"The White Tree - Racial Injustice in Jena, Louisiana USA"

[Libaax]

http://wtnrradio.com/news/story.php?story=253



Have you guys read or seen anything about this? I knew south USA was ***** racism wise but this is almost too much. What is this the days when it was perfectly normal lynching people....

[Shaka Zulu]

Yeah was about to post this too. I'm a sucker to rant longwinded, but I'm too appalled to, absolutely sickening.

I dont know what I would do if I lived in US (the land of the egalitarian rhetorics, but diminishing democracy, talking about democracy is done more then actually living one), but if there would a particular case that would make me a committed activist and try to make a stand for something however little, this one would easily bring that out of me. Modern day lynching is the perfect description for it...

[psi29a]

Old news, in such that this incident actually happened a few months ago. The article however, is current.

That being said, a lot of people are up in arms about it. Don't expect people in this country to tolerate racism where it exists, they typically rise up to thwart it.

What happened to the white guys? The white victim of the beating was later arrested for bringing a hunting rifle loaded with 13 bullets onto the high school campus and released on $5000 bond. The white man who beat up the black youth at the off-campus party was arrested and charged with simple battery. The white students who hung up the nooses in the "white tree" were never charged.

So the white racist was beaten by a mob of angry blacks. I can't really blame them.

Freedom of Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence. Sometimes that leads to violence.

[Libaax]

Im not shocked this happens in US or how horrible it is and how time has frozen in places like that. The thing that make me angry is this the so called fighter for democracy and this joke of law that gives blacks kids 20 years cause they dont wanna be victims of hate crime... wouldnt happen in europe for example. Any orginasation would react and take it to supreme court and the likes. The attorney,the judge,the so called police everyone would get destoryed. The racist would get years for hate crime.

But in US the land of the free..... the black people in Jena who are too poor to have a good lawyer is screwed and dont have a chance for justice.


It will be interesting to see how this ends if someone powerul enough to do something actually does something for the black kids and thier families or if they really get 20 years for not accepting hate crime....

[Death&Rebirth]

The problem of hate crime in some regions it's still taboo.
And even if everything is going forward, some will still want to stay frozen in time.
I must also say that report doesn't shock me. It's just one example out of other occurrences that got news-worthy. It would more alarming if it happened in a big city or state capital. Per example if find more alarming, what happened in my country. Some months ago, a group of right wing supporters and skin-heads run for student council of one of most prestige faculties of Lisbon. Not only they preached their garbage as well they decided to use their usual tactics of intimidation and hate generating. Hopefully it back-fired, and not only they lost the elections but also they were spot-on and now they have every group of left-wing on lockout for any stupid thing they might pull. And we are talking about Lisbon in Portugal, that although having a deep colonization history it also has a good relation with all their ex-colonies and we are peaceful as the dodongo.
Not that we are example, much the contrary.

Bottom line is, we will pass another 10/20/30 years and we will catch another report of this kind. Unless people there wante to change (and this means teach their kids to be more open-minded and less "racist"), this won't change.

[Shaka Zulu]

Its not about wether or not racism exists and how long it takes for people to change....I prefer people thinking however racist they like....aslong a whole fucking town isnt so totally racist that they have the power to make their own private apartheid. Its actually racism in its most litteral form, that they have power over the minority so much that they can do whatever they want (as said, modern day lynching...), jail them and basically treat these kids like dogs.

[arke]

Im not shocked this happens in US or how horrible it is and how time has frozen in places like that. The thing that make me angry is this the so called fighter for democracy and this joke of law that gives blacks kids 20 years cause they dont wanna be victims of hate crime... wouldnt happen in europe for example. Any orginasation would react and take it to supreme court and the likes. The attorney,the judge,the so called police everyone would get destoryed. The racist would get years for hate crime.

But in US the land of the free..... the black people in Jena who are too poor to have a good lawyer is screwed and dont have a chance for justice.


It will be interesting to see how this ends if someone powerul enough to do something actually does something for the black kids and thier families or if they really get 20 years for not accepting hate crime....

The problem with this, is that you only ever see the bad. You miss out on everything else and it colors your opinion. In case you missed it, the LA ACLU and NAACP are supporting them. Both organizations are well-heeled and will fight it.
So please, save the US bashing for something else.

[Death&Rebirth]

Its not about wether or not racism exists and how long it takes for people to change....I prefer people thinking however racist they like....aslong a whole fucking town isnt so totally racist that they have the power to make their own private apartheid. Its actually racism in its most litteral form, that they have power over the minority so much that they can do whatever they want (as said, modern day lynching...), jail them and basically treat these kids like dogs.

