Period piece/Samurai manga discussion

Post by **Brainpiercing** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:10 pm

While waiting for the next chapters of BOTI I was looking around for something that could remotely compare, and I stumbled upon Lone Wolf and Cub and Vagabond. I've read three volumes of LWAC, and it's very good, I only miss some sort of arching story. So far it was just episodes, and a bit of character development. Also, I kind of miss recurring sideline chars. I hope it won't be 28 volumes of just episodes.
There are also at least two movies for that series, one of which I've watched, but I'm trying to find them again now. (Hmm, DVDboxoffice has them for 29.95$Can with free worldwide shipping. Considering the free shipping that's cheap, but I don't have a credit card right now....)

I've read the first volume of Vagabond, and it seems quite good, although I don't like the artwork as much as BOTI or LWAC. The artist doesn't use motion distortion as much as the others, although the drawings are very detailed (it just reminds me of Gantz's artwork, which I also don't quite like). I also don't like the visual style of the characters as much, especially the haircut of the main character, who seems be meant to look cool to a modern audience. However, I'm assuming the story will pick up in later volumes, since a lot of people seem to have a high opinion of this piece.

Now, I quite like this genre of story, and if anyone knows any other mangas that compare, fire away. (Just no Kenshin, please, while I don't really dislike it, it's a kiddy manga in comparison. The only good bit of Kenshin is the 2 part anime OVA that displays his past.)

Post by **TrueRush** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:22 pm

i just finished LWAC it was a great series. although a bit too sentimental at times for my taste. very mature like vagabond and boti. they are by far the 3 best samurai themed manga i had the pleasure of reading. i really cringe when i read kiddy manga so i havent touched kenshin the anime movie was already enough for me.

if i had to pick i would choose vagabond out of them. it stays more true to reality imo and just suits me. i do agree that the artist for vagabond doesnt emphasize the strokes so you do get confused sometimes.

if you can find it i think you'll enjoy samurai deeper kyo if you havent already.

Post by **Laik** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:53 am

I enjoy all of the manga listed above, espesically Lone Wolf and Cub.

Lone Wolf and Cub and Blade of the Immortal are the same in their near brash style of artwork that meshs well with the image and mood of the story. Lone Wolf and Cub goes deep enough in it's sentiments that it could bring a grown man to tears, Blade of the Immortal does the same but not to the same extent while, at the same time, having more interesting action scences.

I do prefer Blade of the Immortal's story and character interaction though.

While Kenshin may not be as serious as Blade of the Immortal or Lone Wolf and Cub, I liked the characters but the best part about Kenshin to me is the OVA. Where the television series is average at best and the manga is pretty good, the OVA excels for reasons that I can't say without spoiling it.

Vagabond is alright but I just wish I could read more of it to form a better opinion.

Post by **Brainpiercing** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:58 am

Well, yes, the Kenshin OVA was great, but the rest is a little dumb.

Having now read a bit more of LW&C I can say that IMHO it's at least the same level as BoTI. The main characters are really great. The artwork is my second favourite style (like BoTI). The only thing I miss is a story arc.

Post by **Starnum** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:05 am

Hm, I’m at a bit of a disagreement with you guys here. Kenshin is my second favorite anime. I don’t understand why you don’t like it very much. It’s very high quality stuff. I don’t think its kiddy either. I can think of lots of things in Kenshin kids shouldn’t be exposed too, like Shishio bifurcating that cop. Also the OAV’s were okay, but it’s really just stuff taken from the manga. It was done much better in the manga too, more detail.

I haven’t read any LAWC, but Vagabond is extremely good. You know it’s based off of the true story of Miyamoto Musashi’s life, right? Yeah, some of the details are changed though, to make it even more exciting. I thought the first volume was great, but it does indeed get better too. Yeah, I’d have to pick BOTI over Vagabond still, but just by a bit.

Post by **Arresty** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:34 am

I got to agree with Starnum on this one. Certain parts of Kenshin do seem kiddy in a way, but as a whole its definately an adult series. I think what makes it kiddy is the first part. The Tokyo arc. It is more episodic, and not as violent. When you get to the Kyoto arc it gets much better. In fact that i my favorite part of ths story. But Kenshin does do alot of commentary on violence and beliefs. It is a very good series if you let youself get into it. Plus the Manga is much better, though I have not finished it yet. The manga is darker to some extent I would say.

Post by **Malvado** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:37 am

I wasn't a serious fan of kenshin myself. It's good in all though. blah kyoto the best fight was right before, hajime vs himura. That was sweet and short only like 17mins?

Post by **Arresty** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:03 am

That was an awsome fight. Probably one of the best. I was refering to the Kyoto story arc as a whole which includes that fight.

Post by **Brainpiercing** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:30 pm

I also watched the Kenshin TV series up to the ep 62, and it was alright. What I didn't like was that it used the strange DBZ technique of dragging a single fight over two or three eps, and operated only on cliffhangers. Of course it was addictive, but really you have to resist these kind of mechanisms. I'm assuming the manga will be better, but I've been put off by the fact that it has all the stupidity of the anime. I was hoping they dumbed it down for TV, but they didn't, at least not much.

