Ron Paul - Hope for America

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The Prince
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Re: Ron Paul - Hope for America

Post by The Prince »

psi29a wrote:
I seriously think you need re-evaluate your aggressiveness here and the point you are trying to make. Perhaps that is the problem, we are not making ourselves clear enough.

The real problem I had was this:
Conservatism, in principle, preaches limited government. While liberalism sides toward socialism. Where socialism is the underlying principle behind communism. Communism that has given rise to fascism (Mussolini) and totalitarianism (Stalin/Mao Zedong). Not to mention the socialism that gave rise Nazi Germany.
I hope you can see why, as I think any poli-sci professor would probably cry. I tried to give more context in my post above as to why this is wrong.

You later cleared this up a bit here:
BTW...Socialism and fascism are each forms of statism, forms of government in which the government is given complete or extensive control over the lives of its citizens. While they may be different in certain respects they are certainly interconnected, and both exist on the opposite side of the political spectrum as far as Capitalism and Republicanism (don't mistake with Republican party) is concerned. Which was the original point that I was getting at.
Thanks, got it. :)

Now my question is: Where are you trying to go with your posts?

Bush is on his way out, yay. Now comes the meat and potatoes which is, who is next?

I'm not a Ron Paul supporter, but frankly he is the only republican other than McCain that I can get behind. Sadly, McCain tried to stand up to the current administration but quickly was put back in line. Growing up as I did in a family of Marines of 3 generations, I have nothing but respect for McCain. If he or Ron is elected President, I hope he can rain in the ungodly spending habits. Romny and Hucklebee can both die in a fire for all I care.

On the democratic side, it is between Obama and Hillary. Obama has the freshman glow about him that rallies the younger folks, the idea that he hasn't been corrupted as much as the rest. Hillary has the support of the older folks and of course women because she is a woman! More to the point, she has been in the white house already, and has more experience than any other presidential candidate because she is the former first lady. The rest of the candidates are worthless.

I'm a switch hitter, I don't like things about both parties. I can find flaws in every candidate. So far the only person who has been consistent throughout his campaign and throughout his life has been Ron Paul, he demonstrated again and again that he has the economic acumen that all the other candidates lack.
- LOL...At this point I have no Idea where this thread is going. This thread has clealry devolved into political mismash. There's plenty of blame to spread around in that, don't single me out on this one.


This all evolved from me taking issue with Aesther. for insinuating America as a whole too racist and sexist to vote for either Clinton or Obama. Later backtracked into stating that racism and sexism spawned from right wing values, which was why I brought up Lincoln's political affiliation. Somewhere the issue of socialism was brought up....yadahh...yadaah.....yadaah....And here we are.

- At this point it is no secret that taking a POV right-of-center on an internet discussion board, especially one such as this, is not exactly the best way of making friends. If my tone has come off as aggressive in my posts here then (w/ one exception) I apologize. But having been clearly singled out here, and dealing with the heavy scrutiny of those who are always going to be in the right, simply because of popular opinion, its hard not to become defensive.


- In regards to the Bush banter and such, I don't know why you are addressing me with this. Its not me who keeps on bringing his name up, as a counter-point to every political argument. My posts on the matter have merely been in response.

Now that the guy is about to be gone, I agree the focus of people's attention should be on his potential successors. Which I applaud you for doing.
MrFelony wrote:Killfiles avatar comes from a t-shirt that basically plays off of the "communist party" idea. http://www.threadless.com/product/383/T ... nist_Party
The Prince wrote:
Aetherfukz wrote:And there we are again, back in the vicious circle of your argumentums ad hominem.
Why don't you explain yourself....instead of copping out with your silly little catch phrase over and over again? Take my last post for example.
I dont really think this applies to the argument besides saying aether doesnt really have much to argue so he'll just sit around saying silly things.

:P
The post I was referring to as "my last post" was my response to psi29 and Killfile. But Yes, that was my point.

but to actually address your argument that killfile is "stretching" to make a connection between bush and facism, you're pretty off. you say that using "manipulation of the media" as grounds for facism is a stretch and I would agree with you. However, killfile didnt just use manipulation of the media as grounds for why Bush is facist in nature, he used about 6 or 7 different qualifiers. Bush meets pretty much all of these pretty well. by only addressing one of these qualifiers, i believe you are the one who's argument is a stretch
Yes he did.

And if the case is so strong, why tarnish it, by bringing things up that allow your argument to be called into question? By "stretch", I'm not saying some case for it can't be made, but nothing wouldn't apply to any other previous administration.
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Re: Ron Paul - Hope for America

Post by Aetherfukz »

The Prince wrote:- LOL...At this point I have no Idea where this thread is going. This thread has clealry devolved into political mismash. There's plenty of blame to spread around in that, don't single me out on this one.
I find this thread entertaining.
The Prince wrote:This all evolved from me taking issue with Aesther. for insinuating America as a whole too racist and sexist to vote for either Clinton or Obama. Later backtracked into stating that racism and sexism spawned from right wing values, which was why I brought up Lincoln's political affiliation. Somewhere the issue of socialism was brought up....yadahh...yadaah.....yadaah....And here we are.
This is Esther:
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This is Aether:
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Anyway, you still haven't showed a valuable counterpoint that recism (more than sexism) does not comply with right wing values in todays environment.
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Re: Ron Paul - Hope for America