Not contradicting your opinion, but just stating that it isn't "unusual" to happen (although unusual isn't the right word there). Some areas will continue with their prejudice as well there will never be peace in the middle east. Some areas will still be lock on the 60's (or "worser" times) and despiting the apparent "good neighborough" it won't budge of the "old ways". The question is what is to do to resolve this (if it can be resolve that is):

-Not allowing members of the black community to live/work/study there not only it's a segregation move that will make some other areas thinking on doing the same but as well is the same as to the Government (or State Affairs) to accept defeat that clearly they can't control and apply state/national law over the popular rule. As well it's a clear indicator that there's a lot to do inside rather then outside.

-Forcing their way in. Making sure that everyone plays nice is a very strict maneuver to apply not only because when we have the same political rethoric and "propaganda" (because in it's core it isn't that diferent) about "Liberty", "Patriotism" and "Democracy", this would be very aggressive against those principles of "freedom". And let's face as volatile as the situation might be this can tip scale it for the worse.

-Not doing nothing shows what the result is. Only themselves can change this principle, but i think without a good guidance and government help (and i don't mean monetarily), this won't happen when "white boys" learn from their fathers and mothers to despise everything that isn't "white" and be aggressive towards them like there is some godly rule that allows this.

Some years ago i saw a little documentary about a guy, self kkk member, that was arrested because he was convicted of numerous hate crimes that he (and his posse) committed. This guy as two daughters which they would go to school because were being taught by their own mother, but not only she taught little deviant classes (seeing she teaching history it's pure gem) but also white pride songs and dances so they can do in white pride festivals. A good part of the documentary was following the family lifestyle and in the end the kids were so brainwashed that they couldn't in a coherent form say why they hate color people. Not surprising, what her mother taught them was the same thing her mother was taught to. And it's this the very core of the problem. What must be done to break this chain?

Seems this little rant of mine was bit redundant on that point and not trying to be US bashing without a cause, but there is a good point that Libaax arouses. Something must be done to prevent that kind of trials to happen when we have jury that are friendly with the prosecutor attorney, friendly with the proclaimed "victims", or worse, have familiar ties with the victims. In any state of right court this trial couldn't happen because it was certain biased before even starting and if the government it's so interested in spreading democracy, this seems a good step to start on (instead of creating more instable countries/states).For some reason i still prefer "my" European way of having a trial lead by a set of judges and only law officials (attorneys) defending both sides, victim(s) (if he/she/they isn't/aren't dead, of course), accused and in special cases family and other officers can attend the (multiple) hearings/trials.

[arke]

It's fact time!

Not contradicting your opinion, but just stating that it isn't "unusual" to happen (although unusual isn't the right word there). Some areas will continue with their prejudice as well there will never be peace in the middle east. Some areas will still be lock on the 60's (or "worser" times) and despiting the apparent "good neighborough" it won't budge of the "old ways". The question is what is to do to resolve this (if it can be resolve that is):

Yes, some areas still have rampant racism. Other areas you wouldn't notice that someone is of race X.

-Not allowing members of the black community to live/work/study there not only it's a segregation move that will make some other areas thinking on doing the same but as well is the same as to the Government (or State Affairs) to accept defeat that clearly they can't control and apply state/national law over the popular rule. As well it's a clear indicator that there's a lot to do inside rather then outside.

Illegal.

-Forcing their way in. Making sure that everyone plays nice is a very strict maneuver to apply not only because when we have the same political rethoric and "propaganda" (because in it's core it isn't that diferent) about "Liberty", "Patriotism" and "Democracy", this would be very aggressive against those principles of "freedom". And let's face as volatile as the situation might be this can tip scale it for the worse.

Again, illegal.

-Not doing nothing shows what the result is. Only themselves can change this principle, but i think without a good guidance and government help (and i don't mean monetarily)

Done.

Some years ago i saw a little documentary about a guy, self kkk member, that was arrested because he was convicted of numerous hate crimes that he (and his posse) committed. This guy as two daughters which they would go to school because were being taught by their own mother, but not only she taught little deviant classes (seeing she teaching history it's pure gem) but also white pride songs and dances so they can do in white pride festivals. A good part of the documentary was following the family lifestyle and in the end the kids were so brainwashed that they couldn't in a coherent form say why they hate color people. Not surprising, what her mother taught them was the same thing her mother was taught to. And it's this the very core of the problem. What must be done to break this chain?

