Honourable Apostles

Post by **Messatsu** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:57 am

Thanks

Post by **mcummi2** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:28 pm

is it just me, or is there a LOT of people who are confused by the whole Guts/Caska/Griffith child thing. It seems like so many people missed the fact that Griffith was reborn through the fetus, the fetus of Guts and Caska corrupted by Femento's rape.

Post by **Ghostviper04** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:27 pm

So... the kid is Griffith? Then who is the Hawk? Or when the Hawk came to being, the child was released from corruption but retained a lot of powers?

I'm pretty much asking who is this kid?

Post by **Buzkashi** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:28 pm

Heres a question? If grifith is "the hawk of darkness" than who is the "hawk of light" ??

Post by **psi29a** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:06 pm

Believe it or not, but Griffith is referenced as the "Hawk of Light", confused yet? The fleshy vessel (corrupted by Fempto's rape) was used by Fempto to come back into the world as Griffith the "Hawk of Light".

Once used, the fetus was swallowed by the Egg apostle...
a volume or two later...

this mysterious kid pops out of nowhere on the beach that is very attached to Casca and is very curious of Gutts and in a very "family' oriented shot of them all... someone says that they look like a family. *hint hint*.

Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:59 am

A bit out of topic but It's a bit weird. When griffith became a member of the god hand he recieved the name 'femto'. The word fem in swedish means five or the fifth. Perhaps Mr Miura took it from there? :pP nah.. but still .

Post by **psi29a** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:42 am

Femto is also a prefix used with the metric system that stands for 0.000000000000001. A femto- is 10 to the -15th power or one quintillionth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femto

Not sure how that translates into berserk...

Good call on the Fem == Five thing.

You can use the url below to verify:
http://www.freedict.com/onldict/swe.html

Post by **dos.azn** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:12 am

Ghostviper04 wrote:So... the kid is Griffith? Then who is the Hawk? Or when the Hawk came to being, the child was released from corruption but retained a lot of powers?

I'm pretty much asking who is this kid?

pretty much, a lot of the proof is given thru volume 21 and 22.

Post by **InsaneNoodlyGuy** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:32 am

Messatsu wrote:
True these new apostles have the semblance of nobility. But thats just them trying to hold on to an old way of life, considering what they did to atain such power one canot consider. Persons who would willingly sacrife loved ones to erthernal torment, losse all nobility as a human beings. To be truly noble is the sacrife of ones self for others, not necesserely throu deeds of heroism ie: a brave knight who saves a woman from a beating or whatever. Sacrifice of ones self can be seen as the bettering of some one elses life, like Godo(not sure its spelled that way, but you know the blacksmith that died) he adopted a litle girl he found neer the ruins of her home, he saved that litle girl for no selfish reasons, not to attain anny high standing in anybodys eyes, nor any fame. He could have just left her there to either die or be forced into a life of constand survival, considering the type of world they live in. All in all, what i want to say is that nobility does not comme with either social standing or power or even apperence it comes from within the depts of the human soul, wich is something MOST apostle lack.

I don't think any of the apostles can actually be said to possess a human soul, considering how they are inherantly no longer human. That said, i don't believe an apostle is incapable of being Honorable.Theya re not, as voiced early in this thread, puppets dancing to griffiths will. The Kushan Emperor is proof of that. As to nobility, well, putting aside the obvious definition of higher class (which is an implied definition), nobility usually implies goodness, which is inherantly against pretty much any apostles nature, even if the count did manage one loving act. But as to honor, I think an apostle can have (and some have demonstrated) such traits.

Post by **Messatsu** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:41 pm

I agree fully with your comment. Indeed there is a difference with nobility and Honor.

Oh and guys when you go offtopic, you just dont fall of the boat, you fall of the face of the freaking earth!

Post by **dos.azn** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:52 pm

Post by **Buzkashi** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:53 pm

THE RETURN OF DOS!!!

Post by **dos.azn** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:13 pm

heh i got bored so instead i spent my time on my mediocre 56k dling all of the chapters out for GANTZ and Naruto

Post by **Dagda Mor** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:03 am

(Pardon the thread necromancy, but I know this forum despises the creation of new threads. . .)

