berserk dumbest moments

[Ghengis John]

It's worth noting on the flexibility of the metal hand that Goetz Von Berlicken's prosthetic was sophistocated enough to grasp a sword in battle or a pen for writing letters. So long as he's not making "okay" signs with his fingers or playing the guitar I'm willing to belive it can open and grap at least. I'm also willing to suppose that like real prosthetics the control is actually related to straps running across the shoulders and back. I'm not certain but I think we've seen these on guts. I hope so at least.

As for my "stupidest moment". The unveiling of the berserker armor. Whoever said "he's not even human anymore" has really hit the nail on the head. I know from an action viewpoint this sets the stage for fantastic fight sequences and the armor looks quite bad-ass. Unfortunately when he's FLYING through multiple whale monsters like a sword-bullet and the foes fall like toppling dominos as he drills through them all in a single leap I find myself thinking that gut's story has somehow lost something.

[psi29a]

Some background on what Ghengis John was talking about...

(1480-1562) Götz von Berlichingen, a German knight, was the leader of a band of mercenary soldiers and had a reputation as a Robin Hood figure. In 1504, his right arm was struck by an enemy cannon fire, and a prosthetic iron arm was developed to replace it. Guts' iron arm in his original character concept is very similar to Götz's iron arm kept in the Nürnberg Museum.

Miura stated in an interview that he created Guts independently and that he did not find out about the Götz until after several volumes of the manga had been published.

[Nosferatu Hamlet]

Unfortunately when he's FLYING through multiple whale monsters like a sword-bullet and the foes fall like toppling dominos as he drills through them all in a single leap I find myself thinking that gut's story has somehow lost something.

Exactly my point

[Sandman]

WOW I cant believe what you guys are saying, Guts's story hasnt lost anything. He is still the reason I read this bi monthly peice of sugar frosted crack. Plus there is so much that his story has to offer, like love life with Casca and his scar from Slan. Also the berserk armor just got interesting with the fusion of Silke's OD and the ability to be in berserk mode without being berserk. Also there is the fusion of fire attack that shit is going to be awesome, I cant wait to see what else they can come up with. I also want to see some back story on his mom, or a time laps to see how he looks old... so dont give me that shit Guts rules that is all you need to know.

[Nosferatu Hamlet]

...I only said the dumbest moment so far was that fight nothing else

[Sandman]

Unfortunately when he's FLYING through multiple whale monsters like a sword-bullet and the foes fall like toppling dominos as he drills through them all in a single leap I find myself thinking that gut's story has somehow lost something.

Exactly my point

and by bolding that statement I would think the oppisite... get your story straight and stop back pedeling, you have just lost what respect I had for you noob

[Vancore]

Even though he isn't quite human anymore (Never has ever since the brand) I would say giving him the Berserk Armor has made him even less human (Since it bring out a bit of the 'Mad Dog' Demon inside him). And even though I can't remember the quote exactly, "Beware of fighting with monsters lest you become one" or something, I would have to say thats kind of what Beserk is about. Him flying through 3 Demon whales would back up that statement well as he's becoming more of a monster himself to fight things that could easily kill humans so i don't think Berserk's lost anything its just continueing to follow the quote well. If he didn't have compainions or friends he might have become a full monster a long time ago.

[Istvan]

Might have? He was well on his way, from what we could see until he started traveling with Caska again. The incredible trouble he had when he started traveling with Caska sort of underlines this. One of the things about the Berserk armor that I find interesting is that it forces him to develop a greater control over the "monster" part of himself, since otherwise controlling the armor is impossible. I don't feel that the story has lost anything from the Berserk armor, if anything its gained yet another dimension.

[raoh]

when he's FLYING through multiple whale monsters like a sword-bullet and the foes fall like toppling dominos as he drills through them all in a single leap I find myself thinking that gut's story has somehow lost something.

i think guts is that lethal in the armour because before he even met flora his rage was so strong it was making him a lot more powerful, so put that in a cursed ancient item that allows the wearer to unleash their inner rage and you will get something like that.

secondo-there's one thing that bothers me. when guts left,griffith did something dumb wich ultimatly led him to become a godhand.if you remember before he sacrificed everybody he said that guts was the one that obscured is dream and later we learn that everything is gouverned by fate.so what bothers me is, is guts the catalyst for all that hapenned? if he never met griffith would griffith have sacraficed everybody. griffith's mistake that led him to the godhand, was it is fate or guts's.

ive always wondered about this, about how strong the stream of fate is in berserk. i thought maybe guts was the catalyst for everything that happened because he is the one that pushed griffith to being so close to achieving his dream, and that without him he would have used the egg before that point.

[Ayanami]

Berserk is not perfect, there are quite a few dumb moments. This entire new arc is actually pretty damn dumb to me. Get to fucking elf helm already. Casca needs to change, she has become so insignificant in the story and I hope that elf helm or what ever the hell it is called makes some sort of change in her character. I feel the story will never reach the greatness of the Golden Age arc or Retribution arc. The entire cast of characters that Gutts is with now does not hold a candle to the original Band of the Hawk.