You just saw it.

Seems this little rant of mine was bit redundant on that point and not trying to be US bashing without a cause, but there is a good point that Libaax arouses.

I'll admit, I chuckled.

Something must be done to prevent that kind of trials to happen when we have jury that are friendly with the prosecutor attorney, friendly with the proclaimed "victims", or worse, have familiar ties with the victims. In any state of right court this trial couldn't happen because it was certain biased before even starting

It was a local trial, not a state trial.

For some reason i still prefer "my" European way of having a trial lead by a set of judges and only law officials (attorneys) defending both sides, victim(s) (if he/she/they isn't/aren't dead, of course), accused and in special cases family and other officers can attend the (multiple) hearings/trials.

Funny, because that's how we do it as well! Fancy that, the US with its European heritage does things similarly!

[Death&Rebirth]

Funny, because that's how we do it as well! Fancy that, the US with its European heritage does things similarly!

Except the european don't have the jury and that's my main peeve on the issue which makes all the diference.

It was a local trial, not a state trial.

Which doesn't minimize the judicial loophole that is and it's inefficiency, as it fails to grant justice for all, without looking biased to color, ethnicity or religion. Which doesn't contradicts a bit the statement i made, nor it gives any indication that it suffix to work.

I'll admit, I chuckled.

Ok, since you find funny with so little: "points out" (although a bit redundant), "creates", "suggest", etc.

You just saw it.

I saw one example, which is repeated with this more contemporaneous case. Like i said earlier, this was one example that got news worthy. Other cases happen daily with low or as big importance as this one (bigger would be a real lynching, i suppose) which aren't granted the airwaves to become "news".

Illegal.

Never said it was. By suggesting i was not implying that it was legal to do it, by the most obvious reasons.
And no government in this world follows the law (you can find from Constitution contradictions to created illegal amends that allow a safe-door for every move). If need to be, they bend the rules when they know it's worth to bend them.

Again, illegal.

Again, never said that it was. Again the same statement as above.

Done.

And are you happy with the result?

Yes, some areas still have rampant racism. Other areas you wouldn't notice that someone is of race X.

Never said that it was spread to all the country. But at some extend you can't conclude that some areas are racism-free. At a minimum point every human being is "racist" (independently of what color, ethnicity or religion you are) . What you might say, it's that in some other areas, the probability of a "hate crime" to appear (and i'm not going to follow the "fixed" trial supposition) is so minimal that it "can't happen" comparing with the report's example which probability is big enough to happen more regularly. The conditions can be so many but the most obvious is because the ethnicity is better "divided" within the area.

[Libaax]

Im not shocked this happens in US or how horrible it is and how time has frozen in places like that. The thing that make me angry is this the so called fighter for democracy and this joke of law that gives blacks kids 20 years cause they dont wanna be victims of hate crime... wouldnt happen in europe for example. Any orginasation would react and take it to supreme court and the likes. The attorney,the judge,the so called police everyone would get destoryed. The racist would get years for hate crime.

But in US the land of the free..... the black people in Jena who are too poor to have a good lawyer is screwed and dont have a chance for justice.


It will be interesting to see how this ends if someone powerul enough to do something actually does something for the black kids and thier families or if they really get 20 years for not accepting hate crime....

The problem with this, is that you only ever see the bad. You miss out on everything else and it colors your opinion. In case you missed it, the LA ACLU and NAACP are supporting them. Both organizations are well-heeled and will fight it.
So please, save the US bashing for something else.

They have not done anything yet which is i said it will interesting to see if something is done by outside forces like those orginasations.


If you think reacting against systamatic rasism is only about US bashing then thats your buisness. I care about those poor kids. Im angry for them.

What you think US is so holy that you cant critizise something like this......

[psi29a]

What you think US is so holy that you cant critizise something like this......

You at once said 'that is your business', then turn around and make it your business.

Be careful where you want this thread to go.

It is about racism, not about the US.

[arke]

First, I'll let you in on a little secret: I trolled you. Really.

Except the european don't have the jury and that's my main peeve on the issue which makes all the diference.

You mean not a single European court allows a trial by one's peers? (somewhat serious question)

Which doesn't minimize the judicial loophole that is and it's inefficiency, as it fails to grant justice for all, without looking biased to color, ethnicity or religion. Which doesn't contradicts a bit the statement i made, nor it gives any indication that it suffix to work.

