Ch 264

[Starnum]

It's totally possible that he won't be made an apostle, but I kind of think he will. An apostle can also be born when they're on the brink of death, and this guy could kick the bucket at any time. Also, the "egg apostle" didn't have anyone that he cared for either, but he still managed to become an apostle somehow. I'm not real certain, but I wouldn't be surprised to see this guy made an apostle. He would still be able to perform his papal duties as such.

[kasgarinn]

I just cant stand when they treat him like a hero, hope atleast someone will think its strange that monsters,demons work for him.

Yeah, I think we'll be seeing alot more of griffith the hero, although you can debate whether gutts is or isn't moving according to some pre-destined path, you can definitely put griffith right on fates' path to glory, there's even a legend which says something to that fact, but I'm not sure exactly where it is stated in the manga.. it's only vaguely mentioned here and there.. need to re-read the thing.

K.

[BasouKazuma]

I just cant stand when they treat him like a hero, hope atleast someone will think its strange that monsters,demons work for him.

Yeah, I think we'll be seeing alot more of griffith the hero, although you can debate whether gutts is or isn't moving according to some pre-destined path, you can definitely put griffith right on fates' path to glory, there's even a legend which says something to that fact, but I'm not sure exactly where it is stated in the manga.. it's only vaguely mentioned here and there.. need to re-read the thing.

K.

Yea, the thing about that is, the whole prophecy of the hawk of light may not even be about Griffith. Guts could be the one that the prophecy speaks of but everyone has misinterpreted who the hawk of light is. Griffith is probably using that legend to his advantage, which was easy since he dresses like a white hawk, he's a pretty boy which makes him look innocent ... there's a lot of other things that i just don't want to type out.

Guts keeps a low profile, dresses in black and visually looks kinda evil ... so obviously no one would ever dream that he was the one. In fact, many think that he is the harbinger of destuction or something.

[TheDrizzit]

I just REALLY hope that I will be around to see what happens when the truth reveals itself. ^_^

[Loeviz]

Well I kinda got the feeling in this chapter that Guts is the one spoken off in the propechy.

[Libaax]

If i remember it right people started dreaming about the white hawk just after Griffith became a God Hand so its pretty clear he made the prophecy so he can become the hero easier when he went back to bieng the white hawk.

Or even worse he knew about the white hawk prophecy when he was young so he started to dress like him to use it later to his advantage.




I cant wait to see when people see how wrong they were about Griffith.

[Loeviz]

I bet its gonna be a hack and slash fest. They crown him and then WHAM! He starts the whole carnage by cutting off the popes head and re paint the castle

But I dont really think he knew about the prophecy from when he was little. Unless he was told about it when he recieved the behelit

[Libaax]

If he didnt know about it then he made it, i mean how hard can it be to make people dream about him with his powers.

[MrFelony]

well first off, i though everyone had already come to the conlcusion that griffith is the black hawk in disguise and vice versa for guts...now we see that griffith isnt just following fate's path, but he is carving it as well. as for griffith looking the part for the prophecy, i would say that was just Idea's workings. yes easy way out but most plausable . and starnum, the egg apostle sacrificed either himself or his home, i forget which but i think it was his home, possibly including the people in the area .

[Libaax]

He must change fate to his advantage or else what was the point of becoming a god ??

[Necromancer]

He is no God, only Gods Hand.

I don't know if that old guy will get apostolized but of course he will support Griffith.

[|||||||]

Thanks for another release

man I was really shocked when I first mistook sonia for rickelt...puh good thing it was my mistake.

As for the pope, isn't it the pope who crowns emperors? Since the emperor in europe is the highest monarch...

[Lord Rae]

Depends on how the goverment in structured... We know how midland was structured to an extent. But I don't think we've ever seen how the rest of the continent/world works its royalty out.

Oh and another excellent chapter. Thanks so much for ignoring the people giving you a hard time. Thanks from all true fans.

[Libaax]

He is no God, only Gods Hand.

I don't know if that old guy will get apostolized but of course he will support Griffith.

God hand is still a god not THE god but still.



About the pope he will never become an apostle so we can stop talking about ,he is much more important as the pope.

If he needed an apostle he can choose whoever he wants.

[Istvan]

Also, the "egg apostle" didn't have anyone that he cared for either, but he still managed to become an apostle somehow. I'm not real certain, but I wouldn't be surprised to see this guy made an apostle. He would still be able to perform his papal duties as such.

Even if we except that this is the case (and I think Mr.Felony adequately addressed it) the pope would still need a dream to be destroyed. The eggs dream was (more or less) to live in peace underground, and that was destroyed by his home being filled with dead people. What dream does the pope have? Besides, I still can't see any possible reason for him to become an apostle. He's more useful to Griffith as he is.

