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Killfile
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Post by Killfile »

First - I'll thank you not to call me "son," though if that was directed at a generalized audience it is, perhaps, less offensive and more pretentious.

That said, I have a problem with the idea that the media is portraying the war in Iraq negatively out of some anti-bush bias.

When we first rolled into Iraq the media's attention was riveted on the invasion. CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, and all the cable channels essentially fawned over the awesome power of the American Air Force. There were stories discussing the technological sophistication of the US military, the intricate plans of attack, and the methods by which the military would seek to minimize civilian casualties.

Embedded journalists gave breathless reports of marine divisions moving under cover of darkness and under fire with lighting speed - flanking Iraqi positions and cutting them off with surgical precision while directing the rivers of fire and metal that roared from the sky like the finger of God himself.

The battle for Falujiah was covered by the media with an air of mystery rather than objection that being denied access to the city and US troops were heralded as heroes, fighting for the liberation of Iraq and the safety of the world.

But then Iraq fell, and the long occupation began. American troops found themselves reliving the nightmares of their fathers in Vietnam. The threat of death from the darkness coupled with the inability to strike back against an enemy that vanishes into the crowd struck an ominous chord, both in the ranks and back on the home front. Visions of rice paddy's danced in the heads of military wives, mothers, and children back home - and public support for the war waned.

The GOP, which is now irrevocably shackled to the fate of the Iraq conflict, would ask that our media portray it as a continuous parade of roses, kittens, and butterflies. They would ask that, rather than covering the dozens of people killed every day by bombs, bullets, and blades that the Media focus its attention on the electricity being on an extra 20 minutes this week or the fact that schools in Iraq are slightly less overcrowded now than they were a few months ago.

Fortunately or unfortunately, the media covers what is newsworthy. The ending of a human life is fundamentally more shocking, more interesting, and makes for better TV than the construction of a school. Our media exists to sell ads - to make a profit - and to increase shareholder profit. To do those things it must boost ratings and to boost ratings it must keep viewers riveted to their sets.

War is news worthy, war is frightening, war is really good television.

Unfortunately, there is a real lack of roses, butterflies, and kittens in a war zone.

Media bias? I think not. Death sells, war sells, and scandal sells.

When Clinton fired off salvos of missiles into Afghanistan in an attempt to kill Osama Bin Laden - the GOP cried "wag the dog," and the media turned their cameras on Monika Lewinski. Forgotten was the pursuance of a wanted terrorist. US lives weren’t on the line in the strikes - and besides - there was a SEX scandal to cover.

Where was your precious media bias then?

EDIT: Holy Crap! :holycrap: Did vtwahoo just cite an academic journal? :worship: Here I thought I was all bad-ass with my wikipedia citations and whatnot.

Edit 2: Oh, and a study from the Media Research Center - that's nice.
Wikipedia (on the Media Research Center) wrote: The Media Research Center (MRC) was founded in 1987 by L. Brent Bozell III. Leaders of America's conservative movement have long believed that within the national news media a strident liberal bias existed that influenced the public's understanding of critical issues. MRC documents what it claims is widespread liberal media bias in the American press.

On June 16, 1998, the MRC founded the Conservative News Service. CNSNews.com provides news articles for Townhall.com and other conservative websites for a subscription fee.

In July of 2002, MRC and affiliate Parents Television Council (PTC) paid an out-of-court settlement ending a lawsuit which had been launched by World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE) in November of 2000. WWE alleged 13 instances of defamation, copyright infringement and interference with prospective business relations after PTC produced a fundraising video using unauthorized WWE footage, falsely claimed WWE was responsible for the murders of four children, and falsely claimed advertisers had pulled their commercials from the show. MRC paid $3.5 million.

Media Research Center and David Thibault have been involved in questioning the validity of the circumstances in which Democratic Representative John Murtha received his purple hearts as a response to his criticisms of the U.S. War in Iraq.
I've snipped out irrelevant portions of the article - but if you want to read more, follow the link above.
Last edited by Killfile on Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by panasonic »

panasonic, you're right but the thing about it is that people more often or not rather know the bad news seeing that it more likely or not can have an affect on their lives. The positive things are usually stuff that applies to one or a select few while stuff like the war and so on are major factors in the lives of a lot of people.
you just proved my point that war (aka violence) is what people are interested in. this is pretty obvious in this forum since there are many debates about iraq here. as killfile said, the news is a business, people want to see war, sex, scandals, death etc.

since the people are asking for it, the news stations deliver it so that they get more money from ads
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Post by vtwahoo »

Killfile wrote:
When Clinton fired off salvos of missiles into Afghanistan in an attempt to kill Osama Bin Laden - the GOP cried "wag the dog," and the media turned their cameras on Monika Lewinski. Forgotten was the pursuance of a wanted terrorist. US lives weren’t on the line in the strikes - and besides - there was a SEX scandal to cover.

