New Evangelion movies?

[The Herald]

Nope, I like dubs. The reading just takes away from the film experience. Also, Griffith is such a chick in Japanese and Guts sounds horny. Their English voices suit them a hell of a lot better. Though, Casca's voice actress is not the best.

[Tempz]

Nope, I like dubs. The reading just takes away from the film experience. Also, Griffith is such a chick in Japanese and Guts sounds horny. Their English voices suit them a hell of a lot better. Though, Casca's voice actress is not the best.

Most people who don't like subs don't know how to watch them. They end up just listening to themselves read the subtitles.. It makes for a much better experience if you just forget that you're reading the subtitles to yourself and just listen to the voices while reading the subtitles without thinking about it(If that makes any sense at all..). I don't even want to imagine what Guts' voice sounds like when he's screaming in the English version.

[LordMune]

I don't really watch dubs. Could be a cultural thing (I can count the number of dubbed movies/tv shows I've seen in the last decade on the fingers of one hand).

I know there are ok dubs out there- I watched the first few minutes of Hellsing Ultimate dubbed, just to see what it was like, and I was pretty impressed.

However, there is the language barrier thing still; what the american actors are saying is not what the japanese actors were. I was watching the first episode of Evangelion just for kicks yesterday (undubbed and without subs), and started wondering how the hell one would translate Gendou's little "pilot it or get lost" speech to Shinji in front of EVA 01. "...denakereba kaere!" is such a great line with great delivery, but how the hell would one translate it for a dub? "then go home"? "then go back"? "then get lost"? "then go"? Nevermind the fact that it is impossible to spit out the line "go home" with the same subdued viciousness Gendou says "kaere". Subtitles do not mess with the original line delivery- although I guess that is meaningless to anyone who doesn't have some grasp of the Japanese language, so...

Meh.

[The Herald]

I watch subs all the time as well. With an anime like Gundam X you have to because it's not in English. I'd rather watch Gundam Seed in Japanese than English any day, even if I do know some of the actors who do the English version.

But for some like Escaflowne and Berserk it is worth watching it in both languages to get the feel. Escaflowne is in a fantasy world, so no cultural barrier there, and Berserk is in France, so ultimately it should be in French. Same thing with Steamboy, it should be in English. Though I've watched it in all available languages and I personally like the actor choice in Spanish the best.

And the Miyazaki in English are some of the best out there. Like Totoro for instance, the best version in any language was the English from 1993. The Japanese was high pitched and annoying, and the recent English done by Disney was, well, vomit inducing because of Dakota Fanning.

The first version of Monoke in English by Alliance Atlantis was awesome, especially because they went the distance and even had the songs in English. I've heard the redone version by Disney where they revoiced it with half of the same actors as the Alantis version, excluding Billy Bob Thornton, which was idiotic, and they kept the Japanese singing. That singing is horrible and shrill and I commend Atlantis for redoing it in 1999.

Then there's Howl's Moving Castle. Both the English and Japanese are fine, no better or worse than the other. I personally enjoy that Cristian Bale is Howl, even though the man himself is a rugged Welshman, he can play a dandy perfectly well and the roughness of his voice adds to a magical alure of the Howl character.

If the anime is based in Japan with a heavy Japanese theme, then by all means argue that it should not be English. Anime is done in dubbing even in Japanese, with the few exceptions of Akira and the like done in pre-lay. But the problem with anime nowadays as opposed to the days of Akira is that you can't even tell if the characters are Japanese anymore, even if they are in Japan, with their blue and green eyes and multicolored hair.

Then sometimes the English is better than the Japanese because the English script is funnier for whatever reason. Sunabozo, aka Desert Punk, is much better in English because the actors annunciate better in English because of the sort of training they go through over here. The trick with Sunabozo is obviously that they don't have to catch up to mouth flaps because of the masks, but also because the lead actor, Eric Bale (who has also done Trunks from DBZ) has worked with the creators and wrote a suitable script in English. Sunabozo is the best example of a translation into English so far.