[Concealed_Rage]

He is no God, only Gods Hand. ;)

I don't know if that old guy will get apostolized but of course he will support Griffith.

God hand is still a god not THE god but still.

I don't think of the "Gods hand" as gods, more like the ones chosen to rule by the god/The Idea, it is the one that controls the fate of midland or so it says. The gods hand are just that, the hands of god/idea doing what it decided as fate

[TheDrizzit]

Well, if he's God's Hand then he is God cuz God may need his hand! ^_^

[Khelegond]

I don't know if Griffith can turn someone in an apostle. Isn't their destiny to become one? The behelit might not be "offerable", meaning that you can't give a behelit to someone. You must be destined (sp?) to use it, and she will be used by you when the times come.

Don't think the Pope has a behelit

[Xenith]

call me crazy here, but aren't you all just assuming that Griffith knows about the prophecy? i may have missed something along the way but maybe he doesn't even know about it.

it is reasonably clear to most (or at the least we could call it assumed knowledge) that Griffith is the "bad-guy" in the story, or at least from our point of view he would seem so. therefore we have come to the conclusion that Griffith isn't the 'white-hawk' from the prophecy and that Guts is. i have a problem with the theory therefore, that Griffith 'made' the prophecy, after all, why would he want people to know that they were going to be saved by Guts, furthermore how would he know that anyway, assuming once again, that Guts doesn't follow fates path?
so either it is a true prophecy that Griffith may or may not know about, which foretells of Guts coming, or it's not really a prophecy, merely the opinion that Griffith wants people to see

however, there is another prophecy also in circulation, berserk - v14c04p084, after stumbling upon the 'fifth sign of the apocalypse' Azan states that "it is proof of a fifth use". to which Farnese replies "The use that brings the dark hawk. The blind king of the white sheep serves as shepard to the villainy of the black sheep." Scherkie also says something similar later on.

after Guts tore that moth chick a new one, he sees a vision of Casca being burnt at the stake. his ‘son’ tells him “A pillar of fire stands (where) blind sheep gather (at) sacred ground”. it later turned out that the sacred ground was the tower of retribution (i think that’s what they called it) and the blind sheep were religious nuts. if then, we use the same reckoning, Griffith being the ‘dark hawk’ and the pope being the blind king. It should stand to reason that the pope has an important role to play, but if he is indeed the ‘blind king’ of the prophecy, then it would seem as though he shall have no real knowledge of what is going on, and as such it is hard to believe that he is going to become an apostle. i believe that the pope’s role (being a case of art imitating life) is merely to allow Griffith the right to label his struggle as a holy crusade by giving it the blessing of the church, but if he really is the blind king of the prophecy, then perhaps he will have a much more important role in this story than any of us could yet conceive.

there you go, two things to think about
(sorry about the length )
hehe, this is why i don’t post

[Loeviz]

Good reasoning there.
Had forgotten all about the other prophecy to be honest.
And I can see the pope being the "blind king".
But maybe Griffith gives a behelit as a gift when he meets the pope.
Cause Griffith was given his as a gift to begin with so it does seem you can give them away.
Or maybe it was just possible in his case since he was destined to be a god hand

[MrFelony]

yea, that behillit was destined to be in griffiths hands, not the old lady's. as in you can give someone a behelit, but if they aren't destined to use it then it will just leave their possession. as for the prophecy, griffith is meant to be seen and portrays himself as the white hawk. he isnt trying to convince or tell people that guts is supposed to be the white hawk . in my opinion its a prophecy, and griffith is trying to either go against it, or believes he is the white hawk...for some reason lol. and yes the pope is just a figure to help add legitimacy to griffiths reign and campaign i believe. and i dont see why you dont post more . though a lot of this stuff i see as being obvious .

i have a question. if everyone reads berserk as much as they claim, how come a lot of people dont see things that are almost obvious to others (not necessarilly refering to anything mentioned here).

[BasouKazuma]

i have a question. if everyone reads berserk as much as they claim, how come a lot of people dont see things that are almost obvious to others (not necessarilly refering to anything mentioned here).

I doubt people even read it as much as you think they do, for starters.

And I bet people just have trouble putting the pieces together by themselves, to figure these sort of things out.

In short, people are dumb!

[kasgarinn]

Xenith, good post mate.

I started going through the volumes again regarding this fate business, but I'm only at volume 2.. I so love taking my time with this

In my opinion, I think that it's mostly the emotional involvement we have with gutts which is clouding the issue a tiny bit regarding his 'fate', and any prophecies of glory and someone coming to save the land, we of course want that to be gutts and not griffith, because griffith sacrificed his army to change his fate from a paraplegic (no tongue, no use of his hands, barely can stand, his dream of becoming the ruler of the land completely and utterly shattered, and nothing but pity from the eyes of his former comrades) to what he really wanted, to rule the land he was born in fairly and successfully.

