DEATH NOTE.

[Israfel74]

The dude was a hero, sacrificing eternal life to make the current one a little better

Not to be argumentative, but the way I read the manga there is no such thing as eternal life in the Death Note universe. As my townl scanlation has Ryuk saying, "There's no heaven or hell. No matter what they do in life, those who die will go to the same place. All humans are equal in death."

Narrator: "All humans are destined to die someday. The place where they go after death is "Mu" (nothingness)."

[Starnum]

Yeah, I agree. First time I read that post I thought to mention something about that, but then forgot.

[Tempz]

Wasn't there a rule or something in the anime that said, "The person who uses this note book will go to neither heaven or hell". But at the end of the series it says all humans go to nothingness as one of the "Life" rules.

So in the end there was no consequence at all for using the death note?..

From wiki:

In the eyecatches of the last chapter/episode (then, the two last eyecatches of the series), the "rules" revealed are not Death Note rules, but the rules of life itself, as it says:

* All humans will, without exception, eventually die.
* When they die the place they go to is Mu. (Nothingness)
* Once dead they can never come back.

[Starnum]

Honestly, I remember no such rule about where a human who uses the Death Note goes when they die. It just seemed to reveal at the end of the story, that humans just cease to exist when they die. *shrugs*

[spoiler]Personally, I thought the ending sucked. It was wrong that Light went out pretty much like a bitch. Also, the concept of Shinigami when there is no after-life seems pretty stupid, IMO. I don't know what the author was thinking, but the ending left me with a bad taste in my mouth. *shrugs*[/spoiler]

[Deathbringer]

Honestly, I remember no such rule about where a human who uses the Death Note goes when they die.

Ryuko tells Lights that "rule" shortly after meeting him, in the anime i think it was like the 2nd episode.

[War Machine]

Honestly, I remember no such rule about where a human who uses the Death Note goes when they die. It just seemed to reveal at the end of the story, that humans just cease to exist when they die. *shrugs*

[spoiler]Personally, I thought the ending sucked. It was wrong that Light went out pretty much like a bitch. Also, the concept of Shinigami when there is no after-life seems pretty stupid, IMO. I don't know what the author was thinking, but the ending left me with a bad taste in my mouth. *shrugs*[/spoiler]

Apparently no one liked the ending, as far as I know they changed it in the movie and they also changed it slightly in the anime. Death Note was really rushed towards the end.

[spoiler]In the manga Light dies in the warehouse, the guy who thought he was god simply refused to help him once he knew he was defeated and Riuk takes his life right there with everyone watching. In the anime he escapes the warehouse and gets a more dignified death, but not that much of an improvement from the original. And in one of the movies (cause I think there are several, I'm not sure) I heard he wins and gets what he wants or something.[/spoiler]

[Israfel74]

I actually thought the manga ending was brutal, poetic, and ironic. Of course, the final arc of the manga and anime did stretch my credulity to the breaking point. The intellectual dance became ridiculous (in a bad way). In reality a government would probably just assassinate Light or lock him up and throw away the key. IMHO L and Near were absurd in their insistence on getting the "smoking gun" and being 100% certain that Light was Kira.

[spoiler]Regardless, I think the brutality with which the manga dispatches Kira is awesome in that it doesn't compromise what I interpret to be one of the many messages of the series (playing God will destroy everything beautiful in your soul and you're still going to end up like everybody else in the end). In the anime they whip out the sympathy card and give his death some dignity, softening the blow. I personally thought that was really lame. The manga ending also had the poetry and irony of having a religion spring up around Light, mythologizing him and giving him the Godhood that he will never get to enjoy. It also posed the question (through Matsuda and his partner) of whether Kira was such a useful force that it might have been better to leave him alive. I think the author might be drawing important parallels with religion there. Is religion and God-belief such a useful fiction that extinguishing the fear of God(Kira) isn't worth the potential costs? I think the author leaves that question open but paints a very cynical picture of any person who would set themselves up as God and attempt to engineer society through fear (Light). Absolute power did corrupt absolutely (or at least destroyed every trace of humanity in him).[/spoiler]

BTW, I can never understand the people who actually seem to LIKE Light and think he's a hero. I mean, it's one thing to identify with his vision (a crime-free utopia) and something totally different to admire him and forgive (or even applaud) his Machiavellian tactics.