Post by MrFelony »

you missed my joke. I was purposefully taking you literally because it was different from your intent. and psi is singling you out because you are the only one on your side ;)
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Re: Ron Paul - Hope for America

Post by Aetherfukz »

MrFelony wrote:and psi is singling you out because you are the only one on your side ;)
That still makes it one more than on Prince's side because [ME > !ME] :D
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Re: Ron Paul - Hope for America

Post by The Prince »

Aetherfukz wrote:
The Prince wrote:- LOL...At this point I have no Idea where this thread is going. This thread has clealry devolved into political mismash. There's plenty of blame to spread around in that, don't single me out on this one.
I find this thread entertaining.
The Prince wrote:This all evolved from me taking issue with Aesther. for insinuating America as a whole too racist and sexist to vote for either Clinton or Obama. Later backtracked into stating that racism and sexism spawned from right wing values, which was why I brought up Lincoln's political affiliation. Somewhere the issue of socialism was brought up....yadahh...yadaah.....yadaah....And here we are.
This is Esther:
Image

This is Aether:
Image

Anyway, you still haven't showed a valuable counterpoint that recism (more than sexism) does not comply with right wing values in todays environment.
Counterpoint to what exactly?

That conservatives won't vote for Obama simply because they are racist?..... Regardless of the fact of him being a hardline liberal? Do I really need to explain the fallacy in this assumption?

Wasn't this your argument?...If not, please refresh my memory for what exactly was.

Mind you, its hard to counter an argument the basis for which is unclear.

MrFelony wrote:you missed my joke. I was purposefully taking you literally because it was different from your intent. and psi is singling you out because you are the only one on your side ;)
Oh I see ha...ha....
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Re: Ron Paul - Hope for America

Post by MrFelony »

a lot of speculation about why obama didn't win new hampshire was because it was a closed vote where as iowa was an open vote. Some people believe that in iowa, people voted for obama because of the social pressures to vote for a black man, but in new hampshire, they could have privately not been ready for a black president and didnt vote for him without the peer pressure
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Re: Ron Paul - Hope for America

Post by MsNomer »

MrFelony wrote:a lot of speculation about why obama didn't win new hampshire was because it was a closed vote where as iowa was an open vote. Some people believe that in iowa, people voted for obama because of the social pressures to vote for a black man, but in new hampshire, they could have privately not been ready for a black president and didnt vote for him without the peer pressure
I think the open vote versus closed vote might have played a role, or New Hampshire simply could have decided they want someone with more experience.
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Re: Ron Paul - Hope for America

Post by Albator »

MrFelony wrote:a lot of speculation about why obama didn't win new hampshire was because it was a closed vote where as iowa was an open vote. Some people believe that in iowa, people voted for obama because of the social pressures to vote for a black man, but in new hampshire, they could have privately not been ready for a black president and didnt vote for him without the peer pressure
Wait, what? Open vote? Like everybody can know who you vote for? They still do that here? I had no idea.
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Re: Ron Paul - Hope for America

Post by Shaka Zulu »

I guess Giuliani didnt bother campaigning much because he had sureshot material like this, how can you not help for this man huh???

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/ar ... 14169.html

http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/23304-rud ... oment-away


Politicians in generally are two-faced and sleazy, but this guy SICKENS me, to actually have the nerve to bethis disgustingly obvious in parading and beating his cheast by using a frigging big tragedy as sole campaigning material. I hope to God he has zero chances of winning.


Btw, not to change the topic, but since when did he do a good job back then? He was just the poster boy that had it piss easy in just happening to be the mayor there (only needs to take advantage of the easier PR points ever by just being infront of a camera, nothing more, saying the cliche obvious and hugging a widow or two). He even made it harder for the professionals to secure the site as best as they could, making egomaniac PR moves that made it harder to have as good security as possible (like having the emergency center in WTC and not in brooklyn as experts wanted to, made it bit hard to cordinate after the attack...). Bill Maher summed up this sad fuck quite well by saying: FDR didn't run on a platform of saying pearl harbor was his finest hour - you don't get to run on a mistake!
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Re: Ron Paul - Hope for America

Post by Tonbo »

MsNomer wrote:
MrFelony wrote:a lot of speculation about why obama didn't win new hampshire was because it was a closed vote where as iowa was an open vote. Some people believe that in iowa, people voted for obama because of the social pressures to vote for a black man, but in new hampshire, they could have privately not been ready for a black president and didnt vote for him without the peer pressure
I think the open vote versus closed vote might have played a role, or New Hampshire simply could have decided they want someone with more experience.
The Iowa caucus is not only open vote, but you can switch sides depending on how the voting looks like it will turn out.
You stand in one corner of the room that identifies you as being for your candidate, but you can move around to another corner to support another candidate if it doesn't look like your chosen politician will win your town s delegate. (... cant find the apostrophe on this foreign keyboard)

The NYTimes ran an article on how Richardson supporters had an alleged agreement with the Obama camp to support Obama if Richardson didnt have enough people to win a delegate. Its also probably why Richardson dropped out so soon, so as not to rob Obama of votes since their supporters tend to overlap.

And yes, NH went with the candidate with experience, though it was pretty darn close.
Edit: And NH is one of the few states that lets independents vote in the primaries, which probably swung the vote towards the centrist candidate.
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