Here's my question. I know there's a good chance we'll never find out, but how do you think the transformations of the Band of the Hawk's noble apostles occurred? To put it another way, whom did they sacrifice? After all, many of them don't seem like the type to sacrifice someone close to them. Of course, th incident normally involves some sort of emotional duress. . .

Post by **Starnum** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:00 am

That’s a good question, and hopefully we find out sometime. I can see what you mean about Locus, Irvin, and Grunbeld. They don’t seem the type to sacrifice people, but surely they must have. However, I wouldn’t put anything past Rakshas, he seems like a scandalous bastard, heh.

Post by **MrFelony** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:12 am

what if...they sacrificed themselves!!1

would be an interesting side story but i doubt we'll find out...any time soon atleast

Post by **Skullkracker** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:38 am

that's dumb
any sacrafice is eaten up
maybe they regretted what they had done after the sacrafice, and now they think they can do something good for the world with their ill gotten powers by siding with "teh white hawk"

but it's unlikely...

Post by **Eldo** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:53 am

Skullkracker wrote:that's dumb
any sacrafice is eaten up

Nope, the egg apostle sacrificed himself, if I recall. I don't think he was able to sacrifice the piles of dead bodies he was buried in.

Yeah, it does seem weird that these apostles, however honourable they may be, would choose to sacrifice someone. Perhaps they sacrificed their lords or masters, having being betrayed by them. Guess we'll never know.

Post by **Skullkracker** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:58 pm

wasn't the whole area around the tower branded?

Post by **42ndEndOfTheWorld** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:23 pm

Messatsu wrote:Well as i stated before, if a man aquires power thru the sacrifice of human life, then anny noblity he aquires would be marred by this evil act.
Also considering that to become an apostle you need to sacrfice some one dear to you, forget loyal or trusting, im talking about some one you love. To become an apostle is to confirm that you are an inferior human being, the proverbial Nietzschian beast.

Sorry, but what's wrong with being Nietzsche's disciple? I am not one myself, but I kind of like the concept.

Post by **Tempest** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:48 pm

Eldo wrote: Yeah, it does seem weird that these apostles, however honourable they may be, would choose to sacrifice someone. Perhaps they sacrificed their lords or masters, having being betrayed by them. Guess we'll never know.

Well another thing to consider is the time when they become apostles. The God Hand doesn't just come down when your at the peak of your life and say "Hey, your doing good now, would you like to do better?" They come when your ambition is broken, when you are down and out, and willing to give anything to get back on top. Just look at the way Griffith, the Count and the Elf chick were made into Apostles. It all happened at times when a loved one betrayed them or when they thought a loved one had betrayed them. Their dreams were crushed in front of their eyes and then they are suddenly given the power to get it all back. The problem we have as readers is we aren't privy to the circumstances of every Apostle's transformation (Not that we'd really need to for most of the cannon fodder Apostles). In cases like Locus or Grunbeld, they may have sacrificed comrades in amrs in order to acheive something that as a group they never could, the power of an Apostle.

Post by **Istvan** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:58 pm

Nope, the egg apostle sacrificed himself, if I recall. I don't think he was able to sacrifice the piles of dead bodies he was buried in.

I'm pretty sure that the egg apostle sacrificed "the world". And he changed his body into something that could give birth to the "new world", hence all of the wierd stuff that's been happening since Griffith's resurection.

Post by **Eldo** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:05 pm

A previous poster (Shisho) suggested that the egg apostle sacrificed himself, hence the brand on his tongue. I'm not quite sure what he sacrificed, since it wasn't properly clarified.

Post by **Phoenix** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:48 am

Well, he certainly lost his body. Perhaps his consciousness was transferred to the Beherit?

Anyway, these apostles retain characteristics of their former lives, yes, but honor? This honor is there for the sole purpose of satisfying their egos. They don't fight strong opponents because they dislike killing weaker people, they fight them because they like using their own powers to their full extent. They obviously have no problems killing anything Griffith orders them too. It's a shadow of their former honor, if they ever had it.

Post by **Starnum** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:52 am

Yeah, the Behelit apostle did have a brand on his tongue, so he must have sacrificed himself. I mean, he didn’t have anyone else to sacrifice originally, as he was all alone. He also died later on, as he “sacrificed” himself so that Griffith could be reborn. He did also sacrifice all the people at Albion, during the pseudo-eclipse, but not the whole world. This also lead to Griffith being “reborn”, as it were.