Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

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Abortion... one hot topic. Your stance?

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Total votes : 53

Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby Buzkashi » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:35 pm

Better to be born in hell then never born at all.
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby War Machine » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:08 am

There might be some people who disagree with you on that statement.
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby Fuji Nagase » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:32 pm

probably those kids who were born in hell...
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby Buzkashi » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:05 pm

Not if there religious.
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby Fuji Nagase » Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:18 am

if they are then they:

1) believe in hell and thus has a hell to go to (as opposed to not being religious in the way you described, i.e. christian..ect)
2) against abortion and appriciates their life no matter the pain


so...im split here.
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby MsNomer » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:48 am

Maybe I'm being redundant, maybe I have already said this... I didn't re read the whole thread after my absence, but here goes:

Parasite: n. a person, animal, or plant that lives in or on or at the expense of another (called the host).

Having been pregnant (at least twice if you count my children), I can assure you that even if they are not speaking of it, a lot of women feel like their little unborn bundle of joy is a parasite. This little unformed person changes a woman's circadian rhythm, alters her appetites and tastes and inflicts nausea, vomiting and medical conditions on her like gestational diabetes. That seems to fit the definition, from a strictly analytical point of view.

I only have 2 other points to bring up.
1. For all those that do not believe in abortion... DON'T HAVE ONE.
2. For all those that don't want someone else to have an abortion... WILL YOU ADOPT, PAY INCREASED TAXES TO SUPPORT, WORK IN SOCIAL SERVICES TO PROTECT, LET THEM BUILD A HOLDING FACILITY IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD TO HOUSE, SPONSOR AN ADDICTION CLINIC TO CLEAN UP these unwanted children? If you are unwilling to live with: another mouth to feed and back to dress, added crime, poorer standards of living, and your other war cry after "Pro-Life"!!! is NIMBY! Then I suggest that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. MYOB.
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby Tonbo » Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:52 am

Well said.
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby The Herald » Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:59 am

Now that you put it that way, I agree entirely.

On another note, my friend was born of a mother who was addicted to cocaine. She was born 3 months early and had to go through cocaine detox when she was a baby. She was adopted after that, her mother didn't want her. She's half deaf and had to learn sign language when she was in elementary school, in case she went completely deaf. She has a brother by the same mother and father and he is completely deaf. She doesn't know how many other siblings she has. My point is that this is a person everyone, including me, would argue to be aborted, as well as the rest of ber siblings. Now she's graduated as a top oil painter in our high school. Stories like this are why I feel reluctant about the whole abortion issue. The funny thing is that when everyone in my whole extended family was born it was a happy thing. It's just so sad to think of a child not being wanted out there.
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby Fuji Nagase » Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:32 am

Her mother made the CHOICE to have the child. i dont like the idea of unwanted children as well. i dont like the idea of an unwanted fetus either. there are many cases where a simple pill or patch or condom could have resolved the issue and others where it wouldnt matter because they already did that/those and it happened anyway. i have no doubt that what would become of an aborted fetus could either be MLK or Hitler. nobody knows therefore nobody can argue that "that women just killed out next savior!".

maybe i am just really ignorant about this so im hopeing someone could clear this up for me: if God is against abortion and God is so powerful, why doesnt he stop it? make the procedure impossible or something. is it because God gave us free will and thus he must rely on the power of his believers to sway the other's into not preforming it? i just dont get why if its such a bad thing to have an abortion in God's eyes, why dont they get smited or something? if God cares so much. if its SUCH a bad thing. or is the idea that God says Killing is wrong and that abortion is killing? because many argue that it isnt its own life until it isnt a parasyte anymore and can survive without the host.im sorry, i think im just ranting...but im confused about what the God argument holds sometimes.

i feel bad for the fathers who wanted a child and would be willing to pay for everything and raise the child and all that, but in the end, he cant volunteer to bare the child, thus i dont think there is a way i can agree with any rule that forces a woman to have it.
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby Eldo » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:21 am

