Future of EG's Berserk Scanlations

Post by **LordMune** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:10 pm

EnglishJim wrote:
LordMune wrote:Knight of Skeleton, Gorem (as in golem), Judo, Schierke et cetera are all official romanizations.

Initially, I had hoped they would pay a little attention to the translations the fans have already done.

What, and ignore Miura's own romanizations? Because that's what they are.

Post by **EnglishJim** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:20 pm

LordMune wrote:
EnglishJim wrote:
LordMune wrote:Knight of Skeleton, Gorem (as in golem), Judo, Schierke et cetera are all official romanizations.

Initially, I had hoped they would pay a little attention to the translations the fans have already done.
What, and ignore Miura's own romanizations? Because that's what they are.

Well, I didn't know that... I thought they were directly from the DH translator...

Regardless, I'll still say Judeau, Skull Knight, etc.

EDIT: Are the PS2 game's romanizations Miura's too (Gurunberd instead of Grunbeld)?

Post by **MonkWren** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:25 pm

EnglishJim wrote:EDIT: Are the PS2 game's romanizations Miura's too (Gurunberd instead of Grunbeld)?

Most likely. To be honest, I think it might have been better if Miura had consulted a native English speaker before releasing official romanizations - his quite frequently make little sense.

Anywho, thanks for the heads up! All the more incentive for me to buy the DH releases (once I have money to do so).

Post by **Istvan** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:01 am

I don't know much about which is actually more accurate, but I will say that (to me, anyway) Skull Knight just sounds better then Knight of Skeleton. Frankly, even Skeleten Knight would be fine, but Knight of Skeleten just sounds a bit odd.

Post by **Eldo** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:37 am

Knight of Skeleton is a more literal translation, which is why that's probably used. Nothing wrong with translating it literally though.

As for some romanizations, keep in mind that Japanese people can't really make proper pronounciations for an English name, for example, in some cases with an 'r'. I guess they just don't really roll their tongues in the language, like the French do. But to maintain authenicity, the translator may have used the romanizations that is in Japanese instead of the actual correct word in English.

Post by **Wandering_Mystic** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:05 am

LOL, I guess this means that in later volumes to come, we'll all be seeing the fight between Guts and "Ogle", since that's how it was spelled in the game XD

Skull Knight does sound better than Knight of Skeleton imo, but whatever, the die has been cast. At least now we can get a laugh as well as chills when we see his bad-assedness

Post by **inkthinker** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:27 am

Eldo wrote:Knight of Skeleton is a more literal translation, which is why that's probably used. Nothing wrong with translating it literally though.

As for some romanizations, keep in mind that Japanese people can't really make proper pronounciations for an English name, for example, in some cases with an 'r'. I guess they just don't really roll their tongues in the language, like the French do. But to maintain authenicity, the translator may have used the romanizations that is in Japanese instead of the actual correct word in English.

Hence the reason we get things like a show named "Eureka 7" about a girl named "Eureka" that they pronouce "El-wrecka".

Or trying to ret-con "Zoro" into "Zolo", obstensibly to avoid any confusion with "Zorro", even if that's the connection that the artist intended.

Post by **Buzkashi** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:08 am

Dude... Mystic's translations > Buz / Miura/ Femto Triumvirate's translations.

Post by **EnglishJim** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:58 am

Buzkashi wrote:Dude... Mystic's translations > Buz / Miura/ Femto Triumvirate's translations.

It's why I'll be keeping EG's scans long after I've bought the real thing.

Post by **Gattsblackfalcon** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:22 pm

I like it more Skull Knight but well I just have to get used to name him Knight of Skeleton .

Post by **evr** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:53 pm

Well I just don't think knight of skeleton sounds good. Even if a table is made of wood I wouldn't call it a table of wood. I'd call it a wood table, just like I'd call him a skeleton knight. But that's just me..

Post by **Istvan** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:54 am

I think it has to do with the difference between how english and japanese show possession. Knight of Skeleton is probably the more accurate translation, but sounds a bit akward because it's not how english would usually say it.

Post by **evr** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:33 am

Then again a translation shouldn't be done too accurately, since it'll sound strange. It should be modified to work properly in the language translated to without changing the content of the text.

Post by **Eldo** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:10 pm

evr wrote:Then again a translation shouldn't be done too accurately, since it'll sound strange. It should be modified to work properly in the language translated to without changing the content of the text.

...and then you'll have the purists, bashing the translation because it's not too literal.

That's what happened to Hellsing. Even subtle changes can irritate the purists. The context is essentially the same, and the elements aren't exactly important or vital to the storyline, but bashing all the same. There has been criticism that translators take liberties with the translation in order to help flow better in English, but neglect to have the translation literal.

You can't please everyone, but it's still safe to translate literally. You can't exactly go wrong there.

