Evil Genius

Buzkashi wrote:

The Last Spartan wrote:
Oh, and assholes complain without backing it up.

No thats eldo...

Why do I need to back myself up? I'm always right.

He has a point. It doesn't say Dr. Eldo on the degree just because it was photoshopped that way. Wait......

Femto wrote:

ZoddsNo1Fan wrote:Yea, hes naturally an asshole. Dont take it personal. And about the anime being aired on late-night tv. I mean, true maybe if adult swim would seperate than maybe it would air but right now i dont think they would allow an agreement for the anime or vice versa. Maybe on some rhetro channel no one knows about..i dunno.

Who the fuck are you again?

The only guy to donate to Mindwerks.

ZoddsNo1Fan wrote:Who the F*** am i? ill tell you who i am!!!!!!!!!! i am the one, the only ZoddsNo1Fan and if ya talk like that again to me ill smack your face so shaddup and dont talk your asshole-ish self to deth asswhole.

However, that's just stupid, joke or not.

saw the anime first. liked it enough to watch it about 5 times in 3 days. but after that didn't think about berserk again until borders started a manga section. picked up darkhorse's translaton of the manga and can't stop thinking about the series now. im even buying the japanese version now cause its so cool.

the manga has had a larger effect on me so thats how im voting.

Hmm, this is a good discussion, other than the fact that it's been dead for two years. Anyways, In my opinion both the anime and the manga contribute to the Berserk world in different ways. Because I saw the anime first, I enjoy the manga in a much more livelier way, as I see it. I can hear the music Susumu Hirosawa wrote when I read each page. When I read the words that Guts says I can feel them much better because of my memory of the power the English voice actor had. The manga is not doubt written better than the anime, but as adaptations go, it's top notch.

The Herald wrote:Hmm, this is a good discussion, other than the fact that it's been dead for two years. Anyways, In my opinion both the anime and the manga contribute to the Berserk world in different ways. Because I saw the anime first, I enjoy the manga in a much more livelier way, as I see it. I can hear the music Susumu Hirosawa wrote when I read each page. When I read the words that Guts says I can feel them much better because of my memory of the power the English voice actor had. The manga is not doubt written better than the anime, but as adaptations go, it's top notch.

Agree.

And if it wasn't for the anime, I would have never found the manga.

And BTW....Eldo is not always right. Only Istvan is.....(at least most of the time)

You can only say the anime if you have seen it first. Then its magical and perfect. If you see only an anime you cant rate it too highly.


IMO the anime is the worst anime version i have seen a good manga.

They changed things,it looked horrible worse than 70s anime i have seen.

The best looking and hardcore manga it cant compete with it.

Im glad though there isnt a new anime. These days they censor DN, Berserk would butchered totaly with its demons,ugly things that happen.

There are only a few anime I've seen whose manga I'm also familiar with, and of those, I'd rate the Berserk anime the best adaptation. It's true that the animation often wasn't the best, but they were obviously working with a severely restricted budget, and at least when they had to cut corners, they mostly did it with some style (such as the hand-drawn, sketchy look of some of the still frames). The pacing was generally excellent; far too many manga-to-anime adaptations go the DBZ route of stretching out a couple of pages into minutes and minutes and sometimes episode after episode of long, drawn-out tedium. There was no filler to speak of; the adaptation was very faithful, replicating the manga scene for scene and often shot-for-shot. Yes, they did cut stuff out near the end, but I felt they had a good sense of what could be excised and what needed to be kept. Yes, the Skull Knight and the Bakiraka are awesome, but they serve no real plot purpose if you're going to end the show at the Eclipse. And if you're going to have to restrict your series to one season, they definitely chose the best portion of the manga to adapt: the Golden Age is relatively self-contained and left few loose ends when all is said and done.

Compare that to, say, Gantz, which was beautifully animated but terribly paced, adapted one of the less interesting parts of the manga, and descended into one of the most terrible filler endings known to man in the last five episodes. Or to Naruto, with its horribly dragged-out fights and its interminable pointless filler arcs. Yeah, considering the competition, I'd definitely call the Berserk anime one of the better adaptations out there.

Libaax wrote:You can only say the anime if you have seen it first. Then its magical and perfect. If you see only an anime you cant rate it too highly.


IMO the anime is the worst anime version i have seen a good manga.

They changed things,it looked horrible worse than 70s anime i have seen.