[The Prince]

I watch subs all the time as well. With an anime like Gundam X you have to because it's not in English. I'd rather watch Gundam Seed in Japanese than English any day, even if I do know some of the actors who do the English version. But for some like Escaflowne and Berserk it is worth watching it in both languages to get the feel. Escaflowne is in a fantasy world, so no cultural barrier there, and Berserk is in France, so ultimately it should be in French. Same thing with Steamboy, it should be in English. Though I've watched it in all available languages and I personally like the actor choice in Spanish the best. And the Miyazaki in English are some of the best out there. Like Totoro for instance, the best version in any language was the English from 1993. The Japanese was high pitched and annoying, and the recent English done by Disney was, well, vomit inducing because of Dakota Fanning. The first version of Monoke in English by Alliance Atlantis was awesome, especially because they went the distance and even had the songs in English. I've heard the redone version by Disney where they revoiced it with half of the same actors as the Alantis version, excluding Billy Bob Thornton, which was idiotic, and they kept the Japanese singing. That singing is horrible and shrill and I commend Atlantis for redoing it in 1999. Then there's Howl's Moving Castle. Both the English and Japanese are fine, no better or worse than the other. I personally enjoy that Cristian Bale is Howl, even though the man himself is a rugged Welshman, he can play a dandy perfectly well and the roughness of his voice adds to a magical alure of the Howl character. If the anime is based in Japan with a heavy Japanese theme, then by all means argue that it should not be English. Anime is done in dubbing even in Japanese, with the few exceptions of Akira and the like done in pre-lay. But the problem with anime nowadays as opposed to the days of Akira is that you can't even tell if the characters are Japanese anymore, even if they are in Japan, with their blue and green eyes and multicolored hair. Then sometimes the English is better than the Japanese because the English script is funnier for whatever reason. Sunabozo, aka Desert Punk, is much better in English because the actors annunciate better in English because of the sort of training they go through over here. The trick with Sunabozo is obviously that they don't have to catch up to mouth flaps because of the masks, but also because the lead actor, Eric Bale (who has also done Trunks from DBZ) has worked with the creators and wrote a suitable script in English. Sunabozo is the best example of a translation into English so far.

Paragraphs?

[Aetherfukz]

Paragraphs?

Context?

[The Prince]

Paragraphs?

Context?

Clueless

[The Herald]

Ehn, you caught me during a post final buzz. But despite the absence of paragraphs what I have to say counts. When you talk to someone in the biz, in any biz, they will have something to say.

Edit: I made it into paragraphs, happy now? Anyways, I doubt anyone would read that, it's just too long. But you can't discount all dubs out there just because it's a Japanese made show redone for the American or whatever audience. Just think about it, dubs are a Godsend, because without them anime would never have exploded like it did around the rest of the world.

If you are Japanese by all means watch in Japanese, but I'm not going to spend all my time learning a new language just so that I can enjoy a culture. True, the language is a huge part of the culture, and I understand and respect it, but in the end any film is best enjoyed in your own language because it is yours and you make a better connection to it that way. Unless you're a Brecht fan then subtitles and different languages are the best out there.

[Aetherfukz]

[...] but in the end any film is best enjoyed in your own language because it is yours and you make a better connection to it that way. [...]

I quite oppose that. Any film usually is best enjoyed in the language it was made, because then the actors own voice and intonation is used and not something second-guessed. Of course that rules out bad actors and non-live-action movies. But animes, hmm, sometimes I enjoy the german dub sometimes the japanese subtitled show. It very much depends on the professionalism of the dub. American dubs I find generally aweful, even Full Metal Alchemist which was praised so much, the german dub is alot better there, and from the voices more akin to the japanese version.

Just my 2 cents...

[The Herald]

Yes, American dubs generally do suck, unless they're Disney/ Pixar. But Canadian dubs are great.