[Starnum]

I don't think Light is a hero. In fact, he's clearly the villian of the story. From a fictional viewpoint, I really found him interesting, and enjoyed rooting for him. In some ways I could relate to how he went about things.

[spoiler]In the manga ending (the only ending to the series I've seen), he pretty much goes out like a bitch, begging pathetically for his life. To me, THAT was lame. It seemed out of character even, but maybe not. I would have preferred to see him take his loss with a little more dignity, but I can't say I'm surprised to see it go down like that.[/spoiler]

[The Prince]

I don't think Light is a hero. In fact, he's clearly the villian of the story. From a fictional viewpoint, I really found him interesting, and enjoyed rooting for him. In some ways I could relate to how he went about things.

-Yeah....I bet you could you crazy freak.

I mean who doesn't feel like taking it upon themselves to kill everyone around you, for the sake of covering "their" (referring to Kira of course......) own delusional arse.

[spoiler]In all seriousness, I loathed Kira's character from the very beginning. The way he went out at the end was well-suited............like a little BiaTCH!

It just sucked that I had to wait for almost forty episodes to see it.[/spoiler]


-My biggest gripe about Death Note. Everything was going so well until.......


[spoiler]I thought the way L got killed was very cheap. Relying on a Death God to carry out your dirty laundry kinda cheapened the whole duel between L and Kira. Its not fair that L died due to some altruistic Death God willing for sacrifice himself for a stupid little girl, a situation completely out of L's control. The series kind of lost a little once the whole second book was introduced, that had other Death God's acting out on their own will......at least IMO.

Also, why did it take over 4 yrs for the Wammy House, to learn about L's death?

And how the hell did everyone survive after that explosion that leveled the compound where the mob was hiding out?[/spoiler]

[Starnum]

I don't think Light is a hero. In fact, he's clearly the villian of the story. From a fictional viewpoint, I really found him interesting, and enjoyed rooting for him. In some ways I could relate to how he went about things.

-Yeah....I bet you could you crazy freak.

I mean who doesn't feel like taking it upon themselves to kill everyone around you, for the sake of covering "their" (referring to Kira of course......) own delusional arse.

Yes sir, and I'd prolly start with your worthless arse. Yeah, but seriously, I was referring to the way he punished the wicked, as he saw it. Personally, at times I feel like the world is pretty shitty, because there's so many dickheads out there who only think of themselves and make it crappy for everyone else around them. I'm not saying I endorse mass murder or anything like that, but like I said, from a fictional viewpoint, I could really get behind Kira's cause. It's like when people really like Griffith, it's supporting evil acts for a greater good, in a sense. Light was the kind of villain you could really get behind, if you ask me. Though he is a villain, so not everyone is going to like him. As for those who got in his way, of course that makes them the enemy, which makes them potential targets as well. Nobody said purifying the world was easy, or without sacrifice. I don't think Kira wanted to kill his dad, but he didn't really have much choice, if he wanted to hold on to his dream.

Also, L died because he lost to Kira's ingenious plan. Not only was it a very appropriate way to die or be killed in the Death Note manga, but it was also a well-earned and resounding victory for Kira.

[The Prince]

I don't think Light is a hero. In fact, he's clearly the villian of the story. From a fictional viewpoint, I really found him interesting, and enjoyed rooting for him. In some ways I could relate to how he went about things.

-Yeah....I bet you could you crazy freak.

I mean who doesn't feel like taking it upon themselves to kill everyone around you, for the sake of covering "their" (referring to Kira of course......) own delusional arse.