Where was your precious media bias then?
Yeah...wouldn't a liberal media have wanted to focus attention anywhere EXCEPT on a sex scandal destined to focus negative attention on a Democratic President?
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Post by ucrzymofo87 »

The media loves sex scandals the most! Look at Bill Clinton, the Catholic Church, Gary Condit, James McGreevy, etc.
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Post by Killfile »

So the media has a liberal bias.... except when there's a sex scandle involved.

Any other exceptions? Is that the definitive list?

Are there exceptions, for example, in the case of scandles that involve travel?
Maybe the media latches particularly hard onto scandles that relate to real-estate?

I ask this because the Big Bad Bogey Man of "liberal media bias" seems to be everywhere -- but, like the Bogey Man, seems to vanish into thin air when we point our flashlight at the numerous specific examples in which the media is unfavorable to the left, the democratic party, or progressives as a whole.

Anyway, since the Right always trots out some "well known" exception to the "liberal media bias" whenever someone points out harsh treatment of a progressive or progressive issue - I thought that you might be able to prove a complete list of these exceptions so that we can study them and get to the bottom of this mystery.

I mean - maybe the libreal bias exists, but doesn't influence coverage when we're dealing with words that end in X. Or maybe it's words that have only one vowel? Perhaps it's linked to the Scrabble Word Score of a key word - so Lewinski has a word score of 15.

In any case, I'm sure there's a pattern. Just clue us all in will ya?
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Post by ucrzymofo87 »

"Living for the future is more important than trying to avenge the past...i guess." -Puck
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Post by Killfile »

I ask you a question for clarification and you respond with what, for all intents and purposes, seems to be a blog.

That's not helpful at all, nor does it answer my question. I have no intention of reading a year and a half of a blog that picks out stories that disadvantage the right in order to get my answer.

More to the point, I belive that one would have to be starting with some seriously flawed assumptions if they were to believe that media coverage in these past few years - inarguably some of the most corrupt, nepotistic, and inept since Nixon - could do anything but disadvantage the right.

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Post by ucrzymofo87 »

Well if you don't want to research to find your answer, then you won't get very far.
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Post by Killfile »

I'm more than willing to research for my answer. Research leads one to the inevitable conclusion that the media favors not the Left but the Right.

Now if you want me to read something with no editorial process, no system of review, no accountability, and no credibility to get my answer - then I would be forced to question of what use that answer would be - as it would be nothing but the ill-informed opinion of someone of little to no reputation or consequence.
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Post by ucrzymofo87 »

With all due respect, you trash any source I bring up, accredited or not, so there is no point in me trying to find a source that will please your liberal viewpoint.
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Post by vtwahoo »

I seem to remember someone with several post graduate degrees in research methods telling me that research involved more than a google search. Research involves finding scholarly sources that have been peer reviewed to guarantee their methods, sources, and logic. The following is a list of articles found in peer reviewed journals that conclude that there is no liberal bias in the media (it's abbreviated as I found in my initial research on the subject a 123 page list of sources backing my argument and pulverizing yours). I challenge you to find similar sources to the contrary in equally reputable sources (just a note: you can't use the Claremont Institute...well...you can but then you're going to get laughed at...a lot...)

TI: Title
The Impact of Media Bias: How Editorial Slant Affects Voters
AU: Author
Druckman, James N; Parkin, Michael
AF: Affiliation
Northwestern U, Evanston, IL
SO: Source
The Journal of Politics, 2005, 67, 4, Nov, 1030-1049.

TI: Title
Embedding the Truth: A Cross-Cultural Analysis of Objectivity and
Television Coverage of the Iraq War
AU: Author
Aday, Sean; Livingston, Steven; Hebert, Maeve
AF: Affiliation
School Media & Public Affairs, George Washington U, Washington,
DC
SO: Source
The Harvard International Journal of Press/Politics, 2005, 10, 1,
winter, 3-21.