[Ghengis John]

I cant wait to see what else they can come up with. I also want to see some back story on his mom, or a time laps to see how he looks old... so dont give me that shit Guts rules that is all you need to know.

Yeah guts does rule. That's exactly my problem. Guts is great, I'm a big fan of GUTS. Do you ever hear anyone say "Oh man Eddie Brock is a bad-ass!"? No. But there are fans of Venom. Guts is not Earthworm Jim, Guts doesn't need a secret super suit to make him super strong. Guts beats his inhuman opponents by being human. His anger is as much a part of that as his tenacity. That's why I pull behind guts, he suffers, even with his giant weapon he's outmatched but his ferocious iron will carries him through and he isn't such a total bastard that he doesn't feel empathy, even for an apostle like moth-girl, and values his humanity enough that he doesn't want to lose it. He's a slug-fest hero who wins by determination and the occasional bit of quick-thinking. Imagine how the rocky movies would be if mick just handed rocky a gun and said "You're gonna make 'em swiss cheese kid!". That's what I feel happened. After he lost the goto armor and got the new suit I found myself thinking, "So that's as far as a man can go is it?". And that's what's lost in my opinion. I'm just waiting on my hands for the drama when caska gets her wits back and hoping it's as good as I've seen berserk can be. Maybe I'll be consoled when guts gets that astral body wound healed up and stops acting like he's got radiation poisoning. As it is he's just getting sicker and sicker for a wound I didn't like in the first place. I don't mind the new cast, didn't mind them at all when they were being added, debated with a freind of mine tht they were actually good for the story. But that armor...

And yeah I get all the becoming a monster, externalisation of gut's inner struggle, controlling the beast within stuff. Still doesn't mean I can't be dissapointed for reasons all my own. You take from the story what you will and I'll take what I will. It's art right? That means it's subjective.

Oh and thanks for that psi, I should have posted it myself but I didn't think.

[J2 Cool]

I think the blow to Griffith just left him alone, beaten, and lost. Eventually he picks himself up, and refuses to accept failure. In fact, his attempt to prove himself and his will came in quickly pursuing Charlotte imo. It was already in the works that he would seduce her, but through failure in one aspect regarding his dream, he decided to accomplish another task of his. And through this collapse of discipline, his dream was at the point of him being captured, completely lost. I think at that moment he was struck with a feeling of panic at a fleeting dream and betrayal. Knowing full well, to accomplish something so grand he can not afford mistake.

Funny thing is, as hasteful, agressive, and undisciplined as his approach to Charlotte was - he still succeeded. He won her heart entirely that night. So his goal was accomplished, but it was dangerous and came accompanied with consequences that he decided to chance in one night, simply for its reward and to aid his own insecurity of his will. Really needing to prove his self quickly to ease his fear of failure.

Anyway, no, I didn't have a problem with that. Battle probably wasn't even on his thoughts. Possibly even avoiding the idea of battle, and suggesting to his doubtful side victory doesn't always come by the blade. That it can also come by love and influence. That a loss in a swordfight isn't always the only measure of success and will. Avoding the idea so much so, that he cast off its importance and the requisite of sword and battle in this world. At least temporarily.

My bigger problems would probably be in the manga following the initial arc. The attempt to make this the longest running manga leaves a lot of unessential storytelling without a exact reason to exist other than to elongate it. Can't say specifically what, but there's definitely quite a bit in there.

[Starnum]

Hm, this is actually a good thread IMO. As for the discussion on Gatts’ fake arm, I’ve yet to see it do anything that isn’t plausible for a prosthesis, even a medieval one. I’ve always considered the use of magnets even, but who knows. However, I have to agree, when Gatts uses the armor, whether its been said or not, it really does seem like he has full use of his entire body and then some. However, where some may think that this makes him lose something, I disagree. I just think it’s a natural and cool progression to the story. I love to see him go wild with the armor. I think the current arc is pretty interesting too, its great getting to see Griffith’s plans unfold. I just can’t wait to see Gatts crush them all. (If that happens at least.)

[lon3vvolf]

As for my "stupidest moment". The unveiling of the berserker armor. Whoever said "he's not even human anymore" has really hit the nail on the head. I know from an action viewpoint this sets the stage for fantastic fight sequences and the armor looks quite bad-ass. Unfortunately when he's FLYING through multiple whale monsters like a sword-bullet and the foes fall like toppling dominos as he drills through them all in a single leap I find myself thinking that gut's story has somehow lost something.

Sure because berserk is supposed to be totaly realistic right? I mean, demons do take shape from entrails. Fairies do exist, right? Giant flying minotaurs disguise themselves as not-quite-so-giant ogers? And its possible for a guy with superhuman strength, wearing a full suit of armor to be struck by lightning, and live. That happens everyday, so c'mon man, its stupid yeah, but it very realistic so it shouldn't matter. Besides he looks awesome in it on PS2

[Ghengis John]

Whoever said my problem with it was realism? If you read my next post down you'll understand where my problem with it stems from.

[MrFelony]

Hey, remember when Caska fell off a cliff during the Golden Age because she was having her period? Yeah, that was pretty dumb... and totally sexist on Miura's part.