Yes sir, and I'd prolly start with your worthless arse. Yeah, but seriously, I was referring to the way he punished the wicked, as he saw it. Personally, at times I feel like the world is pretty shitty, because there's so many dickheads out there who only think of themselves and make it crappy for everyone else around them. I'm not saying I endorse mass murder or anything like that, but like I said, from a fictional viewpoint, I could really get behind Kira's cause. It's like when people really like Griffith, it's supporting evil acts for a greater good, in a sense. Light was the kind of villain you could really get behind, if you ask me. Though he is a villain, so not everyone is going to like him. As for those who got in his way, of course that makes them the enemy, which makes them potential targets as well. Nobody said purifying the world was easy, or without sacrifice. I don't think Kira wanted to kill his dad, but he didn't really have much choice, if he wanted to hold on to his dream.

Also, L died because he lost to Kira's ingenious plan. Not only was it a very appropriate way to die or be killed in the Death Note manga, but it was also a well-earned and resounding victory for Kira.

Be nice!

That's the whole point. If you were Kira, people like me would be on the top of your list.....while in reality I am a very sweet and nurturing soul. I love animals, and my favorite color is green.......

Seriously, I knew what you were trying to get at. Just giving you a hard time.

-In regards to L (possibly) dying, what exactly could have L done differently to avoid being (possibly) killed?

And "Resounding"......my ass! Kira did not win because he was the better man, he won because he was lucky.

[spoiler]L didn't lose to Kira, he got screwed over due to shear circumstance. How was L supposed to foresee being written off, at the hands of some "softy" Death God willing to sacrifice him/herself(?) for the sake of some stupid girl having bargained her life-span away for a second pair of God eyes?

In fact, L had Kira by the balls, where Kira had to depend on a variety of outside sources that were extrinsic to the rules of the game set forth early on in the series till then. The whole situation seemed like a cop out resolution to their battle.

The series would have been better served if it held to form that Death God 's by nature, not just preference, could not go out of their way to assist their hosts (seen with Ryuuk). What made the battle b/w L and Kira so intriquing, was how the series went on to establish the conditions (playing field) both were playing under, while seeing all the clever ways each were able to exploit these conditions in there favor.

Yet with the whole introduction of some rogue empathic Death God deciding the fate of Kira, the established formula for the series was blown out of the water. And IMO opinion it was the formula that helped make Death Note such a clever series....at least up until this "jump the shark moment".[/spoiler]

[War Machine]

I assume that everyone here knows the story, if not, avert your eyes for I will speak the SPOILERZ.

For once, I completely agree with you, The Prince. L was cheated of his victory.

What really hurt the story was what happened after L's death, Near comes out of nowhere and is able to figure out everything L knew up until his death without any help (and without explaining how he did it). It would've made much more sense to keep L alive and use him as the antagonist instead of killing him for shock value and then making up a new character that's exactly like him to be able to finish the story with Kira loosing.

[Starnum]

Nah, you wouldn't really be at the top of my list. I don't really think that's how Light meant to be either. I'm just fucking with you too. I mean, unless you're lying and you're a horrible person...or you were to get in my way.

You guys may not agree with me on the issue of L's death, which is fine, but here's why I say that. It wasn't really luck, Kira pretty much planned all of it, though it was a chance he took, he pulled it off. He gave up his memory, but had it set up so that he would get it all back, at the critical moment. It was then that he had all the information that he needed, and he was able to dispatch L. It was no fluke or small feat, he was with L the whole time, and he still had everyone fooled. Plus, the girl with the Shinigami Eyes, he set that up too. He wasn’t going to sacrifice half of his own life-span. You can’t really say you were cheated out of a victory if your opponent just out-right out-thought you and out-planned you. Sure Kira had the advantage, because he knew things L didn’t, like that the girl had the Shinigami Eyes, or that such things were even possible, but what’s important is how Kira used that advantage to it’s full potential to achieve his victory. If I know a critical piece of information, and I know you don’t, doing everything I can to keep that information secret, while using it to my utmost advantage, well that’s just good strategy. L never had Kira by the balls, he only thought he did. Kira's plan was so awesome, he even had himself going for a while (having lost his memory). I just see it differently, when it all came to fruition, and he took out L, that was an amazing moment. It was pretty much the ultimate victory to one of the most climatic games of cat and mouse. Honestly, the manga should have just ended there, or shortly thereafter. I can agree that Near was just an L-clone who was only there to replace the character slot. Don’t get me wrong either, I have a lot of respect for L. He was definitely the #1 contender to face Kira.