TI: Title
A Fair Test of Media Bias: Party, Race, and Gender in Coverage of the
1992 House Banking Scandal
AU: Author
Niven, David
AF: Affiliation
Florida Atlantic U
SO: Source
Polity, 2004, 36, 4, July, 637-649.

TI: Title
Are the Networks Biased? "Calling" States in the 2000 Presidential
Election
AU: Author
Mixon, J Wilson, Jr; Sen, Amit; Stephenson, E Frank
AF: Affiliation
Dept Economics, Berry Coll, Mount Berry, GA
SO: Source
Public Choice, 2004, 118, 1-2, Jan, 53-59.

TI: Title
Reply to Kurt and Gladys Engel Lang
AU: Author
Herman, Edward S; Chomsky, Noam
AF: Affiliation
c/o Chomsky-Massachusetts Instit Technology, Cambridge
SO: Source
Political Communication, 2004, 21, 1, Jan-Mar, 103-107.

TI: Title
U.S. National Identity, Political Elites, and a Patriotic Press
following September 11
AU: Author
Hutcheson, John; Domke, David; Billeaudeaux, Andre; Garland, Philip
AF: Affiliation
Dept Communication, U Washington, Seattle
SO: Source
Political Communication, 2004, 21, 1, Jan-Mar, 27-50.

TI: Title
Noam Chomsky and the Manufacture of Consent for American Foreign
Policy
AU: Author
Lang, Kurt; Lang, Gladys Engel
AF: Affiliation
Dept Sociology, U Washington, Seattle
SO: Source
Political Communication, 2004, 21, 1, Jan-Mar, 93-101.

TI: Title
Framing the Lewinsky Affair: Third-Person Judgments by Scandal Frame
AU: Author
Joslyn, Mark R
AF: Affiliation
Dept Political Science, U Kansas, Lawrence
SO: Source
Political Psychology, 2003, 24, 4, Dec, 829-844.


TI: Title
The Impact of Individual and Interpersonal Factors on Perceived News
Media Bias
AU: Author
Eveland, William P , Jr; Shah, Dhavan V
AF: Affiliation
School Journalism & Communication, Ohio State U, Columbus
SO: Source
Political Psychology, 2003, 24, 1, Mar, 101-117.

TI: Title
Attempted Objectivity: An Analysis of the New York Times and Ha'aretz
and Their Portrayals of the Palestinian-Israeli Conflict
AU: Author
Viser, Matt
SO: Source
The Harvard International Journal of Press/Politics, 2003, 8, 4, fall,
114-120.

TI: Title
Mere Reflection or Real Bias? An Analysis of Guests on "Nightline",
"MacNeil/Lehrer", and "This Week with David Brinkley".
AU: Author
Stephenson, Ralph Edwin, III
AF: Affiliation
American U
SO: Source
Dissertation Abstracts International, A: The Humanities and Social
Sciences, 2001, 62, 2, Aug, 759-A.

TI: Title
Bias in the News: Partisanship and Negativity in Media Coverage of
Presidents George Bush and Bill Clinton
AU: Author
Niven, David
AF: Affiliation
Dept Political Science, Florida Atlantic U, Boca Raton
SO: Source
Harvard International Journal of Press/Politics, 2001, 6, 3, summer,
31-46.


You know what's great...having done a graduate-level independent study on this stuff.
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Post by Killfile »

ucrzymofo87 wrote:With all due respect, you trash any source I bring up, accredited or not, so there is no point in me trying to find a source that will please your liberal viewpoint.
Really -- I'd settle for one that at least pretends to approach the topic from an objective viewpoint.

When you quote a website called "ThatLiberalMedia" it's pretty irrelevant because it's clear that the author came to the table seeking to prove that a liberal media bias exists.

The sheer volume of material makes proving ANY agenda trivial. A worthwhile resource would come to the table to investigate -- not to prove a point.

Incidentally, that's what most of the journals vtwahoo posted do (I love my still-open university journal account).

Everything you've brought to the table thus far has either been by a right-wing think tank or by someone seeking to prove allegations of a Leftist media. Both provide strong arguments - which I would expect, but none provide strong evidence and strong methods to complement them.
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Post by ucrzymofo87 »

They do not fit your ideological viewpoint, therefore you do not respect them. If I quote the National Review, an accredited source that is highly accurate, you shoot it down. If I quote the Washington Times, another highly accurate and accredited source, you shoot it down. There seems to be little sense in using sources unless they are the New York Times or the Nation, which are objective by ALL accounts.