[Tempz]

After watching the tv series(I guess I have seen this before because I remembered parts of all most every episode but don't remember watching it), I must say, 25-26 sucked ass. No explanation was given at all except subtle hints that characters have died or even what the hell happened. The "What the fuck just happened factor", is way up higher on the scale than compared to the end of Berserk in my opinion. After watching/scanning through the last 2 episodes atleast 10 times. I finally figured out they must of all connected into one being or some shit like that. But there's atleast 20 unanswered questions that I could name off the top of my head. [spoiler]Why did angels have to return to adam? Why was adam called adam if it was the mother? Why not call it "Eve"? Who killed ritsuko's mother? Who killed Kaji? How did Shinji's mom die? What actually happened that caused the 2nd impact? If I had just seen 1-24 I would of gave this a 10/10. I'll settle for a 8.5 or a 9/10 in the end. Oh, and where the hell do angels come from? Are they born inside the earth? Space? If the last angel was the same as Rei, why couldn't Rei float around on light or w/e?[/spoiler]

I still haven't seen the movies, I'll watch them after christmas. Hopefully they explain, in detail, what the hell happened..Instead of just showing the after math and expecting the viewer to know automatically what happened after listening to the characters answer questions that pop up on the screen or some shit.

[Starnum]

See what I mean. People are too dense to get the ending, and they want all the answers handed to them. Who gives a fuck about where the angels come from and all that crap. There was a far more important message that was being conveyed.

You fail.

Yes, Instrumentality was the end of the world, and everyone was assimilated with the Universal Oneness. I could go on to tell you how I interpreted everything else, but you're supposed to do it yourself. It's called inference. You're suppose to draw your own conclusions. As I've said before, the series was like a big setup, so that you'd know the characters good enough to understand their individual psychological experiences at the end. If you can't appreciate that, then I'm sorry.

[LordMune]

words

Yes, this.
I'm sorry man, but having the details explained to you is the wrong way to go. Admittedly, it might help you on your way to realization, but the plot in Evangelion is only tangentially related to what is really going on. The storyline is an abstract backdrop, an exquisite set piece. It gives you certain tools to interpret what happens on stage, but it offers no real answers on its own.

[Tempz]

The characters have problems. I already knew that. I seen them struggle to live and find a meaning to why they pilot eva/exist. All that was left was to explain and fill in the blanks during those 2 episodes. Instead they go off showing false realities/conclusions and more of the characters struggling to find their own answers.

[spoiler]Episode 25 - Random questions, etc.. Characters explaining that this is the world Shinji created(With in himself?)..Yet in the end its only a "possible conclusion".
Episode 26 - More flashbacks, randomness, questions, false realities, and things that were already obvious. Yet, nothing on what actually happened. Shinji realizes that he doesn't have to hate himself, glass breaks - In the end, he gets praised by everyone for being himself instead of just for piloting eva. I'd rather have an ending that suited 1-24 instead of this.[/spoiler]

The point of view that it took at the end wasn't anything like 1-24. People who like 1-24 probably don't like 25-26. And people who like 25-26 will say things like "1-24 was just a setup for the last 2 episodes", and love the series without caring for the details that could of made the people who like 1-24 love the series.

Edit - The End of Evangelion gave me the ending that I wanted.

[LordMune]

The following will make more sense when you've watched End of Eva; Shinji is the devil.
Think about it.
It's the only piece of religious symbolism that matters.

You are going to get the answers you are looking for eventually, I suppose. But when you do get there on your own, you will realize those answers are essentially meaningless. Much is. On many levels Evangelion is an exercise in futility; there's a strong undercurrent of complete nihilism and cosmicism that is not readily apparent at first. The show explores its characters and their flaws, and in doing so shows that there is a way forward; maybe, just maybe, there will always be a way forward, a way out of it, no matter how fucked up things get. Then, seemingly out of the blue, Evangelion kicks you in the teeth. This is futile, false, and any attempts to fix things will always result in an unimaginably horrible backlash. What the fuck are you going to do about it, bitch?