Anyway, the point is, Kira's mission was to purge the world of evil. I'm not going to say he didn't loose sight of that goal from time to time, no one's perfect. Also, innocents were killed, but there's always such casualties when you're trying to revolutionize the world. Such are the wages one must sacrifice. *Shrugs* What can I say, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

[The Prince]

Anyway, the point is, Kira's mission was to purge the world of evil. I'm not going to say he didn't loose sight of that goal from time to time, no one's perfect. Also, innocents were killed, but there's always such casualties when you're trying to revolutionize the world. Such are the wages one must sacrifice. *Shrugs* What can I say, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Then in truth Kira became exactly that which he was trying to rid the world of. Kira killed hordes of innocent people, for the purpose of covering his ass. I might understand passing judgement on murderors that have not been caught or have gotten off scott free, to prevent future harm.

But what's the point of passing judgement, killing day in and day out, those already in jail carrying out their sentence or awaiting trial? Are killing innocent people along the way, in order to allow yourself to kill "bad" people justified?

Kira reminds me of a tyrant killing his citizens for the better good off society, where the "better good" is maintaining power over a subjugated populace.

[The Herald]

Ok, I've lost all respect for this anime after the action stripes during the scene when he was eating potato chips. It's just too silly that the big profound music is set to him writing. Yes his writing kills people, but the way they shoot it looks too silly.

[Tonbo]

But what's the point of passing judgement, killing day in and day out, those already in jail carrying out their sentence or awaiting trial?

It is a critique on the failures of the penal system. If prison was at all effective in deterring crime or rehabilitating criminals than there would be no need or popular support for Kira. However, as it stands, serving time is akin to a badge of honor among criminals and functions as a training ground where criminals can share tips of the trade. The recidivism rate in the US is 60%. Prison fails its founding philosophy on all points and simply serves as an astronomical public expense where we quarantine people that are poisonous to society. The irony is that it is so expensive to keep people in for the length we deem just in our laws, we have to let people out even though they are still poison. Not only does it not deter or rehabilitate, it also fails to provide justice.

Is killing innocent people along the way, in order to allow yourself to kill "bad" people justified?

The reason the death penalty has been banned in many states is this same philosophy... we cannot ever with 100% certainty be sure that the person accused committed the crime, so there may be mistakes in meting out capital punishment. One innocent person killed would be unacceptable. Texas, however, is more than willing to take that risk and carries out the largest number of executions. It is a cultural choice.
I won't comment on killing people you know to be innocent because they're troublesome, that's Russian justice.


Although Kira was the quintessential anti-hero, crime went way down and victims felt justice had been served.
Until there is a clockwork orange method of altering criminal behavior patterns, jail will always fail its purpose.

[Starnum]

Yeah, everyone I know who's went to prison for a significant amount of time, has only come back worse. That aside, Kira was trying to make a paradise on Earth. The key word here is trying, ultimately, he lost his way. *shrugs*

[The Herald]

To me it seems like Deathnote is a cry for help from a society weary from consumerism and an infinite amount of second chances. I guess the whole world is like that nowadays. Deathnote brings to light all of the things wrong with the world through Kira. We know it is wrong to kill, but we say it's alright under certain circumstances. Deathnote seems to be a way of describing that want and almost need to kill, but in the end the killer is destroying himself spiritually.

[fujinsan]

This is probably the only anime that I watch now, I used to watch anime a long time ago. I like how they made misa die in the end that made me happy