Zodd Theory

Post by **Shisho** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:37 pm

Well, I reread Berserk again a little bit ago. I was thinking about how a lot of Gatz's victories are highly situational. Like using something that occurs in the past or present as an advantage he normally wouldn't have. AKA - Using hostages, distractions, surroundings, old injuries, etc.

It all seems to tie in sometimes in amazing and unlikely ways.

Then I was wondering about Zodd and how he lost his horn to Griffith, and at one time he used it to parry an attack from Gatz. I have a theory that Zodd's downfall in this series is all going to occur because he lost that horn. The reader will be sitting there thinking "Wow, if only he didn't lose his horn he would've won that fight." or something to that effect.

If it's Gatz for example, he'll realize the weakness and take advantage of it. Then he will have only won because of Griffith inflicting that injury.

Post by **LordMune** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:14 pm

A sound theory, I can definetly see Miura approaching the final encounter with Zodd from such a symbolically ironic angle.

But what's up with "Gatz"?

Post by **Libaax** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:34 pm

Nah it will take more than a lack of a horn to beat Zodd.

Griffith is a god thats why he beat Zodd.

Guts is very skillful and strong but still he is human,he will have a big problem with Zodd.

He will beat him with his skill,power not cause of Zodd losing a horn.

Post by **Buzkashi** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:09 pm

Thats hard to say. I think Gutts is evenly matched with Zodds human form. But I dont think it will be Gutts who finishes off Zodd. If anyone it has to be Skullknight.

Post by **LordMune** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:27 pm

When did this stop being a discussion about how Zodd blocks attacks with his horns and Guts' victories being largely, er, circumstancial, and start being a versus thread?

Post by **Eldo** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:41 pm

I'd have to agree with Buz that Skull Knight would have the final blow. They have centuries long vendetta, and Miura wouldn't rob SK from the glory and let Guts sorely settle it.

Post by **Istvan** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:28 pm

I'd have to agree with Buz that Skull Knight would have the final blow. They have centuries long vendetta, and Miura wouldn't rob SK from the glory and let Guts sorely settle it.

Maybe, but on the other hand it's already fairly well established that the Skull Knight is better then Zodd (though maybe only a little bit) so it might not be too climatic to have them fight. After all, the fight were the strongest apostle dies ought to be really dramatic, and for that Guts might be a better choice. The lack of a horn might even come into play, since like all great warriors, Guts does try to use anything he can think of for an advantage in a fight.

Post by **grimStar** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 2:28 am

I actually think SK would love to see Guts defeat Zodd. Imagine a mere human defeating a near god-like Zodd. That would be a big blow to Zodd for an eternity.

Notice also how SK seems to "father" Guts in some ways. Giving him his old armor, and giving him some mentoring.

Post by **Chaos_Wanderer** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:22 am

I Disagree about Guts victories being "highly situational". Every great fighter knows how to adapt to his surroundings and exploit opportunities. Guts, Zodd and Serpico have all had highly situational advantages against each other. ie: guts used a body, Tree Bark, and a cracked sword to beat the leader of the black dog's after they rescued Griffith. When Zodd's sword cracked during the battle on The Hill of Swords, he was lucky there happened to be one next to him or he would have had to transform earlier. And finally, Serpico seems to be an expert at creating situational advantages for himself. It's not luck that has gotten Guts so far, its skill.

Now as far as Guts vs Zodd in the future, i doubt it will pan out that way. They have a Warrior vs Warrior relationship but don't have anything Personal against each other.

Post by **nimrod** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:56 pm

I belive that Zodd only live to fight the strong, he like to fight Guts and SK but i don't think he would find mush joy fighting Griffith or Serpico due to they using a more technical way of fighting.

From what i guess do Zodd know a lot what will happened, so his ambition can even be that he know that Griffith one day will turn into the ultimate warrior and only defend him now to get to fight him later. Can also be that he know that a lot of strong persons will cross Griffith path.

Post by **Loeviz** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:06 pm

My thought over this is that SK will finish Zodd off.
But I didn't ponder the idea that his lost horn would be his downfall, the possibility is there no doubt about it

Post by **Istvan** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:39 pm

My thought over this is that SK will finish Zodd off.
But I didn't ponder the idea that his lost horn would be his downfall, the possibility is there no doubt about it

It's entirely possible, and it would be like Guts to exploit any weakness he can think of, but on the other hand, I'm not sure how practical it would be. I mean, Zodd is also an amazingly skilled warrior. He would certainly take his loss of a horn into acount when fighting. Do you really think he'd allow himself to be manuevered into a situation in the battle where that is the reason he looses?