The best looking and hardcore manga it cant compete with it.

Im glad though there isnt a new anime. These days they censor DN, Berserk would butchered totaly with its demons,ugly things that happen.

.

For what they were going for, I thought they did an excellent job with the anime. Yes, the art had some problems, but as hbi2k points out, they did a reasonable job there for the resources they had. As for cutting some parts, and changing a few things, bear in mind that Miura intended the whole anime as just an advertisement for his manga. Given that, I thought the choice of what to show (and what not to) was very well executed. Ultimately it's a matter of opinion, I suppose, but even after reading the manga I still think the anime is excellent.

And BTW....Eldo is not always right. Only Istvan is.....(at least most of the time)

Why thank you, kind sir.

I haven't seen the anime yet. The only exposure I had to it was the first two episodes years ago and recently the Abridged series by hbi2k. And of course, the occasional music video.

What I also enjoyed about the anime was the stream lined look for Guts. He is very fleshy looking in the manga, which I greatly appreciate, but in many of the frames in the anime Guts just looks so powerful in his emotions and facial expressions. I actually like the anime Griffith better because he looks more masculine, but still effeminate. In the manga he almost looks like he has lipstick. I respect the artistic license that Miura has, and Griffith's creepy look really works, but I still like his more natural look in the anime. I also find Judeau to be more awesome in the anime too, must be the presentation. Though, I kinda do wonder what Puck would have been like in the anime.

Libaax wrote:You can only say the anime if you have seen it first. Then its magical and perfect. If you see only an anime you cant rate it too highly.


IMO the anime is the worst anime version i have seen a good manga.

They changed things,it looked horrible worse than 70s anime i have seen.

The best looking and hardcore manga it cant compete with it.

Im glad though there isnt a new anime. These days they censor DN, Berserk would butchered totaly with its demons,ugly things that happen.

You're insane.

Whether you liked the animation or not, it was certainly on par with anything else at the time. You said they changed things, yet IMO captured the essence of the Golden Age perfectly. And in regards to what was changed, putting characters in like the Skull Night or Puck would have been pointless considering their signifigance and role in the Berserk storyline would not be realized until after the anime ended. Also the score of the anime was brilliant, and really complemented the scenes to which it played, especially the haunting music that went along with what played out during the eclipse. Emotionally it really drew me in.

So what animes have you considered to be good (or at least better) adaptations of a corresponding Manga of a similar genre?

The Prince wrote: You're insane.

Whether you liked the animation or not, it was certainly on par with anything else at the time. You said they changed things, yet IMO captured the essence of the Golden Age perfectly. And in regards to what was changed, putting characters in like the Skull Night or Puck would have been pointless considering their signifigance and role in the Berserk storyline would not be realized until after the anime ended. Also the score of the anime was brilliant, and really complemented the scenes to which it played, especially the haunting music that went along with what played out during the eclipse. Emotionally it really drew me in.

So what animes have you considered to be good (or at least better) adaptations of a corresponding Manga of a similar genre?

Have to agree with the Prince here. It certainly had nice animations, although I am no way near an expert when it comes to judging animations. But anyway, the golden age arc was captured perfectly on celluloid. I can't think of a major thing they left out there, besides some hot Caska action

Edit: Oh yeah they left out the Black Dogs and Wyald.

While yeah, there was no Puck in the first episode, and the first 3 volumes of the manga didn't make it to the anime version properly, the anime really, really served as one big appetizer for the manga. Especially the ending.

The eclipse itself was really horrifying. Up till now pretty much the most disgusting and terrifying thing I have seen in film/anime. For like 20 episodes it was all fine and war, yeah Zodd came once but he at least was humanoid, and more like a fighter than a... um... swallower.

I really couldn't believe my eyes when watching the 2 eclipse episodes. And after the ending I was like WHAT THE FUCK?! - and 5 minutes later I was downloading (and ordering the older volumes in german) and reading the manga, which is even more awesome than the anime, or course.

Yeah, I loved the way that the anime ended. It was just so awesome, and such a wonderful cliffhanger. Certainly better then the way a lot of adaptions try to stick in some quick "resolution" at the very end (shudders at the very thought). Frankly, I wish more adaptions would follow this example.

By the way, Aetherfukz, you might want to fix this.

the anime really, really served as one big appetizer for the anime.