The Herald wrote:On another note, my friend was born of a mother who was addicted to cocaine. She was born 3 months early and had to go through cocaine detox when she was a baby. She was adopted after that, her mother didn't want her. She's half deaf and had to learn sign language when she was in elementary school, in case she went completely deaf. She has a brother by the same mother and father and he is completely deaf. She doesn't know how many other siblings she has. My point is that this is a person everyone, including me, would argue to be aborted, as well as the rest of ber siblings. Now she's graduated as a top oil painter in our high school. Stories like this are why I feel reluctant about the whole abortion issue. The funny thing is that when everyone in my whole extended family was born it was a happy thing. It's just so sad to think of a child not being wanted out there.


As mentioned by Fuji, it was the mother's choice to have the baby. While the story is touching about how a handicapped individual is able to overcome her disadvantages and is talented, doesn't mean that because of her disabilities, she should be aborted. Let's get this straight. Pro-choice does not follow the ideology of 'survival of the fittest'. This isn't Spartan society. And in addition, it doesn't mean that because the child was predicted to be handicapped that he/she should be aborted. It's the mother's choice to keep the baby. You're following the logic that an aborted baby could have the potential to become Newton, Picasso, etc as mentioned by a previous poster. An aborted baby doesn't mean that if the mother was to keep the baby he would become worthless, it just means that the mother may not be ready to bare the responsibilities to nurture the potential Newton, Picasso and whatever. If a couple has an unplanned pregnancy, and decided to keep the baby, that's still pro-choice.

With the Danish cartoonists, I wasn't so much shocked that they drew Mohammad, but more that they associated terrorism to an entire religion. I wouldn't have felt that passionate against a depiction of the prophet, because I'm an atheist and simply don't know or care too much about this matter. The biggest problem was the association with terrorism. Muslims are stereotypically perceived as potential terrorists by many people around the world, especially by the government. We didn't need to continuing fanning the flames of hate and ignorance. Sure, they did nothing wrong by the law of free speech, but it was morally wrong. This is my opinion, and not my stance. I acknowledge that the cartoon was wrong (not by law) and offensive, but cannot fault free speech for it. I make similar Family Guy like jokes, and take Asian jokes my way, so I can't play the holier than thou card, and I know the above opinion does make me seem a tad hypocritical. But I would never associate any race or religion to be terrorists, especially at this time of sensitivity. Even I have limits.

I think a split is necessary. This is divulging off topic. Reminds me of that burning cootie thread and how a religion thread spun off that.
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby The Prince » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:24 am

Buzkashi wrote:We got a lot of baby killers in here.


I'm pro-choice. But this is a very personal issue for me.

I can't agree with how cut and dry, smart vs. stupid....etc...people want to make this out to be.

There are many reasons out there to show why abortion is abherrant....ex.) Within 2nd trimester fetus has a fully functional CNS. As well as there are many reasons why abortion may be justified....ex.) Health of the mother, rape, incest,..etc.

But there is a such thing as personal responsibility as well.


Fuji Nagase wrote:
many people hate abortion but support the death penalty. if its okay to kill a murderer who killed 8 people, then what if a woman had saved 8 people and got pregnant? i guess its okay to get an abortion now isnt it. its all bullshit. abortion shouldnt be our focus. we have too many more important things to talk about than this..i know many people have said that, but its so true. hm. okay. done.


Huh???
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby Israfel74 » Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:37 am

Is anybody else irritated by how we separate people into "pro-life" or "pro-choice"? IMHO it's a terrible way to frame the issue and it WAY oversimplifies the debate. Very few people fall into the cartoon caricature of either camp. Anyway, not to bring this point back up again, but using the word "parasite" to describe a fetus is kind of a red herring. I know it's not being used as an argument per se but it does seem to suggest that a certain type of argument has merit. Consider that, although not medically "parasites", children can be meaningfully defined as "parasites" until they become financially independent or can at least survive without the aid of their parents. The "parasite" argument (although, again, nobody really made it here) seems to imply to me that there is a significant difference between ending the existence of a late-term fetus and an infant. That difference is not significant in my eyes. I don't know on what grounds a person can argue that it is.

