Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Mmkay. That's one explanation I suppose.
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Great chapter, thanks EG. I have to say Miura's drawing's are just the awesomest. It's a small wonder he takes so long. Probably each drawing has tens of thousands of lines. But he's right with his way. Ultimately he'll go down in history and all the bleaches of the world will probably be forgotten... .
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Hey now, Bleach happens to be the, arguably, most artistically competent shounen manga serialized right now.Brainpiercing wrote:Great chapter, thanks EG. I have to say Miura's drawing's are just the awesomest. It's a small wonder he takes so long. Probably each drawing has tens of thousands of lines. But he's right with his way. Ultimately he'll go down in history and all the bleaches of the world will probably be forgotten... .
Not that that fact means anything when it's compared to Berserk.
"I love a buz" - LordMune, 2012
Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
I think in a way, Sonia knows she is a tool, but chooses to be blinded to it. It seems that she already knows she has no chance against the princess, but just clings on to whatever illusion she has of Griffith. This is a young, lost girl with no direction in life, and her void is filled by Griffith. Even if Griffith is evil incarnate, she will fight for him regardless of the evils he's done. Griffith has that effect on people. I think that is part of the reason why he was a bit taken by how Guts wanted to leave his group, because nobody has except in death. Griffith has this charismatic quality that compels people to do his bidding, no questions asked. Some of the people don't even have a reason to fight for him.Istvan wrote:But consider things like when Sonia was interfering with Griffith's time together with Charlotte, and when Mule castigated her for it, thought something along the lines of "I also haven't seen Griffith in a long time." I don't think she truly accepts that Griffith only sees her as a tool and that she'll never be more than that to him. Caska did. Hence the fact that Griffith's revelation to Charlotte about how he saw the Hawks didn't surprise/disturb Caska at all. She already knew it. Sonia still thinks of both herself and Griffith as being special (note her bird analogy), and feels that she should be together with Griffith.hbi2k wrote:I dunno, I think Sonia has a lot fewer illusions about being with Griffith than Caska ever did. She seems pretty content to just worship him from afar, whereas even when Caska was doing her damnedest to pretend to herself and everyone else that she just wanted to be "his sword," it was pretty obvious to the reader that she'd never be satisfied with that role.War Machine wrote:Looking at Sonia as the new Caska, it'll take a while for her to realize she doesn't stand a chance to be with Griffith, and until she gets that, she'll stay by his side. But using her power to sway the people seems to much for me as Griffith still needs to keep his noble image intact for her to follow him. Griffith is the one who's gotta do all the explaining about the monsters, I doubt the people would even accept someone else speaking for him.
With this fight, if the demon army wins, they're accept them, in my opinion. I think the armies are stirred by what they've seen here, but I doubt there would be any hesitation to accept them once he wins. Or maybe they will be swayed by Sonia's words/thoughts. Perhaps that's her role, her 'fate' if you will.
I don't think half the toilet seats in the world are as clean as I should like; and only half of those are half as clean as they deserve. - tsubaimomo, July 26, 2010 3:00 am
Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
I remember Griffith's reaction when he first asked Gatts to join him at the top of a hill, to which Gatts promptly replied 'No,' and Griffith followed with, "No?"Eldo wrote:I think that is part of the reason why he was a bit taken by how Guts wanted to leave his group
My first interpretation of it when I first read Berserk was that it was simply an affirmation of Gatt's decision. While rereading Berserk and again after reading your post reminded me of my reinterpretation of Griffith's response; his questionable "No?" was probably more to himself then Gatts, maybe because he is the first to ever decline his invitation.
"Don't you get it yet?! If she's beautiful, you'll die instantly!!" Chopper
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Funny how reading his post it reminded me of the same scene you described (except that it wasn't just the "no" part, but the whole "I want you" and etc.).
The same time that was almost a retoric "no?", guess he wasn't expecting less from him. Charming =) (Gay, though.... )
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The same time that was almost a retoric "no?", guess he wasn't expecting less from him. Charming =) (Gay, though.... )
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Forget the first to decline the invitation, Guts was the first (and last) person he ever even asked to join him. Everyone else just volunteered (like Caska).his questionable "No?" was probably more to himself then Gatts, maybe because he is the first to ever decline his invitation.
