War Machine wrote:I'll say it again, piracy is not the same as stealing because it doesn't deprive the owner from [sic] his work.
That was a metaphor illustrating that some actions that seem harmless, when repeated by many people, can have a large effect. The fact that the specific example I used was one that involved physical theft was incidental. I am well aware of the distinctions between the concepts of intellectual and physical theft. Do try to avoid oversimplifying my arguments, please.
How many times do we have to tell you this. No, that's not true, you are wrong in making that assumption. I know it's difficult to accept since the MPAA, RIAA and many other organizations have been spewing that lie for years, but not once has it been proven.
Saying the same thing over and over again does not make it so. It's simple common sense. Several people IN THIS VERY THREAD have admitted that they never, or very seldom, buy the anime and manga that they pirate. I can't think of any possible reason why they'd be lying about that. Personal experience reveals that these peoples' attitudes are representative of many other people I have met in several other communities online and off.
I am basing my arguments on a combination of common sense and personal experience, not anything having to do with the MPAA and RIAA. I'll thank you to stop making groundless accusations on that point. I find it insulting and counterproductive to our discussion. When you're debating with a representative of those groups, you can bring up their rhetoric. On this thread it's off-topic.
Isn't working at a library the same as sharing something over the internet? You're working to share an artist's work without his expressed consent (even though it's legal for the library to do so) just the same as internet pirates yet you dare put yourself on a moral high ground on the basis of quantity? I hate to brake [sic] it to you, but libraries are not few or small by any measure, [sic] according to the American Library Association, in the US, there's [sic] 9,214 public libraries, 3,617 academic libraries, 1,150 government libraries and 99,180 school libraries. Taking every single library into account, you have 122,356 libraries in the US (
Source). Are you going to tell me that the millions of people (in the US alone) who make use of libraries aren't significant?
Compared to Internet piracy? No, the scale is not even NEAR the same. Once again, this is common sense. Compare and contrast:
The Library Model:
The library buys a copy of an anime DVD. I check it out, watch it once, and then return it. A finite number of people who happen to live physically close to that particular library have the opportunity to do the same before it is lost or damaged and removed from circulation. If I like it enough that I want to have a permanent copy of it in my collection, I buy it along with the other volumes in the series. If I don't, then that's the end of it. The other people who checked it out either do the same, or they don't. The creators receive compensation for EVERY copy of that DVD that's purchased by EVERY library that carries it, often multiple copies per branch. Using your own numbers, that means well over 100,000 copies of that DVD sold in the US alone, PLUS however many of those people decided they wanted a personal copy. Even if that's only 1% of those who checked it out, that's significant.
The Irresponsible Pirate Model:
Someone buys a copy of the same DVD, rips it, and puts it on the Internet. A theoretically unlimited number of people may download it. Once they do, they now have a permanent copy that they may keep for as long as they please. There is no incentive for them to ever buy the legitimate version, and so they do not. This is EXACTLY the model that multiple people, again IN THIS VERY THREAD, have admitted to following. The ratio between the number of copies sold (as few as one) and the number of people who enjoyed it without paying for it (unlimited) is VASTLY different from the above model.
The Responsible Pirate Model:
As above, someone buys a copy of the a DVD. In this case, it is a DVD available only in Japan. This person rips it, subtitles it, and puts it on the Internet. Because I have no legal ability to obtain this content, I download it. I watch enough to get an idea of whether I like it enough to pay money for it if I am afforded that opportunity in the future, maybe an episode or two. If I decide that I don't, I delete it immediately and that's the end of it, the same as if I'd borrowed it from the library or rented it and then returned it. Okay, maybe I should've been more patient and waited until it was available legally in the U.S., but that could've taken years and my willpower failed. I'm not proud of it, but I can live with it on my conscience.
But let's say that I DO like it enough to pay money for it. I believe that it is a high-quality piece of art worthy of my monetary support. I continue to watch it beyond the first few episodes. As soon as it is licensed and released in my home country, I immediately purchase the legitimate version and delete the pirated one. The pirated version has served its purpose, I have an awesome piece of anime to add to my collection, the artist has been supported. All is well with the cosmos.
Now, the first and third models are acceptable. The middle one is not. The middle one is the cancer that is killing the anime industry.
If you follow the third model-- maybe not perfectly, but at least TRY to make some effort to support the things that you purport to be a fan of-- then I have no beef with you except to say that I think you are greatly underestimating the number of people who follow the middle model and the effect that they are having on the anime industry and the entertainment industry in general. And ultimately, a factual disagreement like that is one I can live with.
It seems that there are really two things we are arguing about here: the morality of piracy and the effect it has on the anime industry. Let's leave aside the effect of piracy on the anime industry for the moment. Neither of us is going to convince the other on that point. When it comes to the more important of the two points, that of morality, my concern is merely that people who purport to be fans of art have a responsibility to make a reasonable effort, within their abilities, to support the continued success of that art. Details aside, can we at least agree on that fundamental premise?