How can I convince my friend to watch/read Berserk?

[DrPepperPro]

I hate one piece and naruto and bleach.

[lon3vvolf]

I hate one piece and naruto and bleach.

QFT. Quoted for truth. I wholeheartedly agree.

But to add some advice for the topic... get the remastered Berserk DVDs and talk about all the work and the fixed dubs.

[The Herald]

I hate one piece and naruto and bleach.

YES! Finally, those are so dumb! I hate when people say that Naruto is supposed to be the new DBZ, because it just ain't. It has all of the fighting and randomness that you could want from DBZ, but there are way too many main characters and not enough relationships, and things move too slowly. It takes forever for anyone to grow up! And at least in Dragonball you see Goku grow up, there aren't a million flashbacks. There are flashbacks in DBZ, but I don't know, they aren't so dumb. At least even the Naruto flashbacks are better than the ones in Gundam Seed Destiny, I swear only 30% of that show was new content. But Berserk has almost no flashbacks and that's why it's boss.

Talking about Bleach, I had a buddy who would refuse to watch Berserk because he said that Gut's sword was unrealistically big. But the dumb thing was that he confesses that Bleach is his absolute favorite anime. EVERYBODY IN BLEACH HAS HUGE ASS SWORDS! His argument is that Bleach is unrealistic and allows for huge swords. He won't even listen to the explanation that Guts has a big sword because he grew up learning with swords that were that size compared to his own size and weight. But in Bleach the swords are like ghosts or something so you need no muscle mass to hold em - take Ichigo for example.

[Shizuka]

wow, add much. anybody too stupid or unwilling to even try watching the first episode of anything would be too stupid to get berserk anyway. i say screw em, if they want what berserk has to off they'll find it on their own

[Istvan]

Agreed. Anyone who would criticize the logic of something without even reading/watching to find out what the logic of that story is, isn't really worth debating on it.

[The Herald]

Would it be a stupid question to ask what the logic behind Bleach is then?

[Istvan]

Would it be a stupid question to ask what the logic behind Bleach is then?

As I see it, the "logic" of a story is how the author defines the rules to work in that world. In Bleach, the author has made it so the logic of the world dictates that a shinigami's strength is a function of their level of spiritual power, and so powerful shinigami can wield absurdly huge swords with great ease.

In Berserk, we have a logic that dictates someone can wield huge swords because of years and years of muscle training, and then later (when the sword reaches absurd proportions) because he has been permenently placed part way into the astral realm, which has slightly altered his body.

It's all a question of what the rules are, as the author defines them. Now, when things happen in the story that go against the rules as the author has defined them, then you have a problem, usually refered to as a "plot hole."

[The Herald]

Then technically Bleach works, but I still don't like how most of the story takes place in the afterworld, where the characters involved are already dead. I mean, what happens when they get killed in the afterlife, do they get killed again, or go to another level of the afterlife? I guess that works in Japanese mythos, but for someone like me who was raised as a Christian that doesn't make sense. I like it better how in dragonball they only go to the afterlife for a little while and explore it, not really trying to delve into it, just accepting that it is there. Berserk is a totally different matter all together, but I enjoy how it is trying to probe the meaning of life, and therefore death.

[Starnum]

Ichigo and the others weren't dead when they went to the spirit world in Bleach, so I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Now the normal shinigami, they all died long ago and forgot their past lives when they became shinigami. However, I imagine it works the same way in Bleach as it does in DBZ, as well as many other things. Typically, if you die in the spirit world, you cease to exist.

So really I think your understanding of Bleach is a little flawed, perhaps because you haven't watched all of the series and aren't interested in it. In any case, the main characters are all still alive, and the shinigami can still die permanently, so there's still a very real threat of being destroyed. You know, in case you were thinking the seriousness of their battles was compromised because they couldn't die or something. No, there is still a very real threat of complete eradication, and if you're unfortunate enough to die at the hands of one particularly devious shinigami named Mayuri Kurotsuchi, then your perception could be altered so that you experience the painful moment of your death in slow-motion for what would seem like 100 years!

[The Herald]

As usual I agree with your point Starnum, but Bleach has been ruined for me. Damn fanboys.

[Rolos]

Bleach was never REALLY good to begin with. It was fun, yeah, but that was it.
Now, it blatantly sucks. Here is just one reason why:

Has anyone noticed that at one point it's stated that 10 vasto lordes could take out all of soul society and that, a few chapters later, some captains of said institution manage to easily take out a relatively high number of members of the espada, vasto lordes who had been turned into arrancar, and were therefore many times stronger than normal vasto lordes?
Its pretty stupid, really.

Anyway, in regards to the original purpose of this thread, I think that people shouldn't try to force Berserk into others. It has to be done slowly.
Just use berserk as a reference every once in a while, lend it to him/her and never, ever, ask him/her about it. Eventually everyone feels the urge to know what the hell are their friends talking about.


PD: There is always the good ol' poisoning tactic.
Just feed your friend rotten food (well hidden within fresh food and sufficiently spiced so they don't notice) and hack their Internet. There is nothing like that to get someone so start watching something you lent him/her.

[Istvan]

Has anyone noticed that at one point it's stated that 10 vasto lordes could take out all of soul society and that, a few chapters later, some captains of said institution manage to easily take out a relatively high number of members of the espada, vasto lordes who had been turned into arrancar, and were therefore many times stronger than normal vasto lordes?
Its pretty stupid, really.

Um... the espada in question weren't vastro lords, they were ajuchas (the rank between gillian and vastro lord) so this point sort of makes it seem the problem is that you haven't been reading closely enough. Though I'll agree that the series is fun, but nothing compared to the awesomeness that is Berserk.