[KolaJ]

So in your opinion, what are the dumbest moments in Berserk, and how would you do it better?

ok, as for the 'better' part of this topic. For moments mentioned already:
1)Scene after the seduction: Maybe make his face a bit happier when he left. And the missing sword bit could not have been included, story would not suffer from it at all.

2)The sex problems of Caska (or Miura): I would not make this a boss battle, I'd make her rush in at the enemy because she is angry at herself and wants to prove she can still be as good when she has her period, and then get cornered with lots of spearman. Guts rushes to help, after killing some gets trapped too. They get pushed of that cliff. Now we really need them to fall for the 100 man slayer title

3)Berserk armor transformation/battle with the emperor: I too miss the human Guts but I also like the new Guts. I would try to keep the both. The most important thing that makes him so inhuman are his jumps. Too high, you can't jump over your head. What Miura does is he gives him that Wolf image. I would make him more of the Bear, the same as his human form but: No jumps, fast and strong attacks, lots of armor and HP As I see it now the Berserk armor is not for driving the body to its limits but more like Bio-Booster Armor Guyver...

[Istvan]

2)The sex problems of Caska (or Miura): I would not make this a boss battle, I'd make her rush in at the enemy because she is angry at herself and wants to prove she can still be as good when she has her period, and then get cornered with lots of spearman. Guts rushes to help, after killing some gets trapped too. They get pushed of that cliff. Now we really need them to fall for the 100 man slayer title

Wait, so you would think it better that a mob of ordinary spearmen could force both Guts (whose perfectly healthy) and Caska off a cliff? And that before this Caska should act like a complete idiot and raw recruit, carelessly allowing herself to be surrounded? I can't see this being better, and to me it seems a lot worse. Better that Caska is slightly off her game, and can't stand up to an, admitadly quite strong, opponent and that the exertion causes her to temporarily faint (which can happen, fighting very hard in the sun, wearing plate armor, even without adding her expierencing her period at the time) and Guts has to rescue her. That at least doesn't make both (or either of them) look incredibly stupid/pathetic.

[Khelegond]

I don't consider the "Miura is a sexy bastard" scene (hehe) to be dumb. At all. Caska was in her period, and she acted like a perfect commander. Never left her horse, and was just pointing her soldiers to do her bidding. Her lack of luck was that guy (Adon? Something like that) cutting through the lines to get to her, since killing an enemy commander is always such a good tactic.

For his bad luck, Gatts uses a horse, and pretty much rides around the battlefield, so he simply was in the right place the right time.

And I agree with Istvan, the scene you described scapes reality, or in the very least is totally out of character for them, making it much dumbest

Oh, and please - that's not an attack on you - is just what I think about that specific scene.

[Ghengis John]

I actually find the inclusion of Caskas period to be one of the most non-sexist things I've seen in any anime or manga. You have a lot of stuff out there where the girls wear short skirts, have huge bosoms and are generally two dimensional characters that exist as a simple sex object, for other characters or the viewer to ogle. Who cares about messy complications like periods right? Your typical fantasy woman is hot all the time and flawless and uncomplicated in all things with the exception of character traits like romanticism, temperamentality or ditziness that are supposed to make her a woman. They're like dolls. But real women do in fact get periods and they're a difficulty of life and biology they must deal with. The admission of that doesn't seem like a weakness to me, infact considering her male counterparts don't have to struggle with this and she's second in command of the hawks makes her look all the better in my opinion. For that matter to me, it just makes caska all the more believable as a character and adds a dimension of humanity to her that your average heroine is sorely lacking.

[Khelegond]

And if you remember, when she's with Gatts (right after he re-joins the Hawks) you see her body... she's fit, have muscles, scars, and such. Not even movies show a warrior-lady like that

[KolaJ]

ok, now that I look at it myself the #2 did turn out bad, it is hard to beat Miura. I was just trying to change the physical stress of the period to mental. hmm, maybe IF I made them elite spearmen That guy (name Adon?) can't be better than 20 elite spearmen, can he? He could even be their commander, and the one going after the enemy commander would be Caska. To kill enemy commander is a good tactics, she just got a bit careless from the stress. I think you can make this look good if drawn correctly.

[Istvan]

Charging alone into a situation she can't handle? Still seems very out of character, and stupid. One of the reasons Caska is second in command is that she is not an idiot who makes stupid mistakes like that. She's a fairly brilliant commander in her own right, and wouldn't make such a glaringly obvious mistake. In the case of Adon, he cut through to her, not vice versa, which is a good move on his part, but doesn't really make Caska look foolish, since it wasn't caused by a judgement lapse on her part.

[Khelegond]

And now, if you remember, she was always attacking Gatts for doing that strategy He was the one charging and moving around - specially in the chapter / episode with the camp that had powder...

[Istvan]

And now, if you remember, she was always attacking Gatts for doing that strategy He was the one charging and moving around - specially in the chapter / episode with the camp that had powder...

Although she later apologized for that particular incident, since she recognized that his action was correct, and quite possibly saved Griffith's life. As a general rule, however, you're right she did condemn such actions on his part, which would make it seem hypocritical (at best) for her to engage in them.