It's a local trial. Which means it's pretty isolated. Which means that if you have a problem with the outcome, you appeal and it works its way up. This is far more efficient than bogging down state courts. Remember, cases like this are in the extreme minority.

Ok, since you find funny with so little: "points out" (although a bit redundant), "creates", "suggest", etc.

While I'm no Shakespeare, I'm still excellent with the English language. What you wrote was a double entendre.

I saw one example, which is repeated with this more contemporaneous case. Like i said earlier, this was one example that got news worthy. Other cases happen daily with low or as big importance as this one (bigger would be a real lynching, i suppose) which aren't granted the airwaves to become "news".

Hmm, for some reason you appear to be more versed in US news than I, a native of the country. The point is that the best way to break the chain is to place bigotry in the limelight. Hiding it won't fix it.

Never said it was. By suggesting i was not implying that it was legal to do it, by the most obvious reasons.
And no government in this world follows the law (you can find from Constitution contradictions to created illegal amends that allow a safe-door for every move). If need to be, they bend the rules when they know it's worth to bend them.

Original point: it was illegal and would never ever happen. Not because it's illegal, but because doing so gains no political capital.

And are you happy with the result?

Yeah. The laws are mostly fine with regards to race (nothing is perfect, but the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments are pretty clear).

Never said that it was spread to all the country. But at some extend you can't conclude that some areas are racism-free. At a minimum point every human being is "racist" (independently of what color, ethnicity or religion you are) . What you might say, it's that in some other areas, the probability of a "hate crime" to appear (and i'm not going to follow the "fixed" trial supposition) is so minimal that it "can't happen" comparing with the report's example which probability is big enough to happen more regularly. The conditions can be so many but the most obvious is because the ethnicity is better "divided" within the area.

You implied it heavily. And yes, if you want to be technical, everyone is racist, blah blah. You still extrapolated an isolated case to apply to the entire nation.

[Death&Rebirth]

First, I'll let you in on a little secret: I trolled you. Really.

Must be one of the perks of being an admin...

You mean not a single European court allows a trial by one's peers? (somewhat serious question)

Don't have any example of it at the moment. Pretty much have the notion, considering the examples that i followed that, even if there's a jury bench this isn't formed by the "ordinary Joe" but people connected to the judicial system. Maybe the (very) local courts. Also it doesn't sound very convincing to have a "trial by one's peers". It looks very good in theory and it may show some good results, but in a longer spectrum, seems very mistake inducing and I just don't mean the celebrity trials like Michael Jackson or O.J. for that matter. I mean would, a killer could have jury compose of fellow killers in trial, considering the phrase "trial by one's peers"? Or a robber for that matter (if the example is too extreme)? Even knowing the onus of the phrase relies in "peers" being fellow members of the community and that every suspect is innocent until proved guilty, seems much more a formality that something really efficient. We can argue about it until exhaustion, but we will never achieve accord, i think, in this matter. Don't misunderstand, i can see both good things, like evolving every members of the community more in the life of society and speeding up the trials resolution, and bad things like the selection, composition and capability of a member for the rule (which is subjective to begin with), on condition of the"jury" in US judicial system. But i find the bad things of it much more problematic to be overshadow by the good things of it.

It's a local trial. Which means it's pretty isolated. Which means that if you have a problem with the outcome, you appeal and it works its way up. This is far more efficient than bogging down state courts. Remember, cases like this are in the extreme minority.

Not disagreeing and pretty much that's how trials and appeals work in every judicial system, although it only works when there's possibility (monetary) for a family to work their way up.

While I'm no Shakespeare, I'm still excellent with the English language. What you wrote was a double entendre.

Yes i know, but i was expecting the conversation to rely less on the "penis joke inducing" aspect of the word

Hmm, for some reason you appear to be more versed in US news than I, a native of the country. The point is that the best way to break the chain is to place bigotry in the limelight. Hiding it won't fix it.

Never said that hiding was an option, much the contrary. But given just limelight might be not enough, specially if they want to get some name for themselves (Media=Attention=Money). And for being well versed, I am an anthropologist which have its perks like accessing reports from inner-local or outer-local investigators per example or receive simple news that we don't see in the daily newspaper.

Original point: it was illegal and would never ever happen. Not because it's illegal, but because doing so gains no political capital.

I think that's pretty cover up with the sentence "If need to be, they bend the rules when they know it's worth to bend them"

Yeah. The laws are mostly fine with regards to race (nothing is perfect, but the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments are pretty clear).

