Berserk Chapter: 283

Post by **Ghengis John** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:14 pm

Sortep wrote:ok... 1st off... the whole point of muira setting up the impossibilities of guts using a behelit is more cement to the character development we've seen thus far whereas guts believes in the strength of a human against monsters... he will not use the behelit, no way, no how.. period end of story amen,

I don't know where people are getting all this nonsense about a sacrifice not being able to use the behelit. Guts is offered the chance to use the behelit multiple times, there's an entire period where the behelit seems it wants very much to be used by Guts. What makes it an impossibility is Guts himself and his resolve not to use it. I too loved the "Man Versus Monsters" theme and was so disappointed when guts donned the demon armor. Perhaps I was supposed to be in awe of his new abilities, or appreciate the physical manifestation of his internal struggle not to become a monster, but it felt like a real jump the shark moment to me.

however m'asalam alekum.. done... berserk isn't... i repeat isn't a shonen manga where you have some little bullshit training time to power up the main characters... if you notice guts has never had anything of the such... it's doesn't fit within the mechanics of the berserk world...

Yup, it's not like guts ever took a year off to chop up logs or anything... Or like characters were ever handed magical weapons with fantastic unique abilities perfectly suited to those recieveing them. Or like anyone ever shouted "I've never seen anyone control the wind spirits so well this quickly before" or anything.

skullknight has never trained guts... he's explained things but otherwise guts has been left to his own devices... the fact that you would compare the situation with guts in berserk to that of ichigo in bleach (a mediocre shonen manga barely any better than naruto) is maddening... read from volume 1 till now and rethink your posts judging on what muira has given us.. leave all the fairy fan fictionesque bullshit out of it... i hate this thread now

Yep, skully never trained Guts. The rest is just vitriol. Now this is my first post and all, and I do contend that Berserk is in a class all by itself. I recommend it to everyone I know, and I've seen many people who hate childish animes they may have seen in the past or who aren't even the anime audience who have loved berserk. The maturity level in berserk is far above most of any media let alone it's japanese contemporaries, as are the complexities of it's themes and the gripping nature of it's plot. But sometimes we gotta step back, possibly off our high horses, and realise that there are still manga conventions aplenty at play in our beloved berserk. For example, a friend of mine wanted to start another friend on the show and manga so he showed him the hundred man battle. It didn't go well. I'm a pretty big fan, but I wouldn't foam at the mouth if anyone wants to draw a comparison to bleach or anyother manga or anime. They run in the same circles, the comparisons are bound to happen and as much as I may enjoy the highbrow elements of berserk I know people who love this thing for the same reasons they love fist of the north star (the blood, the cutting of people in half ect) so learn to live with it.

Post by **Libaax** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:36 pm

There is no high horses you cant compare Berserk to shonen like Bleach, you can compare it Fist of north star or another alittle similer adult manga.

Post by **psi29a** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:48 pm

Apples and Oranges, the two are not the same but share similar qualities. Both are sweet, both have citric acid, both have seeds, but there are also very dissimilar quantities of citric acid, the amount of tartness, the fact that one can range from yellow to green to red while an orange pretty much stays orangish in color.

Now, there are many types of apples and many types of oranges, but they are all still fruit.

Now, this analogy works with Manga and beneath that manga and anime like Bleach and Berserk. I like both, both involve swords, sometimes rather big ones and both have a large cast. However, Berserk has copious amounts of blood, people actually die and not just die but also in gratuitous way. Berserk also tackles moral and ethical problems, and has plenty of hetero and homosexual themes. Bleach does not.

The fact of the matter is that Berserk just isn't Shonen while Bleach clearly is so it is prudent to take care of comparisons, especially when comparing apples to oranges.

Post by **Ghengis John** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:12 pm

Libaax wrote:There is no high horses you cant compare Berserk to shonen like Bleach, you can compare it Fist of north star or another alittle similer adult manga.

You're going to tell me fist of the north star is an "adult" manga when the same guy has a punch that explodes people, a punch that recovers lost memories, a punch that does mind control and another punch that makes them tell him the truth? That doesn't seem a little ridiculous to you?

A fine post btw, psi. Couldn't agree more. And while I'll never say the two are the same, and I would advocate caution in just what comparisons people make, I just wanted to urge a little temperence.

