Possible constitutational crisis?

Post by **psi29a** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:39 am

Has it come down to this?

Participants in the high-stakes test of wills, who spoke with The Miami Herald on the condition of anonymity, said they believed the standoff could ultimately have led to a constitutional crisis - and a confrontation between dueling lawmen.

"There were two sets of law enforcement officers facing off, waiting for the other to blink," said one official with knowledge of Thursday morning's activities. In jest, one official said local police discussed "whether we had enough officers to hold off the National Guard."

http://tinyurl.com/4v4pn

This case has been in the news for years, it is only now that it will cause history to be made. Think of it, TWO branches of our law enforcement are about to start shooting at each other. Are we that polarized now? Should the State Legislative branch have the ability to overturn a State Judicial decision? Talk about fucking up what the USA has been building on since 1776.

Post by **DarkenRahlX** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:58 am

If it's something ridiculous, yeah I believe it should be overruled. But this isn't. I can't believe law enforcement agents went against the rule of a judge. Something like this could spread like wildfire among other states. Something like this should only happen when the masses (in my opinion 90% of the American people) believe what you are doing is just. It also sickens me that the group would want someone to continue living their life as a vegetable...I would not even wish that upon my most hated enemy.

Post by **Gaiseric** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:06 am

Thats crazy. She doesnt have the ability to live, I say let her die.

Post by **raziel** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:22 pm

IMHO, death is something you can't decide, no matter how bad the condition may seem. Even if the victim says, "kill me", they don't have any right.

Just my two cents.

Post by **psi29a** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:03 pm

raziel: well, unfortunately that is another issues all together than the one I was trying to go at.

But, on that issue, is my .02 cents.

<on soap box>
I firmly believe in the right to die. For Catholics, that is suicide and thus a sin. But not all of us are Catholics and I certainly don't want any group telling me what is I can and can't do with myself. If someone is pro-Life, that's great. I don't want any of it. It takes away from choice, and choice is inherit in freedom. I've already stated to my loved ones that if something happens and I become a vegetable (like a tomato, southpark reference), and I'm unable to take care of myself. Then pull the plug. I have no right to tell people what to do, nor do I have a right to say "Yes, this person should die" but damn-it, I do have a right to say "Kill me." and if I'm unable to communicate that (by eye twitch, Morse Code, or farts) then there is a problem. Pull the plug.

Unless of course, there is a miracle of science that is able to regenerate brain tissue and I can then become Forrest Gump or more.

</on soap box>

Post by **dos.azn** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:06 pm

it was the right decision to let her die. only her husband had the sense to know of her wants, and she wouldn't have wanted to live artificially. heck who da hell would?

Post by **Femto** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:15 pm

raziel wrote:IMHO, death is something you can't decide, no matter how bad the condition may seem. Even if the victim says, "kill me", they don't have any right.

Just my two cents.

You mean to tell me that if I were in such a situation, then other people's opinion's will come before my own?

Bullshit.

Post by **psi29a** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:55 am

If you stated you wanted to be alive by any and all actions, then yes, you have stated your right to live and no one can take that from you. However, if that statement was never made, then it is left up to those who are close to you (not the President or some senator who has never meet you, or some smuck who says he is a Doctor of diagnostic medicine and yet has never meet you before saying that you are capable of communication.

You can't make that decision after the fact, because you are incapable of making them. Your body functions, but you are a vegetable. You have catheters stuck up your pee hole, and other tubes in your butt hole, more tubes up your nostrils to feed you as you can't do shit.

To me, that is awful. What sort of human being treats another human being like that? The onus is definitely on the parents. I would (if I could, but I would be a vegetable, so I would be incapable of doing so) loathe them for that. For the price of one bullet, I would have saved my family and friends medical bills and anguish. They dragged this thing on for 15 years. *shakes head* The husband did the right thing, and if anything the parents should bear the blame for leaving her like that.

Post by **dos.azn** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:33 pm

what pissed me off the most where celebrities talking about how they can't pull the plug, making others join their beliefs too. i think patricia heaton was one of them. like they know what hard decisions are

Post by **Kêthêrîc** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:58 pm

Jeb Bush is a reject.

Post by **raziel** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:33 pm

hm, i dont think i should say anything further mainly since I'm influenced by religious beliefs.

But just to add something, I think you don't have any more right than the next person to decide whether you live or die. Whatever happens, happens. The default function when going through life is to live so in my mindset, one shouldn't lose hope.

I've thought about it for a while since the last post and think that maybe it was ok to do it, but I think with something as mysterious and unknown as death, one should not so easily say, "pull the plug".

I know this is a crappy post since this really stream of conscious-esque, but I couldnt resist facing the opposition in this thread.

Post by **Starnum** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:51 pm

Hm, interesting. Well, I think that just letting someone in that state die naturally isn’t a bad thing. I know if I were brain-dead, I wouldn’t want to go on as a lifeless vessel. I wouldn’t want to be a burden on my friends and family either. Not only would their be bills, but it would also leave them in a suspended state of depression everytime they thought of me. It would be easier to just slip away, and let them mourn. Then eventually everything would be okay, and I would live on in their hearts and stuff. Issues like this are such a big deal to people, but I don’t think it should lead to violence *sigh*.

Post by **MrFelony** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:00 pm

all i know is that if i end up in a vegetative state that for the LOVE OF GOD dont put me on national television. I couldn't agree more with South Park on that point. in my opinion, my beliefs about abortion and suicide are the same. I am morally against them, but i dont believe that it is my place to forcefully, or even mentally (peer pressure, coercement, et cetera), stop someone from having an abortion or commiting suicide. that is the difference between a lot of conservatives and some liberals. liberals, it seems, have a greater tendency to realize that the constitution is about protecting the rights of others even if you do not agree with them. If it was up to me, the only possible situation that i would allow abortion for would be around the lines of rape, but its not my right to choose for other people. well looks like i stayed true to my chicago roots (the windy city...windy because politicians like to blow a lot of hot air or something like that...)

But ya psi, situations like that are a tad nerve racking. jsut imagine Bush trying to become the dictator of America heh.

Post by **psi29a** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:38 pm

Good thing about humans is that if you piss us off enough, we will take action. There IS a reason for the second amendment.