Post by **psi29a** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:29 pm

From Nomimono's sig:

Steven Seymour; Jimmy Carter´s State Department interpreter wrote:Translations are like women. When they are pretty, chances are they won´t be very faithful.

Post by **Nomimono** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:43 pm

Lol, exactly. You beat me to the punch

IMO the most important thing reading anything is the experience - the feel, and the mood. So, to make a good translation, you sometimes have to deviate from the text quite a bit, to make something that rings true in English. It's always a hard decision, but especially when translating from Japanese, you're often left with no choice. Some sentence structures just don't work if you carry them over from Japanese to English.

I agree with Eldo, it's safer to do a literal translation, but you sometimes end up doing the original work injustice.

My current standpoint on the literal/liberal translation issue is: adhere as closely as you can to the spirit of the original. Which means you have to second-guess the author's intentions. That can be tricky, especially in serialized works like manga where you see only a small part of the original at a time.

My opinion on the Skeleton Knight: Go with Skull Knight/ Skeleton Knight! Knight of Skeleton sounds so weird. (I don't have the original here right now so I can't say which I'd rather choose)

Post by **Istvan** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:00 am

My current standpoint on the literal/liberal translation issue is: adhere as closely as you can to the spirit of the original. Which means you have to second-guess the author's intentions. That can be tricky, especially in serialized works like manga where you see only a small part of the original at a time.

The problem with that, of course, is you are then reading what the translator thinks, rather then what the author thinks. This can (potentially) cause a lot of problems with subtle shades of meaning the author may have worked in. As a general rule, I think being as accurate as possible within the constraints of the language is generally a good thing. In the case of Skeleten Knight vs. Knight of Skeleten, however, I'd have gone with the first just because it's not really an less accurate and it flows a lot better in English. But hey, I'm not the translator, and they've done a good enough job overall (especially compared to some series) that I'm not going to complain too much.

Post by **LordMune** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:14 am

Istvan wrote:
My current standpoint on the literal/liberal translation issue is: adhere as closely as you can to the spirit of the original. Which means you have to second-guess the author's intentions. That can be tricky, especially in serialized works like manga where you see only a small part of the original at a time.
The problem with that, of course, is you are then reading what the translator thinks, rather then what the author thinks. This can (potentially) cause a lot of problems with subtle shades of meaning the author may have worked in.

oh god this argument is retarded

There are more than a dozen ways of expressing the word "I" in Japanese.

The English language itself strips the translation of so much "subtle nuance" that complaining about a "translator's interpretation" is like...

I'm having trouble coming up with a fitting parallel, so I'll just leave it at that.

EDIT: A word-for-word translation of most manga from the Japanese language to English is bound to have some of the driest, most boring prose you've ever had the misfortune to read.

Post by **ryusenka** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:57 am

Buying the manga's good enough for me. As long as the art's all the same it's cool. DH is the best when at liscensing manga, anything's better then viz and DC comics.

Post by **evr** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:11 am

ryusenka wrote:Buying the manga's good enough for me. As long as the art's all the same it's cool. DH is the best when at liscensing manga, anything's better then viz and DC comics.

Any company that doesn't modify the original artwork is fine by me. I've bought some volumes of a few series that ended up being flipped and had their sfx reworked (poorly) to english, wich totally killed the mood.

But what's wrong with Viz? I have eight different series released by Viz and overall they're pretty good, imo. Maybe I've missed something..?

Post by **ryusenka** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:26 pm

evr wrote: But what's wrong with Viz? I have eight different series released by Viz and overall they're pretty good, imo. Maybe I've missed something..?

Their translation is often too kiddy for me and the manga in their shonen line is usually censored.

They suck zebra balls basically.

Post by **Istvan** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:55 am

The censoring is what annoys me the most.

Post by **Malvado** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:07 pm

ryusenka wrote:Buying the manga's good enough for me. As long as the art's all the same it's cool. DH is the best when at liscensing manga, anything's better then viz and DC comics.

I'm still upset about the first volume of DH's Berserk for fuck them. I never had a problem with Tokyo Pop though.

Post by **Libaax** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:47 pm

Have you guys read DH's Blade of Immortal?

They translate like Manji is standing in the streets of NY talking to gangbangers.

Thats the worst translation i have read from big company, cause you are sure the mangaka didnt mean to make his characters sound like that.

The best example is LWAC, they use soo many japanese words and use such english that fit with how samurai and co talked.

Viz, i dont have a problem with, they do a great job with Vagabond.

Also about Muira romantizisations who cares if it is engrish or what not, the original creators own stuff is always better.

Post by **Malvado** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:33 pm

Libaax wrote:Have you guys read DH's Blade of Immortal?

They translate like Manji is standing in the streets of NY talking to gangbangers.

He is a low life thug for hire you know....

Libaax wrote:Also about Muira romantizisations who cares if it is engrish or what not, the original creators own stuff is always better.

That is the fanboy talking! Don't turn into a Otaku on me damnit! Don't you dare.