Newbie Berserk Discussion Thread

[Istvan]

Not necessarily. One of the most effective ways to counter an archer is to try to get close to them, and turn it into a melee battle, where the archer is at the disadvantage. Alternatively, they may yet add a long range expert to the party, but it isn't truly essential that they do so.

[God_Hand_Hater07]

i understand that, but i find it odd that the story would introduce a character who is so strong at a distance, who is one of the more useful members of the neo band of the hawk, and that the only thing that is to be done is charge the enemy lines and get up close to him. especially when the neo band of the hawk has so many strong apostles that fight in close combat as well.

[Eldo]

Guts can shoot crossbows.

Ishidoro has a pretty keen eye and coordination. He could be some sort of long ranged expert, given the right amount of training.

Serpico can move like the wind, and I doubt he has reached the full scope harnessing the magical weapons' magical powers.

While Guts' party seems melee based, there might be other potential members who have yet joined the group. I doubt we'll see a confrontation between them anytime soon.

[Istvan]

While Guts' party seems melee based, there might be other potential members who have yet joined the group. I doubt we'll see a confrontation between them anytime soon.

I sure hope not, since at their present level, if Guts and Co. attacked the Neo Hawks (even if just the Apostle component, with Griffith and the humans staying out of it) they'd get slaughtered. A lot will still have to happen before they're ready for that confrontation.

[Muk]

quick question

i don't remember correctly, but was it ever explained in detail how the new griffon was reborn from that black thingy?

i just remember him just appearing out of the sudden without any explanation other then Griffon now is no longer of this realm and if Gutts wants to kill him he too has to leave this realm.

[God_Hand_Hater07]

i believe it was the egg apostle who sacrificed himself to have griffith reborn in the human realm.

[Istvan]

Yeah, the Egg Apostle gave birth to him. Part of what made it possible was that both Guts and Caska being in the same area for so long attracted a huge number of spirits, who were able to form what was basically an equivilant of the eclipse ceremony in the human realm.

[God_Hand_Hater07]

i wouldnt say equivelant to the eclipse more probable is that another apostle sacrificed themself along with all those stupid religous fanatics who tried sacrificing Casca, though im pretty sure they wouldnt coun't because they didnt have the brand of sacrifice on them it just happened to be symbolized by the fire around them.

Would this count as contradidicting myself?

[Istvan]

The way that it formed an equivelant of the eclipse is by the actions of the spirits (which were summoned by Guts and Caska). Take a look at the scenery shortly before Griffith returns, the spirits are forming a huge brand of the sacrifice, an imitation hand tower, imitation God's Hand, the whole deal. They're even taking the place of the Apostles and slaughtering everyone around as "sacrifices", if you want to look at it that way.

[Jon Maitreya]

I always saw the huge brand of sacrifice appearing in the campfires as symbolising the fact that the "old world" was being sacrificed to give birth to the "new world" created by the Behelit Apostle. As he states at one point that what he chose to sacrifice was "the world."

[Khelegond]

Yes, but "his world" were those people. The people that were looking for hope (in the form of Mozgus (sp???) ), and that little place around that hole. So, he sacrificed his world, meaning those guys.

[Istvan]

Yes, but "his world" were those people. The people that were looking for hope (in the form of Mozgus (sp???) ), and that little place around that hole. So, he sacrificed his world, meaning those guys.

In an imediate sense, certainly. One could even argue, however, that by bringing Griffith to the real world, he has sacrificed the entire world as it is, albiet in a slower manner. This has to do with the way in which Griffith's very presence alters the world. I'm not saying all of humanity will die or anything, but the world that currently existed is being sacrificed, and a new world is taking shape.

[Death&Rebirth]

Hm...
Kinda confuses me now. GutsxCaskaxFemto baby that was swallow by the egg apostle was used to arbor the new body of Griffith, right? So that leaves that child founded in the beach by Guts & co. (which has some resemblances with Guts and Caska, although it might not have anything to do with it) to be what exactly? How did he/she appeared?

[hisoka9000]

They mentioned about the last tear Griffith shed at the ceremony but I'm confused when he shed that tear. In the underground jail or after sleeping with the princess or else where? (not at at the ceremony cuz it's blood not tears)

[Istvan]

Hm...
Kinda confuses me now. GutsxCaskaxFemto baby that was swallow by the egg apostle was used to arbor the new body of Griffith, right? So that leaves that child founded in the beach by Guts & co. (which has some resemblances with Guts and Caska, although it might not have anything to do with it) to be what exactly? How did he/she appeared?

Technically, nobody knows. There are theories that the child might be the spirit of their child, or it might be something totally different, we'll just have to wait and see what Miura eventually reveals.

They mentioned about the last tear Griffith shed at the ceremony but I'm confused when he shed that tear. In the underground jail or after sleeping with the princess or else where? (not at at the ceremony cuz it's blood not tears)

Those behelits you saw floating away were (as I understand it) the form of the last tears he shed, which were shed during the ceremony. Even Griffith was capable of feeling sadness over what he'd just done, and those were the tears he shed before such emotions were burned out of him through the ceremony.

[hisoka9000]

Those behelits you saw floating away were (as I understand it) the form of the last tears he shed, which were shed during the ceremony. Even Griffith was capable of feeling sadness over what he'd just done, and those were the tears he shed before such emotions were burned out of him through the ceremony.

I'll try to grasp it but it still seem vague. Thank you.