I believe that any prophecy regarding the fate of the 'hawk' is truly about griffith, and how he'll save midland, and rule there as the greatest ruler for a a long time (I'm still going through the volumes, but I believe that there was a prophecy about how long the 'hawk' would rule).

The behelit is really the only completely solid hint that there is something in the world of berserk which can be called 'fate', a force which moves people or things to its' will (or the will of the user of the behelit).

Also not just anyone is invited to become one of the god-hand, so griffiths' fate will be decided by him, and he wants to rule Midland, and this was somewhat prophecised by the god-hand when they accepted him as one of their own.

That's what's so interesting about griffith, when he started with the hawks, he was willing to sacrifice his body for the good of his dream and for his troops to get the equipment and money they needed, he was always an exemplary ruler of his troops, even though he used nefarious ways to keep them going (even pitting them against huge odds just to gain rank in the midland army). His succession of becoming the ruler of midland kinda reflects that, he's willing to do the corrupt/risky deeds to ultimately do the good deeds for the greater good, thus I don't believe that when he finally becomes a ruler that all hell breaks loose.

Gutts just wants to get caska some help, this latest chapter shows that he has calmed down about griffith, and is resolute to at least make sure she has the second chance she needs to live a normal life.

However, I find one thing a bit ironic, at the beginning, in volume one where puk grieves for the priest and his daughter, telling gutts that it's not his fault, gutts laughs at puk, and says that the blood of the innocents doesn't matter, that they accepted the danger of traveling with him, even though he warned them, so their deaths is not his concern (even though he rather could have saved them by not traveling with them).

...wasn't that a similar view griffith took on his troops when they died?

I'm still going through the volumes.. can't really quote pages or form a theory until I've read it through again.

K.

[Libaax]

call me crazy here, but aren't you all just assuming that Griffith knows about the prophecy? i may have missed something along the way but maybe he doesn't even know about it.

it is reasonably clear to most (or at the least we could call it assumed knowledge) that Griffith is the "bad-guy" in the story, or at least from our point of view he would seem so. therefore we have come to the conclusion that Griffith isn't the 'white-hawk' from the prophecy and that Guts is. i have a problem with the theory therefore, that Griffith 'made' the prophecy, after all, why would he want people to know that they were going to be saved by Guts, furthermore how would he know that anyway, assuming once again, that Guts doesn't follow fates path?
so either it is a true prophecy that Griffith may or may not know about, which foretells of Guts coming, or it's not really a prophecy, merely the opinion that Griffith wants people to see



however, there is another prophecy also in circulation, berserk - v14c04p084, after stumbling upon the 'fifth sign of the apocalypse' Azan states that "it is proof of a fifth use". to which Farnese replies "The use that brings the dark hawk. The blind king of the white sheep serves as shepard to the villainy of the black sheep." Scherkie also says something similar later on.

after Guts tore that moth chick a new one, he sees a vision of Casca being burnt at the stake. his ‘son’ tells him “A pillar of fire stands (where) blind sheep gather (at) sacred ground”. it later turned out that the sacred ground was the tower of retribution (i think that’s what they called it) and the blind sheep were religious nuts. if then, we use the same reckoning, Griffith being the ‘dark hawk’ and the pope being the blind king. It should stand to reason that the pope has an important role to play, but if he is indeed the ‘blind king’ of the prophecy, then it would seem as though he shall have no real knowledge of what is going on, and as such it is hard to believe that he is going to become an apostle. i believe that the pope’s role (being a case of art imitating life) is merely to allow Griffith the right to label his struggle as a holy crusade by giving it the blessing of the church, but if he really is the blind king of the prophecy, then perhaps he will have a much more important role in this story than any of us could yet conceive.

there you go, two things to think about
(sorry about the length )
hehe, this is why i don’t post

If Griffith made the white hawk prophecy he might be the one after black hawk prophecy too since he knows people think Guts is an evil murderer since the apostles he kills becomes human after thier death.

I dont think the idea made the two prophecys, cause people started dreaming about the white hawk just after Griffith became the God Hand, that isnt a coincidence.

[isse-pisse-päron-pung]

You know there is actually a chance that Griffith is the white hawk that would restore peace to midland (and perhaps expand their territory and so on)

in a public view they would regard him as a good King etc etc...

But just because Guts still wants his revenge he in some way kills griffith and hence being the black hawk.

but hey hey you never know =).