Post by **azn_l10n** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:05 am

Eldo wrote:I'd have to agree with Buz that Skull Knight would have the final blow. They have centuries long vendetta, and Miura wouldn't rob SK from the glory and let Guts sorely settle it.

And the both of them, SK and Zodd have a missing horn each. Well, not so much a horn for the SK but take a look at his Collar in volume 26 chapter 219 page 74 (after he throws something - the horn of the collar at the female god hand).

I just noticed his missing horn on the collar today. Interesting.

Post by **Loeviz** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:15 am

Istvan wrote:
My thought over this is that SK will finish Zodd off.
But I didn't ponder the idea that his lost horn would be his downfall, the possibility is there no doubt about it
It's entirely possible, and it would be like Guts to exploit any weakness he can think of, but on the other hand, I'm not sure how practical it would be. I mean, Zodd is also an amazingly skilled warrior. He would certainly take his loss of a horn into acount when fighting. Do you really think he'd allow himself to be manuevered into a situation in the battle where that is the reason he looses?

You got a point here. Zodd is definitely experienced enough so he wouldn't get blind to the fact that his horn is now gone forever and thus makes him more vurnerable at that spot.
But you don´t really know either if he get´s into a frenzy while fighting and forgets all about that it´s gone (He´s had the horn for a couple off 100 years). Yes I know, it´s highly unlikely. But there is a small chance

Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:00 pm

Weird that it doesn't grow back btw =/.

Post by **Loeviz** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:31 pm

I think that it´ll take a few years before it will grow out again at all

Post by **Sn4ke** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:03 pm

Hm. Its a pretty interesting theory and a good explanation on why Miura took away his horn, but, I dont think that Zodd, losing because of his horn is plausible to his character. As Istvan said, Zodd is a very skilled warrior and I am pretty sure that he wouldn't go into a fight without knowing a strategy to stop his opponent from exploiting his "weakness".

However, while reading the responses, I came up with my own theory. If you look back in the first encounter with Zodd, Giffith and Guts were the first two humans who were capable of injuring him. You can then link this to his first known loss, where he admits defeat to Griffith. My theory then is that Guts will not kill Zodd, but take his other horn and be the 2nd person to defeat him. This theory might work because Miura likes to use symbolism to past events, but I could be wrong and this could be just a load of crap.

Post by **donny** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:57 pm

about growing the horn back:
it seems sencible that if he can regenerate enough to fix his arms back on he could do the same to his horn, or re-grow it as some said, bu maybe the reason is that it was Grifith who took it off meaning:
a) it can't be fixed after a god hand or
b) he will not grow it back for he lost fair and now he is following the only person who could beat him, and this is a symbol of that

anyway I think that SK and Zodd are fighint so long just beacuse Zodd likes to fight strong people and thair paths keep crossing (of course there might be other things froom past, I don't know) like around the eclipse...
SK has a strong vendeta for Void that's the only sure thing...

agree about the symbolism otherwise, and agree that Zodd is experienced and that he can handle well without it, but if he was to fight Guts in the Beast form every little thing would matter, wouldn't it?

Post by **Istvan** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:03 am

about growing the horn back:
it seems sencible that if he can regenerate enough to fix his arms back on he could do the same to his horn, or re-grow it as some said

The fact that it can't just be stuck back on (like his arm) might just be because it's a horn. He appears to have super-human healing abilities, but things like horns are dead, so they don't heal. Maybe it will grow back eventually, or maybe not, I don't really know anything about horns. Do animals such as bulls regrow their horns if they're cut off? I think so but I admit I don't have any real knowledge of the subject.

Post by **akari** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:58 pm

If I recall correctly, Zodd lost his horn while sleeping - maybe that's why he can't grow it back...

Post by **Zman1** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:14 pm

Well I think that in a way Guts is becoming more and more like SK. So maybe
SK will die and Guts will take his spot. Guts will kill Zodd and then someone will take his place like maybe griffith.

Post by **Loeviz** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:38 pm

Zman1 wrote:Well I think that in a way Guts is becoming more and more like SK. So maybe
SK will die and Guts will take his spot. Guts will kill Zodd and then someone will take his place like maybe griffith.

Griffith can´t take Zodds place, he´s a god hand which Zodd is not.

Post by **Zman1** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:51 pm

But griffith still could fight guts for a very long time.

Post by **Istvan** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:18 pm

As things stand, Griffith could almost certainly kill Guts if he really wanted to. Guts would have to be significantly better then Zodd (and Zodd's monster form is still better then Gutts) to have a chance at defeating Griffith.

Post by **Zman1** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:58 pm

Maybe with the armor Guts could kill zodd