I view the debate about abortion not as one about "choice" but as one about happiness, suffering, and life. A very, very complex debate about happiness, suffering, and life. I don't really understand the argument that sanctifies choice for choice's sake. If you can argue that unrestricted choice in aborting a fetus at a given stage of pregnancy will produce a better result with respect to human happiness, suffering, and life, I'm with you. If you can argue the opposing view better I'm going with that solution. It's murky as hell, though.

Fuji Nagase wrote: If God is against abortion and God is so powerful, why doesnt he stop it? Is it because God gave us free will?


Don't ignore the possibility that neither God nor free will exist. :D
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby Xandarg » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:15 am

[Had an entire philosophical soliloquy written involving different ways of looking at human life and why it is wrong to kill, and what bearing that moral decision has on determining whether or not is it morally acceptable to abort a fetus and during what stage of life, etc., but then deleted it because it was scattered and uninteresting.]


---

Israfel74 wrote:Is anybody else irritated by how we separate people into "pro-life" or "pro-choice"? IMHO it's a terrible way to frame the issue and it WAY oversimplifies the debate.


I agree. I, myself, am neither pro-choice nor pro-life, but pro-abortion. I'm just dramatically in favor of abortions under any and all circumstances. Even in fields unrelated to pregnancy; I like aborting missions, aborting launch sequences. I may even abort this sente...
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby Tonbo » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:46 pm

Xandarg wrote:[

Israfel74 wrote:Is anybody else irritated by how we separate people into "pro-life" or "pro-choice"? IMHO it's a terrible way to frame the issue and it WAY oversimplifies the debate.


I agree. I, myself, am neither pro-choice nor pro-life, but pro-abortion. I'm just dramatically in favor of abortions under any and all circumstances. Even in fields unrelated to pregnancy; I like aborting missions, aborting launch sequences. I may even abort this sente...


Haha... that's pretty funny. Also about the whole pro-life dichota... it's one of many terms dreamed up by right wing think tanks to purposely over simplify while obfuscating the true issue. What kind of images are conjured up by the words pro and life? I might not really understand what they mean together but I don't want to be against it. What comes to mind when you think partial birth abortion? That's not a medical term and yet right wingers have us using it all the time for that extra emotional kick.
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby Xandarg » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:56 am

Tonbo wrote:it's one of many terms dreamed up by right wing think tanks to purposely over simplify while obfuscating the true issue. What kind of images are conjured up by the words pro and life? I might not really understand what they mean together but I don't want to be against it. What comes to mind when you think partial birth abortion? That's not a medical term and yet right wingers have us using it all the time for that extra emotional kick.


Agreed. The language used in a debate deeply affects how we think about issues and is often used by spin-doctors to subliminally twist people's understanding. (Except for in O'Reilly's "no-spin zone," absolutely no spin going on there.)
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby The Herald » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:09 am

What if the condom didn't work and the couple hate each other, and if the baby was born it would ruin their natural lives, do you think an abortion is okay? I mean, they already made the choice not to have a child, at this point it's the condom manufacturer's fault.
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby Eldo » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:50 am

The Herald wrote:What if the condom didn't work and the couple hate each other, and if the baby was born it would ruin their natural lives, do you think an abortion is okay? I mean, they already made the choice not to have a child, at this point it's the condom manufacturer's fault.


Condom manufacturers has never claimed that condoms are 100% effective (in actuality something like 97% or something), so they are not responsible for it. If the couple hate each other and they don't want to keep the baby, yes, an abortion would be alright. I don't see what the problem is here.
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby halfnhalf » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:34 pm

The Herald wrote:What if the condom didn't work and the couple hate each other, and if the baby was born it would ruin their natural lives, do you think an abortion is okay? I mean, they already made the choice not to have a child, at this point it's the condom manufacturer's fault.



