Skullkracker wrote:Well, my two cents...in more than one lines.
Great. I read your post, however, and not all of it made sense to me. You're right, however, it isn't worth much.
First of all, you and various others mentioned that a Christian must not only have faith, but also follow the values of Christianity. And you and various others stated that if they don't follow the values of Christianity, they are not Christians, regardless of believing and having faith in God. What psi has pointed out is, this man has killed someone in the name of God, and his religious community supported it. And since we know that 'thou shalt not kill' is one of the values, then by yours and others' definition, the Christian murderer, and in extension, the church who supports and stands by the murderer, are not Christian. See the problem here?
If you notice, psi's questions are not intended to be answered in a standalone way, but more like they are linked together.
Skullkracker wrote:Yes.
Did they do what they did becouse of what they believe in?
Some of them yes. Were they really fanatic? Mostly yes.
Is it becouse of their theology?
Yes, and I must emphasize: THEIR theology.
Some people want to bend the words of the Bible and even create their own for their twisted thinking. This doesn't mean I hereby criminate every christian who doesn't think like me. But I've even read about suicidal christian sects (which is explicitly a sin in God's eyes), and it mae me sick.
Did they use faith to justify their sins?
Yes, even if their motives were plainly against what they claimed to believe.
And yet, they are still Christians, nevertheless. Using their faith as a currency to contine to do bad things. However, by yours and others definition, they can't be. They believe in the Christian faith. When you say 'yes, Christians has done and continue to do bad things in God's name', you're acknowledging that they are Christians. You are capable of condemning other groups who proudly proclaim themselves as 'Christians', but don't seem to be doing that here, when you answered yes to psi's question. Looks a bit paradoxal.
You may want to answer 'no, they can't be Christians if they have done annd continue to do bad things in God's name, because it's against the values of Christianity' next time. That's for when you don't want to look like a hypocrite and contradict yourself. Unless, there are some 'bad' values in Christianity that we don't know about as atheists that are secretly tucked away and hidden like the bloodline of Christ.
Skullkracker wrote:Well, it is hard to comment on the military topic. You want to know if someone who killed on the battlefield can be true in the eyes of God?
Never did think about that, so I cannot judge that. Could I even do that?
It seems that you can't be judgmental in this case, but you can be judgmental when it comes to deciding that extremists Christian groups can't be Christian. If memory serves me right, previously, the lot of you Christians posted that KKK and other Christian related hate groups aren't Christians, and remain adamant about that position. You seemed to be able to make a judgement there, as you have your own definition and criterion at what a Christian must be. However, you can't decide when it comes to the military, who had broken the commandments in order to fight for the country and it's citizen's safety. These are the people who have taken lives which goes against the Christian values.
Skullkracker wrote:So as far as I can tell: You're asking whether those who do bad things in the name of God believe the same things I do?
Some of them: yes. And unfortunately they believe various other things as well that they either made up, or got otherwise deluded, or corrupted by power, wealth, blind hate, or are mental in some way.
I cannot say that faith makes you perfect. Nothing ever can on this earth. But I know many that don't hit the media, who are changed by the deeper meanings of the word of God. They reject violence, show respect and compassion toward other people, and are generally happy to be freed from the burdens of their sins. These people die for their faith (in a martyr way), not kill for it.
I'm not saying it is easy to tell the difference between two apples, but the on with a bad taste is very probnably rotten inside.
As far as I can tell, those who commit crimes in the name of God, who also believes the same things you do, are also Christians. Yet, as I mentioned numerous times above, you, and Zoddnos1fan pulling out quotes from the bible, has said that a murderer cannot be a Christian. It is therefore, that the individual who murdered the atheist cannot be a Christian ever again, since he has commited murder. Regardless if he had similar beliefs as you had prior to this incident, went to church regularly, prayed, it seems that he is now exiled from the Christian faith. Am I right? Or are you incapable of making a decision and leave it to God? More convenient for you to leave an answer to someone who can't speak up.
I'm not going to bother to quote the bulk of your last paragraph. I can scarcely make sense of it, nor did you answer psi's question. You have sidestepped the question with your stories in a hope that it will somehow link up to a rather obscure answer. All I can say is, if you can hear what God says, you're insane, and it is the society's view as well. It is also a legitimate defence for when you kill someone. I would, however, quote this:
Skullkracker wrote:On more thing in defense of Zodd: he was trying to point out what the Bible says about some of the topics, so what a christian standpoint ought to be. Don’t bash him for quoting the Bible, it’s not l’art pour l’art wisecracking.
Zoddsno1fan is a moron for quoting the bible. Simple as that. He did not even bother to address other people's points, and is rather close-minded with his own, despite the flaws we have pointed out. When you quote the bible in a debate that relies on fact, you lose automatically, especially with the hypocrisy pointed out. Christians, in my experience, are alright with hypocrisy, and ignorance is ultimately their bliss. Or they counter a hypocrisy with another hypocrisy.
Zoddsno1fan is constantly embarassing himself and is losing his credibility in the argument by not addressing or participating
in the argument. It seems he is quite content with keeping himself locked in his little delirium of a world, with impenetrable walls filled with rainbows and guitars and prayer.
I guess the reason why you're stucking up for him is probably because he's Christian. Christians stick together, right? No matter how wrong he is.
psi29a wrote:Again, respond to the questions directly asked of you otherwise you will lose your posting privileges. No one likes their questions being ignored.
Wow, psi, give him a break. He has so much to read about how wrong he is. Since he can't form a valid opinion of his own, let him phone a friend.