Post by **Khelegond** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:37 pm

Maybe by adult he means "Blood", "Gore", "Sex"... those stuff that usually puts an 'MATURE' on the cover of the magazine

Post by **psi29a** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:39 pm

Ghengis John wrote:A fine post btw, psi. Couldn't agree more. And while I'll never say the two are the same, and I would advocate caution in just what comparisons people make, I just wanted to urge a little temperence.

Or just argue for the sake of arguing.

hehe, I don't mind.

Post by **Libaax** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:00 am

Ghengis John wrote:
Libaax wrote:There is no high horses you cant compare Berserk to shonen like Bleach, you can compare it Fist of north star or another alittle similer adult manga.
You're going to tell me fist of the north star is an "adult" manga when the same guy has a punch that explodes people, a punch that recovers lost memories, a punch that does mind control and another punch that makes them tell him the truth? That doesn't seem a little ridiculous to you?

A fine post btw, psi. Couldn't agree more. And while I'll never say the two are the same, and I would advocate caution in just what comparisons people make, I just wanted to urge a little temperence.

I have read alittle of Fist of north star and its very ridiculous, i almost laughed at it

Nah by i adult, i meant an adult rated manga with blood,gore,sex etc

Post by **loop** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:00 pm

Sandman wrote:I know Guts will not use the Beheilt and will not sacrifice Caska

it can't be => caska is already branded and you can be sacrified twice (cf vol 3)

Post by **psi29a** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:12 pm

loop wrote:
Sandman wrote:I know Guts will not use the Beheilt and will not sacrifice Caska
it can't be => caska is already branded and you can be sacrified twice (cf vol 3)

Thanks loop.

We have covered this topic before. It is highly unlikely that Guts will use a behelit (one of which he took from another apostle) to become an apostle himself.

It would also be a bad direction to take story after all this time, he would be letting down many of his readers by letting guts take a easier path.

As for Slain, her entire tone in the conversation with Guts is purely mocking, knowing full well that Guts cannot us the behelit.

Post by **Istvan** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:32 pm

Or, at the very least, knowing full well that he won't whether he can or not. I admit, I find it unlikely that he even could, but the question is academic, since there is no possibility at all that he would ever choose to do so.

Post by **travla** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:20 pm

the only thing that's gonna happen with the behelit if it gets more important in the story is either guts is gonna come close to use it, struggle with is toughts and get out with a clearer mind. or he could use it and when the time comes for him to state that he will sacrafice is friends, he'll say fuck it and he'll try to chop those fuckin godhand mofos up

if he looses is behelit soon in the story, then we'll know it means something big is gonna happen cuz they say it always find it's way back to the user.

Post by **Aerion** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:59 pm

hm ure all getting very focused on this whole behelit thing...
of course its an important aspect ...but i dont think it will be the most important point to gutts

even if (and i dont say i think that he will do it) he thinks about using the behelit in whatever way it wont make more than a few chapters...

i think the comig chapters will rather focus on the elven island...

Post by **travla** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:08 am

Aerion wrote:

i think the comig chapters will rather focus on the elven island...

true dat.it's gonna be a major plot point as we will seewhat happens with caska.also im thinking that all of guts's injuries will be healed up (espicially the bad burns he just received).

some people where saying that guts could have a army by the end of the series a while back in this topic.i bring this up because where they're goin is full of elves but more importantly mages (maybe a new crew member will appear hehe). with them on his side, guts could start a something big

Post by **psi29a** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:11 am

I'm interested in where Miura will take this, I would like to think that Guts naturally attracts a large following that may eventually go toe to toe with the neo-band of the hawk.

Post by **travla** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:28 am

psi29a wrote:I'm interested in where Miura will take this, I would like to think that Guts naturally attracts a large following that may eventually go toe to toe with the neo-band of the hawk.

yes it would be great to see that.but for the final climax i would see guts and griffith a it again one on one like they did before. as it all started,so shall it end type of thing.

Post by **Istvan** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:33 pm

I'd also like to see Guts gaining a group that can fight evenly against the Neo Hawks, although I doubt it will ever be anything the size of an army. But he's already collected a few members, and it looks like he may have just collected another (on the boat). If he gets a few more on Elfheim, and his current group improves a bit more, plus maybe one or two others later, that might almost be enough. Given how few humans can fight with Apostles (even with the aid of magic), I doubt he could ever get an "army" that would be of any use, but an elite party of a few members might be enough to give him a chance, under the right circumstances.