Aetherfukz wrote:the anime really, really served as one big appetizer for the manga.

Fix what?

At least the anime knew when to stop...

The Prince wrote:

Libaax wrote:You can only say the anime if you have seen it first. Then its magical and perfect. If you see only an anime you cant rate it too highly.


IMO the anime is the worst anime version i have seen a good manga.

They changed things,it looked horrible worse than 70s anime i have seen.

The best looking and hardcore manga it cant compete with it.

Im glad though there isnt a new anime. These days they censor DN, Berserk would butchered totaly with its demons,ugly things that happen.

You're insane.

Whether you liked the animation or not, it was certainly on par with anything else at the time. You said they changed things, yet IMO captured the essence of the Golden Age perfectly. And in regards to what was changed, putting characters in like the Skull Night or Puck would have been pointless considering their signifigance and role in the Berserk storyline would not be realized until after the anime ended. Also the score of the anime was brilliant, and really complemented the scenes to which it played, especially the haunting music that went along with what played out during the eclipse. Emotionally it really drew me in.

So what animes have you considered to be good (or at least better) adaptations of a corresponding Manga of a similar genre?

It doesnt matter to me how short it was. Its pointless to make an anime without Puck. He is the one that changes the coldhearted Guts when they meet. His nakedness could have been changed with fairy clothes.

It didnt help that Guts looked too young, not nearly as dangerous as the manga. IMO no matter how short an anime is you have to show the strenghts of the manga to make people interested. I saw the anime first thought it was bad and forgot about it way before i saw the manga.....

A perfect example is in the same genre Claymore sure its new but they didnt change anything from the manga at all until the anime ended with 26 eps.

Libaax wrote:It doesnt matter to me how short it was. Its pointless to make an anime without Puck. He is the one that changes the coldhearted Guts when they meet.

No. Just no. Puck as comic relief? Fine. I don't find him particularly funny myself, but I can see where he might serve that function for other readers. Puck as the viewpoint character, an intermediary between the audience and the story? Sure, in the first couple volumes at least. But Puck has absolutely no effect on Guts' character arc. He just doesn't. Guts' journey from damaged child to angry loner to a part of the Hawks' "family" to betrayed avenger to a member (and arguably the head) of his new "family" would be essentially identical with or without Puck.

hbi2k wrote:

Libaax wrote:It doesnt matter to me how short it was. Its pointless to make an anime without Puck. He is the one that changes the coldhearted Guts when they meet.

No. Just no. Puck as comic relief? Fine. I don't find him particularly funny myself, but I can see where he might serve that function for other readers. Puck as the viewpoint character, an intermediary between the audience and the story? Sure, in the first couple volumes at least. But Puck has absolutely no effect on Guts' character arc. He just doesn't. Guts' journey from damaged child to angry loner to a part of the Hawks' "family" to betrayed avenger to a member (and arguably the head) of his new "family" would be essentially identical with or without Puck.

Well, arguably Guts would have died without Puck (and thus been in no position to be any kind of character) but other than that I'm in agreement. Many things influenced Guts development as a person, but I don't think Puck had much, if any, impact.

A perfect example is in the same genre Claymore sure its new but they didnt change anything from the manga at all until the anime ended with 26 eps.

Ugh. The ending absolutely destroyed any redeeming characteristics that anime had. It's a perfect example of what I meant when I said that a lot of animes would be better off ending on a cliffhanger (as Berserk did) than trying to patch together some kind of cheap ending.

Istvan wrote:Well, arguably Guts would have died without Puck (and thus been in no position to be any kind of character) but other than that I'm in agreement. Many things influenced Guts development as a person, but I don't think Puck had much, if any, impact.

Don't get me wrong, Puck has plenty of PLOT relevance, between his handy-dandy healing abilities (although let's face it, it's not as though the writers of action manga tend to have any particular problem having their protagonists heal insanely quickly without bothering with an explanation-- Guts tended to bounce back from injuries that should have realistically been at least temporarily incapacitating if not permanently crippling long before he met Puck) and the fact that he was the one who originally gave Guts the idea to set out for Elfhelm (although that idea could have come from Evarella or the Skull Knight just as easily). It's his CHARACTER relevance that I'm questioning.

Yeah no way had Puck significant relevance for Guts' character development. That honor belongs to Caska and Griffith, and to a lesser extent Judeau (yay!). Maybe even Gambino a little, and his new party of Comrades.