Care to elaborate more please. I may have some interests in how judicial systems works worldwide but i'm not familiar with all extend with all nations constitutions (or "Bill of Rights").

You implied it heavily. And yes, if you want to be technical, everyone is racist, blah blah. You still extrapolated an isolated case to apply to the entire nation.

I beg to differ, since there's no really implication of what you point out being my doing, much less when i minimize it a bit as seeing less worry that the case i posted to begin with, which happened in my home country. Seems much more you over read my statement. I recall using the term "some areas", which isn't an "extrapolation" last time i saw, much less a "generalization". I didn't use Nation wide or World wide terms. I only said that racism is everywhere and that it doesn't end only with color, statement which you also agree with.

[Libaax]

What you think US is so holy that you cant critizise something like this......

You at once said 'that is your business', then turn around and make it your business.

Be careful where you want this thread to go.

It is about racism, not about the US.

What i meant is you can critisize this thing in Jena without someone whining about US bashing.

Since this is happening in US.


I have no interest in talking about US in general not in this thread.

[MsNomer]

I saw one example, which is repeated with this more contemporaneous case. Like i said earlier, this was one example that got news worthy. Other cases happen daily with low or as big importance as this one (bigger would be a real lynching, i suppose) which aren't granted the airwaves to become "news".

Hmm, for some reason you appear to be more versed in US news than I, a native of the country. The point is that the best way to break the chain is to place bigotry in the limelight. Hiding it won't fix it.

While it is true the US media would sensationalize other hate crimes that exceed the level of violence as cited in the example of Jena, it is not true that for every Jena there are hundreds of equally abhorrent crimes taking place unseen. There are without a doubt many acts of prejudice going on in this country on the individual level, but the holier than thou attitude that this topic has been approached with is more than I can swallow at this point.

Our government does not "systematically" endorse this type of behavior, unlike certain institutional discriminations practiced in Europe that have led to the burning of cars and riots lasting for days on end or certain Scandinavian countries where housing for immigrants is provided in the most inconvenient areas outside of cities (I know that hardly sounds like a hardship, but these are the same places where car ownership or at the very least, use, are discouraged by design. Try parking in a Scandinavian city anywhere near your destination) and their CVs specify low level employment opportunities or other countries where a difference between Catholicism and Protestantism saw unrest and terroristic attacks for over 100 years.

In the US, our "hate crime" coverage in the media does not follow the logic of the cockroach infestation... if you see one you have thousands.. no, in this particular area, if you see one, you have one.

The Jena situation is terrible, mismanaged from the start, but I am confident that with the aid of the ACLU and ongoing media attention, justice will prevail.

[reiketsu]

Black people. White people. They might live to bite each other on certain places of the oh-so-blessed-USA but they will always forget their issues to go and, together, burn a Mexico's flag. And I wish I were just being sarcastic but, unfortunately, I saw it on the news months ago.

[Tonbo]

Well I guess that's that. Convictions tossed. World back to normal.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/14/jena.six/index.html

I wonder if Sharpton and Jesse Jackson will still hold their rally.

[Shisho]

(Kids are fucking dumb.)^2 + (Mass societies will never completely agree or control every facet of itself.) = Teh Wurld.

I guess you can say it's a short lifespan problem. People have to learn shit from scratch over and over, and when people start neglecting in that process you get all sorts of retarded things proliferating the globe.

[Starnum]

What i meant is you can critisize this thing in Jena without someone whining about US bashing.

Since this is happening in US.

I have no interest in talking about US in general not in this thread.

I knew south USA was ***** racism

Yes well, I'm from the south US, and I'm not racist at all. So, as long as we're not stereotyping here, thanks.

[Brainpiercing]

Somehow I think some people have a slightly too simple view of this incident. Those six black youths are apparently guilty of beating up a guy, six vs. one and severly injuring him. That's a crime in my book.

They were treated unjustly in court, and that's a terrible thing. But when people are rallying to get them freed, then they are missing the point: They SHOULD get a retrial, that's all. One where they are treated fairly, and where their crime is fairly judged. They certainly shouldn't get around being judged at all. Just because they have been victim to racist slurs doesn't mean they get the right to take justice into their own hands and act violently themselves, and then get off scot free.

Hate crime goes both ways. Self-defence is one thing, but violently beating a guy to the ground in a group of six people is entirely another matter.

So, don't free the Jena 6, give them a fair retrial.

[MrFelony]

I think part of the freeing them thing was, if i remember correctly, that the boy had been in JAIL since december of last year on a bogus trial, not that the charges would just be dropped