agitated or percieved a threat to the others - especially Casca - i wouldn't doubt that the Vermillion castle would be bathed in blood in a short time upon his visit.

edit: (wow i need to type faster too) Yes, they didn't pose a threat so Guts just hammered those guys at the bar with his fist. The same could be true for the guards if they dont pose a threat - but if it is as you described it, and Guts doesnt ninja his way through (yes I still think its possible ^^), threating those arround him would be a death sentence - a quick one

[Arresty]

edit: (wow i need to type faster too) Yes, they didn't pose a threat so Guts just hammered those guys at the bar with his fist. The same could be true for the guards if they dont pose a threat - but if it is as you described it, and Guts doesnt ninja his way through (yes I still think its possible ^^), threating those arround him would be a death sentence - a quick one

You posted an hour later. Did you just open up the post window and walk away for a while.

Yeah thats why i am saying he wouldn't knock out the guards, is they woudl pose a legitamate threat. Plus for him I would say killing is easier htan knocking out. One swing can take out a group of guards, wher eknocking them out he needs to hit each on. And knockouts aren't as easy as peopel make them look in movies, much eaier to slice them in half.

[Libaax]

Its very hard to knockout people that want to kill you and knowing Guts he will kill without a second thaught when they try to kill him.

[NINJ4]

Arresty: yah

As for knocking em all out, All he has to do is rotate the sword 90 degrees and swipe - but it would all be for convenince and such (if they die from the bruises - it still wasn't intentional so it still dont count ^^). Guts really isn't that much of a bully so i just dont see him considering killing as a nessecity to go in and out

They can try to kill him - but I dont think anything can really hurt him that is human except for those uber skilled peoples. Basically, its like that one scene when he first met up with isidoro. Those kushans were just in the way so he just did some swatting. He wasn't activley like killing them in the sense that if a kush were knocked out, he would walk over to finish him. That was a while back - guts has changed a bit, and not causing a big ruckus at the Vermillion's is something which he would consider (cause his brain muscle is big too ^^)

[Arresty]

Apprently I missed this, and didn't reply til now. Oh well in response to it, he couldn't knock them out easily with the sword stil. Plus with the speed he swings that thing he woudl kill them I am quite sure with it still sidways. But if he has three gurards in front of him, one swing with the sword nomrally he could tear right through all three, if it was sideways he woudl hit one and knock him into the other I guess, but that would not knock them out really. In order to knock someone out though you need to get them in the head, and seriously the rate he swinsgs that sword, he woudl kill them with a blow to the head. He would crack all the bones in the skull with ease. I remember when he was weaker and using a small sword(small to dragon slayer), and he fought the hundred people, he made a coment about how the sword was dull so it will hurt them worse when it went through them.

And still if Guts is escaping some place with someone and he is attacked he will kill people who stand in his way. Think of killing of Yuriius. He killed people on the way out, though not everyone. He woudl probably just kill those standing immediately in front of him just to clear a path to run through. But if anyone was with him, he woudl probalby kill everyone to clear a path for them, which woudl increase the body count signifigantly, since they are not as fast as him.

[Starnum]

Heh, I think Gatts has been similar to Griffith for a while now actually. I also agree that Gatts was probably growing on Serpico. Heh, of course Gatts is a loveable guy.

As for Gatts' resolve on killing, he is rather indifferent. However, it is my belief that he prefers not to. It all comes down to this, if your innocent, he’ll do his best to avoid it. However, if you try to kill him, you automatically forfeit your own right to live. At that point there’s no longer any reason to feel bad about it.

By the way, don't you guys have lives? Don't you have other things you need to do? Don't you have obligations, or possibly other interests? I swear you guys are almost going in circles. Stop posting so much you bums!