As to the method of getting someone to read Berserk, I like your first idea, but could you expand a bit on the second one? I'm not really sure how it would result in them reading Berserk, unless maybe you're using the food and internet as blackmail (i.e. start reading it and I'll stop hacking your internet and feeding you bad food)? If so that seems...somewhat counterproductive. Fun though!

[DrPepperPro]

I think it's like this:
Give them Berserk to watch/read, then poison their food and cut their internet. the next day, they'll be sick and have no internet or tv (you'll be cutting that too), then they might as well read Berserk.

[Rolos]

Its exactly as DrPepperpro says.
Most of my friends don't really watch tv (why would they? A computer can give everything a tv does, without the annoying publicity every 2 seconds) so, at least in my personal experience, thats not absolutely necessary.



Wait, that makes it sound like I actually poisoned my friends. They got that food poisoning on their own! I swear!
How was I supposed to know that the restaurant I invited them to was serving rotten food? It was all deep-fried, there was no way for me to know!
Why didn't I get poisoned? Because I am a cheap bastard and, since I was paying for more than one person, refused to eat anything at all.



Wait, that actually makes sense! Man, I'm good at this.


Avoiding suspicion skills....+1

[Fradener]

Now the bastard is saying that it shares a very tenuous connection to Gurren Lagann (Which he despised because he has no taste) after, or so he claims, a friend told him "..I made sure to never watch it" because he'd "been told to see it by a lot of ttgl fans." At this point I just left the conversation because there was no graceful way to end it.

And before that it was he's not in the mood for "grim/dark."


Oh and if it's not too much to ask could everyone remove any spoilery Bleach talk? Even if you hate the show, that's no reason to ruin it for others, right?

[The Herald]

Well, I've only seen a few episodes that YTV aired, so there's no way that I can ruin it. All I can say is that I really dislike how the romance takes forever to go through because nothing ever comes of it. That one of the reasons I like DBZ so much, people get together, have babies, then go on with life. Instead of waiting for the first kiss constantly. Blargh. Berserk's the same way, really, with the whole romance thing.

[hbi2k]

'Course, Toriyama tends to just skip over the whole "romance" aspect of it altogether by setting any and all actual courtships, weddings, etc. during time skips. And then having both members of his quote-unquote "pairings" either be completely oblivious to or else seemingly hate each other by the time the action resumes.

Toriyama's fun in that he seems very much aware of his own limitations as a writer, so at least he doesn't make us suffer through a bunch of poorly written love drivel, but that's not the same thing as being GOOD at writing romance.

[The Herald]

I agree, Toriyama can't write romance, but I do appreciate that he actually has 'normal' relationships with kids and everything. Miura is a much better writer than Toriyama, romance, action, and otherwise.

[Istvan]

Miura is a much better writer than Toriyama

That's sort of like saying there's a lot more water in the ocean than in a lake. I mean it's true, but...

[The Herald]

Yeah, but so far Dragonball has only been around about five years longer than berserk but is much more popular. Though, it is much more accessible because of its air time and lack of gore.

[dialdfordesi]

Popularity isn't the same thing as being good.

[Istvan]

Popularity isn't the same thing as being good.

True. For example, "pet rocks" were fairly popular a while back here in America.

[lon3vvolf]

Popularity isn't the same thing as being good.

True. For example, "pet rocks" were fairly popular a while back here in America.

So I got into an argument with a friends brother. I kinda mentioned somewhere how trashy Bleach and Naruto are compared to Berserk and he got all offended. The only argument he could come up with is that Naruto is so popular therefore its really great.

"Yeah, High School Musical was liked by many people too, but so was Dark Knight." <-- pwnt

[Starnum]

Just because Berserk is better, that doesn't mean that Bleach and Naruto aren't good too, and they're certainly not trashy, even compared to Berserk. He probably got "offended" because you were "insulting" a couple of his favorite anime/manga. I think it's a little ridiculous to single out other shows just because they're not exactly the same as what you like. Have you ever even read Bleach or Naruto, they're actually pretty good. I just think it's silly when people ridicule shows like Naruto and act like they're any better for watching more "mature" or graphic stuff like Berserk. Uh, they're both manga and anime. I'm not saying you were doing that perse, but it does sound like you were hating on those shows a little bit, so I think it's justifiable to get a little offended when people act all superior over stuff which is essentially the same thing. I mean, if you want to hate on bad anime, I'm sure we can find some much better candidates for you. Don't get me wrong, I could care less, but I could argue for both of those shows if I wanted to and provide better reasons for why they're good shows besides their popularity. However, I don't care enough to do so. Besides, I do like Berserk a lot more, but I like those series too. However, it's all about how you come off. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but think of it like this. Yeah, Berserk is better, but if you go around rubbing it in people's faces about how much better it is then the likes of Naruto and Bleach, then how do you think that comes off? I don't know about you, but I can imagine the friends I have that would care enough about the topic, may call me a biased ass. Which comic franchise is better, Marvel or DC? Who cares, they're all comics. It's like arguing over which is better Star Wars or Star Trek. In the end we're still a bunch of nerds, especially if we're actually arguing over the stuff, lol. Just because you think one is better than another, doesn't mean everyone else does. Anyway, I'm just saying don't knock it until you've tried it, and even then you probably still run the risk of sounding like a pompous ass *shrugs*. If that's what you're going for though, then more power to you I guess. Though if you have tried it and still want to knock it, then I still think you could do a lot worse, but that's just my opinion.

[lon3vvolf]

I have watched both, and still say they are trashy
Bleach not as much.
I wasn't forcing it down anyones throat or anything but he got all touchy when I said I didn't like either.
He said something along the lines of "OMG WTF are you stupid? How could you not like Naruto? I thought you liked anime???"