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Being asked or not, Guts was the first to openly refuse following him, and that's what matters
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Even the almighty Grumbeld, Zodd, the Moon Night, etc.....all freely pledged themselves and their lives to Griffith.Istvan wrote:Forget the first to decline the invitation, Guts was the first (and last) person he ever even asked to join him. Everyone else just volunteered (like Caska).his questionable "No?" was probably more to himself then Gatts, maybe because he is the first to ever decline his invitation.
Let's put a smile on that face...............
Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Yeah, but probably out of allegiance and loyalty to the orders of power, not because of his charm. I think they'd serve the other God Hands too, if they ask of it.
I don't think half the toilet seats in the world are as clean as I should like; and only half of those are half as clean as they deserve. - tsubaimomo, July 26, 2010 3:00 am
Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Although in Zodd's silly twisted "I must find a worthy opponent!" brain, showing up out of nowhere, kicking his ass, and taking his horn probably counted as an implicit invitation. (-:
Berserk: The Abridged Series: Beating a dead horse with another dead horse.
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
I actually think that the fact that Guts was the only person he ever asked is more significant than the refusal as such, because it helps show how from the very beginning Griffith saw Guts as being different (and more important) then anyone else he had ever met.Lara Skadi wrote:Being asked or not, Guts was the first to openly refuse following him, and that's what matters
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Actually Griffith did extend an open invitation to Rickert to rejoin him while flying off with Zodd, after the reunion between both parties on the Hill of Swords. Of course we know Rickert (or at least fairly certain) did not run off to go join Griffith's new army, thus Rickert could be considered another to have declined Griffith's invite. Along with being the only other person (besides the SK) to understand and emphasize with Gut's struggle having learned the truth about what had happened in the eclipse.Istvan wrote:Forget the first to decline the invitation, Guts was the first (and last) person he ever even asked to join him. Everyone else just volunteered (like Caska).his questionable "No?" was probably more to himself then Gatts, maybe because he is the first to ever decline his invitation.
Let's put a smile on that face...............
Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Oh, nice find. My own obsessive compulsive nature demands that I commend you for going out of your way to prove such an inane point, congratulations.
No, seriously though, that reminds me of something I'd do, so good work.
No, seriously though, that reminds me of something I'd do, so good work.
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
You talk as if he was your pupil O.oStarnum wrote:Oh, nice find. My own obsessive compulsive nature demands that I commend you for going out of your way to prove such an inane point, congratulations.
No, seriously though, that reminds me of something I'd do, so good work.
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Chapter 301 is on December 12th. Also nice avatar Starnumb.
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
That is a nice find, I agree with Starnum. Of course, I could be really nitpicky, and point out that he didn't so much invite Rickert in that scene as say that he wouldn't turn down Rickert's aplication, but that might be a little too picky, even for me. Oh well. At the very least Guts is the only person he actually tried to recruit, but I guess I was wrong about the invitation thing.The Prince wrote: Actually Griffith did extend an open invitation to Rickert to rejoin him while flying off with Zodd, after the reunion between both parties on the Hill of Swords. Of course we know Rickert (or at least fairly certain) did not run off to go join Griffith's new army, thus Rickert could be considered another to have declined Griffith's invite. Along with being the only other person (besides the SK) to understand and emphasize with Gut's struggle having learned the truth about what had happened in the eclipse.
Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Lara Skadi wrote:You talk as if he was your pupil O.o
Heh, well that wasn't my intent, but a guy can dream.
Heh, thanks. Also, that's kind of funny what you did with my name there, and not entirely inappropriate I guess.DrPepperPro wrote:Chapter 301 is on December 12th. Also nice avatar Starnumb.
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Oh that was just a typo, but I left it anyways. If I left all my typos it would be impossible to read. Only my brother and 1 or 2 close friends can make any sense of it.
Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
I think for things like this you should be picky.Istvan wrote:That is a nice find, I agree with Starnum. Of course, I could be really nitpicky, and point out that he didn't so much invite Rickert in that scene as say that he wouldn't turn down Rickert's aplication, but that might be a little too picky, even for me. Oh well. At the very least Guts is the only person he actually tried to recruit, but I guess I was wrong about the invitation thing.The Prince wrote: Actually Griffith did extend an open invitation to Rickert to rejoin him while flying off with Zodd, after the reunion between both parties on the Hill of Swords. Of course we know Rickert (or at least fairly certain) did not run off to go join Griffith's new army, thus Rickert could be considered another to have declined Griffith's invite. Along with being the only other person (besides the SK) to understand and emphasize with Gut's struggle having learned the truth about what had happened in the eclipse.
Saying "if you come to me I have no reason to refuse you" is totally different from a "I want you".
Its just like you said prior to the Prince's intervention, Guts is the only person to have ever being asked by Griffith to join him.
This is a forum, we are supposed to discuss thing here. Why accept defeat (sorry if that's not the right expression, i don't know how to call it when someone voluntarily loses an argument) when you are right just because someone goes out of their way to prove a point that's wrong?
One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings.
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Mostly because I didn't really care enough about this issue to keep debating it. I mean, my point seemed pretty obvious to me (and I thought everyone else) and when I wrote that post I wasn't really in the mood to keep the discussion going, but I left the bit about being picky in to show that in large part I didn't concede the point.This is a forum, we are supposed to discuss thing here. Why accept defeat (sorry if that's not the right expression, i don't know how to call it when someone voluntarily loses an argument) when you are right just because someone goes out of their way to prove a point that's wrong?
I'm better now, if you were wondering.
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
No one is wrong, at least until you posted, considering you're harping over what amounts to an argument over mere semantics. An argument that was never even made or contested......until your genius of a post.Rolos wrote: I think for things like this you should be picky.
Saying "if you come to me I have no reason to refuse you" is totally different from a "I want you".
This is a forum, we are supposed to discuss thing here. Why accept defeat (sorry if that's not the right expression, i don't know how to call it when someone voluntarily loses an argument) when you are right just because someone goes out of their way to prove a point that's wrong?
I just gave an example pointing out where Griffith initiated/extended an open-invitation to Rickert, one which Rickert didn't take him up on. Are you really going to argue that this was a misinterpretation of that passage? Do you even have any idea what (or why) you are trying to get people, along with yourself, all worked up about?
Let's put a smile on that face...............
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Shouldn't you say that Guts was the only one who wasn't given a choice to join the Hawks? Or rather, the only one who's choice was stripped? Add to that being the first to leave the Hawks.
"Clearly my escape had not been anticipated, or my benevolent master would not have expended such efforts to prevent me from going. And if my departure displeased him, then that was a victory, however small, for me." - Raziel
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Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
No one really had a choice.....as they were all fated to do so.War Machine wrote:Shouldn't you say that Guts was the only one who wasn't given a choice to join the Hawks? Or rather, the only one who's choice was stripped? Add to that being the first to leave the Hawks.
J/K.
Good point.
Let's put a smile on that face...............
Re: Berserk 299 - Inhuman Battleground
Thanks to these discussions we achieve a better understanding of Berserk. That's why I think we should be very thorough with them.The Prince wrote:No one is wrong, at least until you posted, considering you're harping over what amounts to an argument over mere semantics. An argument that was never even made or contested......until your genius of a post.Rolos wrote: I think for things like this you should be picky.
Saying "if you come to me I have no reason to refuse you" is totally different from a "I want you".
This is a forum, we are supposed to discuss thing here. Why accept defeat (sorry if that's not the right expression, i don't know how to call it when someone voluntarily loses an argument) when you are right just because someone goes out of their way to prove a point that's wrong?
I just gave an example pointing out where Griffith initiated/extended an open-invitation to Rickert, one which Rickert didn't take him up on. Are you really going to argue that this was a misinterpretation of that passage? Do you even have any idea what (or why) you are trying to get people, along with yourself, all worked up about?
I thought that what Itsvan was saying could be interpreted as "you are right, may be I am seeing to much into stuff that's not really that relevant". I think it is relevant, and that if he shares my opinion he should just say so.
In my opinion that doesn't count as "getting worked up", but that's just me.
One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings.
~Diogenes of Sinope
~Diogenes of Sinope