Post by **Nyst** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:21 am

Ghengis John wrote: Guts is offered the chance to use the behelit multiple times

Maybe i'm a bit tired this morning, but i don't remember the chances you're talking about.

Plus i don't know whether a branded man could use a behelit ?

And well.. thanks for the great work EG, nice chapter, though i'm a bit disappointed to see Griffith winning battles again and again, i secretly hoped "old man thunder" would be able to kick his pretty ass

Post by **Libaax** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:45 am

Istvan wrote:I'd also like to see Guts gaining a group that can fight evenly against the Neo Hawks, although I doubt it will ever be anything the size of an army. But he's already collected a few members, and it looks like he may have just collected another (on the boat). If he gets a few more on Elfheim, and his current group improves a bit more, plus maybe one or two others later, that might almost be enough. Given how few humans can fight with Apostles (even with the aid of magic), I doubt he could ever get an "army" that would be of any use, but an elite party of a few members might be enough to give him a chance, under the right circumstances.

He doesnt really need an army he needs a bigger team thats all.

Cause even in Neo Hawks there arent many uber strong apostles.

The rest are monsters and apostles that Guts can kill as easy he has done for many years.

Post by **Istvan** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:04 pm

Right, he needs a few more members, and for the existing members to get a bit more powerful. An army wouldn't really be practical for him.

Maybe i'm a bit tired this morning, but i don't remember the chances you're talking about.

The most obvious one is the offer of Slann in the cave.

Post by **Sandman** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:34 pm

I dont know about you guys But I feel another time laps coming on. I hope Ishidoro gets strong enough to wield that Magic axe and sword... sounds a little too much like Zodds weapon choice but oh well.

Post by **Libaax** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:18 am

Istvan wrote:Right, he needs a few more members, and for the existing members to get a bit more powerful. An army wouldn't really be practical for him.

Maybe i'm a bit tired this morning, but i don't remember the chances you're talking about.
The most obvious one is the offer of Slann in the cave.

I dont hold much hope in that his current Band will get stronger.

Since i am not pro magic stuff like what Serpico uses.

I hope for more people with skill enough to kill apostles. Thats the hole point to me, people that are human but have the strenght,skill to kill apostles.

If that doesnt happen, then there is the only magical way left, making Guts and co super sayian.....

Post by **Wo0oT** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:25 pm

If that doesnt happen, then there is the only magical way left, making Guts and co super sayian.....

i don't quite get how you can say such a thing to a fantasy story of such caliber. i mean come on... if you compare "magical way" in a dark fantasy manga like berserk with dragonballz powerups, maybe gandalf the grey was getting sayjin 3 as he was reborn as gandalf the white too.

In my opinion, Berserk is a huge tale with huge plots and is incomparable
to any other manga (or any other fantasy story) i've seen so far.
And if there are giant monsters and demons on the evil side,... why would it not be allowed to have some magical chars on the good side.

Post by **wotjesus** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:33 pm

I'm pretty sure Libaax was joking...

And your LotR reference doesn't make any sense.

Post by **Libaax** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:19 pm

I am not joking.

Berserk has never been about too much magic and by magic i mean using magic as a weapon like Serpico does.

Sure its necessary cause Serpico isnt strong enough without it to be helpful to Guts but still i dont wanna see more people flying with wind elements or something and killing apostles.

Dont get me wrong, i dont mind the witch, like what she is doing with her abilities to help Guts.

Post by **Istvan** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:49 pm

I wouldn't want the main characters to become offensively magically dominated either, but I don't mind limited magic on their side. A couple of characters (like Schierke and Serpico) who use magic to fight doesn't seem bad, and I don't object to the "upgraded" Dragonslayer that can kill astral beings (or even the Berserker Armor, since that just enhances Guts own skills) and the like. Withen limits, using magic to upgrade them is fine. Too much would, I think, destroy the story since you have a point about the theme of humans confronting monsters, but within those limits it can add a lot to the story. I think we should just trust in Miura (whose done an excellent job so far) and wait to see what happens.