The Vagabond manga is also full of cliffhangers and long fights, although at least it doesn't use tons of flashbacks full of recycled material to make a fight fill two volumes. There are also flashbacks, but at least the material is new.

Btw does anyone know how far Vagabond has been released up to this point?

Post by **Libaax** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:55 am

I read both Vagabond,LWAC they are great mangas. I like the art for LWAC speciely since its from the 70's i was shocked when i heared that cause it look very good for it age.
I have read 9 vols so far of LWAC and most chapters are episodic but there are some with his revenge to do. In the begining i didnt like the episodic thing wanted an arc as you but i dont care anymore since there is so many stories that show how things were at that time,so many diffrent fates.

I buy the books of Vagabond,have up vol 13 right now and i must stay i cant believe you dont like the art cause it looks so good, its a disgrace to compare it to GANTZ art. The art in vagabond is the best i have seen in an manga despite looking to clean. Also i dont think Musashi looks the way he looks to make the manga popular cause the Musashi name is so popular that you dont need do anything to make it more popular.

I have been looking for samurai mangas as good as these but haven't found one yet.

Stay away from Samrai Deeper Kyo cause its like Kenshin but more comedy. I have read up to vol 22 of kenshin i cant bring myself to read more cause Vagabond,Lone Wolf and Cub and BOTI makes it loook like shit.

20+ vols of Vagabond is realesed.

Post by **Brainpiercing** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:38 am

I've got to retract my statement about the vagabond art, it IS outstanding. I don't like it as much as berserk, but it'll have its place among my favourites, you can be sure of that.

Post by **Libaax** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:46 am

If you read the scans you dont know how good it really is cause i read the scans first but when i bought the books i was like wooow "what the hell is this nobody can be this good"

Berserk i will get back to that after i have bought the book cause it might huge diffrent art wise like Vagabond.

Post by **Brainpiercing** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:23 am

Damn I just found out you can get both Vagabond and BotI damned cheaply from amazon in Germany.

But really, I hate reading German, and I also found out they are published in tiny paperback book format. That sucks majorly, because that will be much smaller than even on my screen in full-screen-format. Even there I sometimes can't see the details.
What format can you by from darkhorse in the US?

Post by **Arresty** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:29 am

I know berserk from dark horse is i think 5"x7". And that is normal for manga, even in japan. I think its for cheapness reasons, but the magazines are full sized but the volume releases are shrunk down to that size. But its not all bad. Artwork still looks a million times better than on screen, IMO.

Now BOTI from darkhorse is full size if you buy the chapter releases, but volumes are shrunk down to size as are all manga. Only thing annoying is they rearrange the panels, which you probably noticed from reading the online ones, which I disagree with, but still better than mirroring the pages.

Post by **Brainpiercing** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:37 pm

Hmm, I think in Germany they don't do much mirroring or rearranging. But Darkhorse does very annoying things with their manga sometimes. BotI is really bad in that respect, since they sometimes mirror, sometimes move the panel. So one image the sword will be on Manji's left, the next on his right. Bloody annoying, I really don't get it that they think their audience is too stupid to read from right to left.

Well, I don't really think that I will like to read in the shrunken format. I've looked at a volume of BAA here, and it looked like a mickey mouse book from the quality. Very disappointing. Anyway I'll look at those vagabond volumes in a shop before ordering.

Post by **Arresty** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:47 pm

Well don't trash darkhorse to much. BotI they have been doing for a while, and its better than completely mirroring IMO. I think its too late for them to change. THe volumes may not be mirrored though. But as far as all there other manga that I have read all of it the do i the traditional format. BotI is the only exception, probably cause its older. Like they do an awsome job with Berserk, Hellsing, and Trigun.

Post by **Brainpiercing** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:04 pm

Their translations are good, (at least to someone who never read the original), but their stupid games with the format really bug me. It's the same attitude that hollywood has: Always assume that your audience is dumb as shit.

Post by **Arresty** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:06 pm

Well with the exception of BotI I think all there stuff is in traditional right to left format. And I think with BotI it was started back a while ago, and then manga was new to the US so I think they did it in the left to right way to make it an easier transition for americans. I think with it they were targeting the comic book audience more than the anime one. I mean the chapters are released in a comic book style. Later I think they decided to bring what th anime\manga people plus the artists' reall want. Cause now all there stuff is unformatted.

Hell they made a specific point to not censor berserk, so they instead shrink wrap it and put a warning on it.

Post by **Libaax** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:13 pm

If they censored Berserk they would lose much money cause nobody would buy kiddy version Berserk...

Post by **Arresty** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:21 pm

Oh I know. But I just remember reading something about it. And the guy interviews basically said the same thing. But all there newer stuff is good.