[thesyndrome]

i'm not really a noobie to berserk, but i am to this board, so this post should go here

how did guts meet godo? maybe its inconsequential, but i was always curious after one scene (V17 chapter 08 page 166-7) where guts completely breaks down in front of him, hang on, i'll type it out (this is a hawks scan which i have, i dont know how different your one is):

guts: you dont know...
godo: resting your ass off in this comfortable place, without a care for the world you're about to pass from
guts (clutches his face and feels his right eyelid): NOBODY, NO HUMAN BEING HAS SEEN...
guts (eclipse background image): all dead...!! not even one left!! they had nothing to do with it....all of a sudden, without any reason...like insects! nothing! not knowing anything!
guts (band of the hawk banners flying in background): everyone was so young...if they were still living they would have done something big! but just that moment...for me...i cant trade anything else for it

now consider guts hasnt acted like this to ANYONE in the entire manga (to my recollection), pouring out all his fear and sadness that he bottled up...to a blacksmith? that he met twice, maybe three times before(from what we've seen in panel time)? and this is the first time he's mentioned the eclipse or death of the band of the hawk to anyone since its occurence, surely puck or rickert should have found out (he had been travelling with puck for almost 2 years, surely some background about why apostles are everywhere wouldnt have hurt).

godo seems to understand guts so well, and guts trusts him enough to let his feelings go. possible transferred father figure here? gambino sucked so much that guts looked to godo as a new dad? i THINK (theory time) that guts met godo shortly after killing gambino and running away, because theres no way he would have been able to survive (or attain a sword like he had when he first met griffith) by himself at the age of 10...whilst wounded...and with only the clothes on his back, a sword and no money.

[Starnum]

I don't think Gatts met Godo that early on. He was found by another mercenary group, and he could have easily have gotten a sword from them. In any case, he definitely felt a strong bond with Godo pretty quickly. There was something about that old blacksmith that Gatts could really relate to and confide in.

[Death&Rebirth]

I don't think Gatts met Godo that early on. He was found by another mercenary group, and he could have easily have gotten a sword from them. In any case, he definitely felt a strong bond with Godo pretty quickly. There was something about that old blacksmith that Gatts could really relate to and confide in.

Well, it's with Godo that he discovered his dream (seeing sparks from swords: Battle on!!!). I think the mercenary theory is much more plausible that finding Godo early on. Don't forget that he had traumatic events with Gambino that makes him not trusting anyone much less be touched by other guys (this sounded so gay...).

Funny how things go. It's Griffith words that make Gatts leave "the Haws" to pursuit his dream and Gatts farewell from "the hawks" that drove Griffith over the edge into downward spiral of despair, or at least that's how i read it.

Technically, nobody knows. There are theories that the child might be the spirit of their child, or it might be something totally different, we'll just have to wait and see what Miura eventually reveals.

Thanks for info. But i doubt that it's their childs spirit, because it is suppose to be in Griffith's body.

[MrFelony]

we don't actually know that the child's "spirit" is supposed to be within griffiths body. the transformation could have seperated griffith's demon sperm/half of the child from the fetus/child that casca and guts were having. I am of the belief that the transformation seperated them, leaving the world with 1 griffith, and 1 child of casca and guts. however, being in the eclipse and having shared some of griffith's demonic seed (let alone being "reborn" by the egg apostle) has left him with unique characteristics.

as a symbol, it could be stretched that he represents the feelins that griffith held for other people. being seperated from him could represent his emotions being seperated from him as well. but thats all speculation.

as for guts sharing all the horrible things to godo, i have to agree with starnum that it's probably because they related a lot. not only that, but he HAD to tell someone. it was sort of a healing period (that didnt end well). and there is something about talking with strangers, or people not even involved in the event, that makes people more willing to open up to them.

[Istvan]

Also, bear in mind that this conversation was effectively right after the eclipse, so he hadn't had any time to deal with it yet. He probably couldn't stop from talking about it and, as MrFelony points out that's often part of the healing process. People he meets later, such as Puck, even if they end up being closer to him are seeing him after he's had time since the eclipse to develope more mental armor.

[Starnum]

I think the mercenary theory is much more plausible that finding Godo early on.

Well, its not really a theory, I'm pretty sure they specifically said he was found by another mercenary group and taken in by them. *shrugs*

[thesyndrome]

Also, bear in mind that this conversation was effectively right after the eclipse, so he hadn't had any time to deal with it yet. He probably couldn't stop from talking about it and, as MrFelony points out that's often part of the healing process. People he meets later, such as Puck, even if they end up being closer to him are seeing him after he's had time since the eclipse to develope more mental armor.

...i think you need to re-read, he talked about this with godo AFTER he had met puck, and left caska; thats a 2 year gap without telling a soul what happened (it cant be said how long the gap is chronologically between when guts leaves godos after the eclipse [V13] and when he meets puck [V1], but i think its fair to assume it was quite soon, as guts wasnt beat up at all in the beginning of V1)

i guess the idea of godo and guts being similar is a reasonable excuse...i guess...

[MrFelony]

He also met godo before the eclipse right? after he left the hawks didnt he train at the watrfall with godo's lil daughter watching? or am i making things up? anyway this would also establish the relationship (even possibly father figure/mento since guts was in dire need of one of those).

[God_Hand_Hater07]

he had been travelling with puck for almost 2 years,

He had been travelling with Puck for two years,its true, but even before that he had been staying at Goto's for years at a time to train, Gatts had a strong bond with Goto before he met puck, and having most of the people he cared about stripped away(eclips), would probably make you value the ones you had left a lot more.