Puck did have a significant effect on the characterization of Guts in the first three volumes of the manga.

Okay, I have a few problems with the discussion thus far:

#1: Guts looks way older in the anime than he does in the manga, at certain parts. I just read book 7 and trust me, Guts is intended to look young and silly, when not fighting, for comic relief. Guts is both the comic relief and main character, but in this point in time it could still be argued that Griffith was the protagonist. But 25 volumes later we know better . Anyways, in the manga Guts looks very young and silly whenever he's think-talking to himself, especially when him and Caska fall from the cliff and he finds out that she is on her period. Guts' understanding in the anime is very adult but still as touching at Guts juvenile understanding in the manga. I guess when Guts was 15 and met Griffith he looked younger in the anime, but that's probably because they wanted a differentiation other than height and clothes.

#2: Puck is many things, but a leader of plot is not one of them. He is the 'good' link to the magic world of Berserk before Shierke came around. Puck is also to Guts as Jiminy Cricket is to Pinochio. Yeah, that whole magic powder thing too. Which reminds me, Judeau did give that to Guts after he got if from Puck years before. He also helps Rickert to because he also falls in with that travelling group. Basically puck is the string that ties people together. He would not have fit in the anime because it was his compassion that made Guts have the 10 volume flashback I think hbi2k said it best with the flashbacking comments in the abridged series.

The rest are more of my own comments, like Judeau is more important in the anime than the manga, at least with the amounts of frames he's in. Silat could have been in the anime, but only as a random guy who attacked the band of the hawk. Though, I'm glad they left out Wyle, I always thought that when he came in too early when compared to the Eclipse. I always felt having just Zodd and that snake dude at the start, with the whole en media res style, was enough to make the whole demon thing scary, but not completely part of Guts' reality yet.

In any case, the anime is now 11 years old, I'm kind of curious what would a second season be? How would all of these character that were not there, like Puck, the Skull Knight, and Silat?

What are you guys talking about ? Didnt you read the volumes before the flasbacks ?


Who was it that connected with the cold,angry Guts after all the horrible things of his past ?

It was Puck who nagged him so much to care about people and not only the monsters he was killing.

The Guts saves people in vol 20 + its not cause he met Caska and co years ago as teen but cause he changed when Puck started hangin after him.

The Guts before that was horrible, let people die before his eyes.

Heck cause its of Griffith and what happened to Caska and his friends that he became a hateful,coldblooded killer. Its clear difference of the Guts of the new volume. He didnt change for better because he friends died years before he met Puck.

Libaax wrote:What are you guys talking about ? Didnt you read the volumes before the flasbacks ?


Who was it that connected with the cold,angry Guts after all the horrible things of his past ?

It was Puck who nagged him so much to care about people and not only the monsters he was killing.

The Guts saves people in vol 20 + its not cause he met Caska and co years ago as teen but cause he changed when Puck started hangin after him.

The Guts before that was horrible, let people die before his eyes.

Heck cause its of Griffith and what happened to Caska and his friends that he became a hateful,coldblooded killer. Its clear difference of the Guts of the new volume. He didnt change for better because he friends died years before he met Puck.

I agree with you in that Puck, during Gut's deepest darkest days as the Blackswordsmen (princeably during Berserk's 1st three volumes) Puck served as the voice in Guts head constantly trying to perserve whatever remnants of humanity left lingering in Guts's twisted soul. But though he may have helped bring these remnants to light on occasion, its the circumstances surronding these moments that shape Guts' character.

So I can't agree entirely with your premise.....as you simply don't give Guts enough credit.

A lot of his evolution back to sanity came via self-discovery from interactions with those on his travels, feeling remorse for the Slug Counts daughter and "befriending" that town girl during the Lost Children Arc. His biggest change in confronting his demons came when he confronted Godo on his deathbed, when he returned from his Blackswordsmen hiatus to find Caska gone. Their confrontation in the attic is seminol in regards to Guts coming to some degree of resolution to the events of the eclipse, selfishness of leaving Caska behind, and opening his soul up to Godo regarding the burden of pain, fear, sadness, guilt, anger, hate that it had been engulfed by. All at once ceasing to be the apathetic characterization of Guts Blackswordsmen persona hellbent on vengeance, to a more noble (superhero-esque) character as we saw in the Retribution Arc and etc........