To pervert an old quote, Evangelion's message is the following; Look upon your works, ye mighty, and despair.

EDIT: Or, to quote one older and wiser than myself, "Evangelion is Hideaki Anno's outcry about everything that is wrong with the world". Anno also happens to be an excellent director and storyteller, but in the end, that is just icing on the cake.

EDIT2: Evangelion is also the only example of a "counter-Gainax" movement in the company. Looking at their history, most of their succesful titles have been stories of hardship followed by unbridled success; their first production, The Wings of Honneamise put a man in space against impossible odds. Aim for the Top!GunBuster is again about triumph against seemingly impossible odds, although at a high cost. A more recent example would be Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.
Evangelion moves contrary to this pattern; it gets worse, worse, and worse, because eventually it must get better, and it will be AWESOME, right? No; it gets worse, worse, worse and worse, and then there is episode 25/26 and End of Evangelion. Evangelion hits rock bottom and goes to town on it with a power drill. When you're down, the only way things can go is up, right? Wrong again; the weight of everything above crushes you. Anno was obviously heavily depressed at the time, and the dreary logic of depression shines through here; you are fucked and you always will be.

Welcome to the best of all possible worlds.

EDIT3: I don't know which is worse; me thinking this much about japanese cartoons or the fact that some (very few) japanese cartoons actually warrant this level of introspection and philosophical discussion.

[Aetherfukz]

See what I mean. People are too dense to get the ending, and they want all the answers handed to them. Who gives a fuck about where the angels come from and all that crap. There was a far more important message that was being conveyed.

You fail.

Yes, Instrumentality was the end of the world, and everyone was assimilated with the Universal Oneness. I could go on to tell you how I interpreted everything else, but you're supposed to do it yourself. It's called inference. You're suppose to draw your own conclusions. As I've said before, the series was like a big setup, so that you'd know the characters good enough to understand their individual psychological experiences at the end. If you can't appreciate that, then I'm sorry.

I can only completely second that.

Edit - The End of Evangelion gave me the ending that I wanted.

That is exactly why I like the normal ending better than End of Evangelion. It was just made for fans to get a "true" ending, with Asuka fighting mass produced Evas, big explosions, etc. etc.

[Starnum]

End of Eva is what sucks balls. It was only made to hand-feed you the answers, it's no where near as brilliant, and it's actually stupid and sickening. I mean between Shinji beating off and feeling bad about it, to choking Asuka, I just really despise it. I had all the answers I wanted, and was left with a deep psychological experience from episodes 25-26. The fact that End of Eva is the official ending to the series, just cheapens everything and makes me sick. I hope all the shallow fans who ranted and raved to make it happen, because they couldn't appreciate the deep meanings and artistic vision of the original ending, well I hope they're happy for ruining it for us.

Anyway, I never said I didn't like the first 24 episodes. In fact, I liked them about as much as the last two episodes. I guess it's so much for that theory.

[LordMune]

I really, really like End of Eva. It's vile and disgusting in so many different ways! It is not integral to understanding Evangelion, but it reinforces certain points.

EDIT: We all know End of Eva is Anno's spiteful reply to the fans' clamoring for a "proper" ending, but that doesn't invalidate it or make it worse than the original ending in the slightest. Between the post-modern episodes in the movie and the single-frame photographs of hate mail Gainax received after the show, it's hard not to imagine Anno screaming "You didn't get it? THEN YOU DIDN'T GET IT YOU FUCKERS! Here's Shinji masturbating over an unconscious Asuka and then choking her and then penetrating an eye in a fully-formed vagina in Rei's forehead. Fuck you!".

... Seriously though, I regret watching the Renewal (platinum in the US) edition of End of Eva. I was smart enough to skip the masturbation scene, only to discover that hey, that thing that you couldn't really see clearly before is an eye. In a vagina. In her forehead.