A list of books also does not prove a thing. Those are books written by liberals for liberals. They are not objective. Wise up madam.

Give Me a Break : How I Exposed Hucksters, Cheats, and Scam Artists and Became the Scourge of the Liberal Media... by John Stossel is a wonderful account of liberal media bias as is

Bias: A CBS Insider Exposes How the Media Distort the News by Bernard Goldberg

but of course, they're liars
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Post by arke »

No, the problem is that your sources are written by someone furthering their agenda. They aren't peer-reviewed (I'm assuming you know what that means, despite you ignoring vtwahoo's list of peer-reviewed journals).

Also, amusingly enough, John Stossel is a libertarian; everything is liberal to him. He's also a poor choice to back up your points.
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Post by newbified »

Crzy, the problem with your sources is they are extremely biased. It's a blog, with biased opinion formed in an editorial style. It also has 22 months of archived opinionated news stories. If you're going to cite a website such as this, why not just ask Killfile to ask O'Reilly for his completely unbiased opinion in everything he ever talked about, and eventually he'll get to the point we're on now. If you don't tell anyone where you want them to look, pointing them at 22 months of archived editorials isn't useful at all.

Oh, and I found this funny:
How many blacks are successful at the game and also graduate from college? Most simply aren't qualified to manage a hotdog stand much less a billion dollar operation. Not a racist statement, a statement of fact. Listen to the fifth year senior (ball player) at any major college talk and it's easy to understand, they are sorely missing the "education" part of college.
That's a user comment based on the idea of equal opportunity for coaches for college level sports. Very unbiased.

Now, you citing a website like that calls for a rebuttal. So here you are:

http://ihateunitedstates.blogspot.com/

Not only does that website (read blog, editorial (unless you're crzy, then it's a legitimate site)) talk about how right the media is, but it also has the answer to life and the reason why we're here! It's amazing!

What? You want me to tell you which parts to read? What's wrong with reading 2 years of editorials (read garbage) and spending (read wasting) hours of your time doing something fun! (read tedious).
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Post by vtwahoo »

ucrzymofo87 wrote:There seems to be little sense in using sources unless they are the New York Times or the Nation, which are objective by ALL accounts.
You know what's really cool though? If you look at the article below you'll see that the New York Times isn't at all objective. Guess what? It's biased, in this case AGAINST the Palestinians.

'Cause you know how much liberals just hate the Palestinians.

TI: Title
Attempted Objectivity: An Analysis of the New York Times and Ha'aretz
and Their Portrayals of the Palestinian-Israeli Conflict
AU: Author
Viser, Matt
SO: Source
The Harvard International Journal of Press/Politics, 2003, 8, 4, fall,
114-120.
ucrzymofo87 wrote:A list of books also does not prove a thing. Those are books written by liberals for liberals. They are not objective. Wise up madam.

Give Me a Break : How I Exposed Hucksters, Cheats, and Scam Artists and Became the Scourge of the Liberal Media... by John Stossel is a wonderful account of liberal media bias as is

Bias: A CBS Insider Exposes How the Media Distort the News by Bernard Goldberg


No...THOSE are books that are not objective. The list that I gave you contians articles in peer reviewed journals---there is a difference. You see...you can tell that they're journal articles becuase I actually gave you the journal in which they were published. That answers a key question though---of course you didn't actually READ any of those articles nor did you read their publically available abstracts. Pathetic really.

Now, I believe that I asked you to provide me with one article from a peer reviewed journal that demonstrated your case. That means, in words similar to your own, that I don't want a list of books, websites, or newspaper articles written by conservatives for conservatives. You went after Killfile for not researching his sources. Put your money where your mouth is. If you can't, admit that you got schooled on this one.
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Post by Killfile »

I just want to reiterate that I'm more than willing to do reserach. I've read my fair share of Conservitive books, essays, and periodicles. I've tuned my radio to Rush, Hannity, and (God help me) even Savage Nation on long drives.

I've also balanced that with an examination of sources, both academic and otherwise, which dispute the so called "liberal media bias."

Vtwahoo has a good point - I've done my research and I've done it on both sides. I don't want to spend a few days reading through some random guy's blog, but that doesn't make me a poor researcher.

She's right though - put up or shut up, as the saying goes.
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Post by vtwahoo »

Killfile wrote:I just want to reiterate that I'm more than willing to do reserach.
But he's also more than willing to let me do it for him thus sparing him the time and effort.

Free rider...
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