[Deathbringer]

Who killed ritsuko's mother?

She commits suicide after killing the "first" Rei, this is said in the series.

Who killed Kaji?

There´s no correct answer, people theorize that it was either the secret service or Misato herself. I personally think it´s the first choice.

How did Shinji's mom die?

Dude, this is also said in the series, she dies during one of the first activations of unit 1.

What actually happened that caused the 2nd impact?

Have you paying any attention at all? I´m not gonna answer this one when this was a crucial event to explain the events of the end of the series.

We all know End of Eva is Anno's spiteful reply to the fans' clamoring for a "proper" ending, but that doesn't invalidate it or make it worse than the original ending in the slightest.

Most of it was what Anno originally intended, Ritsuko´s and Misato´s deaths and more events in the movie are hinted during the final 2 episodes but yeah, the movie was also a big "fuck you" to the moronic fans. Personally i loved it, it was the most perfect ending to Evangelion he could ever imagined. Happy endings in Evangelion do not compute. That´s why i think the Remake will cheapen the "Life sucks and there´s nothing you can do about it" message that it passed during the series and the movie.

[Tempz]

1. It's not "said".

2. It's not shown who kills him.

3. She dies in the first activation of the unit 1. How? It's not "said". Did she unite with it and chose not to come back? It's not shown or said except for subtle hints that don't really tell you anything, you're suppose to guess something that should be shown.

4. The actual event of the 2nd impact is never actually shown except for parts of misato's past. Later they explain why/how the 2nd impact happened after watching "the end of evangelion". I wrote that before I had watched any of the movies. Have you been paying attention?

[Aetherfukz]

The fact that End of Eva is the official ending to the series, just cheapens everything and makes me sick.

While the other things you said are true, I have never seen anything written (or said from the Gainax officials) that the End of Eva is the true ending. I suppose everyone can choose what ending is true for him/herself. The canon I know if is that the normal series ending is what happens in the instrumentality, while the movie is what happens outside of it.

[Deathbringer]

1. It's not "said".

Yes it is, it was Ritsuko actually.

2. It's not shown who kills him.

Yeah like i said, there´s no sure answer.

3. She dies in the first activation of the unit 1. How? It's not "said". Did she unite with it and chose not to come back? It's not shown or said except for subtle hints that don't really tell you anything, you're suppose to guess something that should be shown.

When Shinji had a synchronization of 300% with Eva 1 and his body liquefied as LCL and became in essence, part of the Eva´s soul, Ritsuko says that this happened once in the first activations of Eva unit 1, Shinji´s mom and that she was never able to bring her back. It´s fucking explicit with no hints or mysteries. And there´s also the episode explaing Nerv´s origins showing that Shinji watched the event as a kid.

4. The actual event of the 2nd impact is never actually shown except for parts of misato's past. Later they explain why/how the 2nd impact happened after watching "the end of evangelion". I wrote that before I had watched any of the movies. Have you been paying attention?

Sorry then, didn´t noticed but i´m pretty sure they explained the reason behind the 2nd impact in the series, not sure though, it´s been awhile.

[Tempz]

Seeing that I just watched it.. It never says who murdered Ritsuko's mother. All it shows it her strangling rei..then her laying dead or a chalk outline around her or some shit from a view point looking down.

Wiki: Naoko strangled Rei to death and then either committed suicide or was murdered by an unknown assailant.

The manga shows her committing suicide I guess, so I'll go with that.

[Starnum]

Yeah, I think Ritsuko's mother did commit suicide. I always thought that Misato was the one who killed Kaji, but who knows. Also, I'm actually not sure if End of Eva was an official retcon of the ending or not, but I heard that it was. I believe it was Femto who said that, so it may not be true. *shrugs*

[The Herald]

The beauty in Evangelion can only be seen in the tv show. It's too thick with character and psychological drama that any movies, Japanese or otherwise, would, and did, only ruin it. Kind of how some movies are ruined by their sequels.