You are making a "What If" question. It hasn't happened, but it could happen, but at the same time it could never happen. Of course though, the argument of abortion is just in the public's mind because it has to do with LIFE. Where do we have the ability to prevent a life from coming into existence? it also goes the other direction.

Abortion will be present in debates unless something radically happens with our laws (I'm in the US), like China's one child per family law, just as an example. It is a trivial debate. The best way to avoid it, is to make ensure you understand the situation. If you are fucking like rabbits, then wear a condom AND make sure she is on the pill, or at least has the after morning pill ready to go. If you are catholic and cant use condoms, why are you fucking? pick a side and stick with it (btw anal is a great way to avoid having a baby and still keeping your virginity). Always be on top of who and what you are doing. The people that get into these situations are idiots and honestly i really hope that they do go for the abortion, to ensure the longevity of human existence relies on it.
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby elric le tueur d'amis » Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:40 am

they won't abort cause they are too dumb to understand that they are idiots;
don't underestimate the idiots, they are the first to reproduce themselves cause they rely on their primal instincts...
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby Gaiseric » Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:58 am

halfnhalf wrote: (btw anal is a great way to avoid having a baby and still keeping your virginity)


Sorry, butt sex does not a virgin make.
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby Libaax » Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:33 pm


With the Danish cartoonists, I wasn't so much shocked that they drew Mohammad, but more that they associated terrorism to an entire religion. I wouldn't have felt that passionate against a depiction of the prophet, because I'm an atheist and simply don't know or care too much about this matter. The biggest problem was the association with terrorism. Muslims are stereotypically perceived as potential terrorists by many people around the world, especially by the government. We didn't need to continuing fanning the flames of hate and ignorance. Sure, they did nothing wrong by the law of free speech, but it was morally wrong. This is my opinion, and not my stance. I acknowledge that the cartoon was wrong (not by law) and offensive, but cannot fault free speech for it. I make similar Family Guy like jokes, and take Asian jokes my way, so I can't play the holier than thou card, and I know the above opinion does make me seem a tad hypocritical. But I would never associate any race or religion to be terrorists, especially at this time of sensitivity. Even I have limits.

I think a split is necessary. This is divulging off topic. Reminds me of that burning cootie thread and how a religion thread spun off that.



Well put Eldo. Thats why i was so frustrated,angry about what those Danish cartoonist and everyone that made exuses for them with how holy free speeach are.

Us Muslims specially in the west doesnt need more being more hated, its already bad post 9/11. Hate crime against muslims are like 400% higher even here in sweden.

Only good those guys did was do Bush and his kind a service. Made it look like even more West vs East/islam by making it look like all muslims are terrorist. You cant imagine how many ignorant talk you hear. People expect to you agree with Bin Ladin and his kind....

If there is someone i hate in this world its Bin Ladin and his kind....


Sorry for being off topic, i just liked your post. Most nun muslims i have seen talk about this dont understand.
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby DrPepperPro » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:57 am

Many of you have probably already seen this, but:

"Pro life is anti-woman" -George Carlin
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby Albator » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:12 pm

Libaax wrote:

With the Danish cartoonists, I wasn't so much shocked that they drew Mohammad, but more that they associated terrorism to an entire religion. I wouldn't have felt that passionate against a depiction of the prophet, because I'm an atheist and simply don't know or care too much about this matter. The biggest problem was the association with terrorism. Muslims are stereotypically perceived as potential terrorists by many people around the world, especially by the government. We didn't need to continuing fanning the flames of hate and ignorance. Sure, they did nothing wrong by the law of free speech, but it was morally wrong. This is my opinion, and not my stance. I acknowledge that the cartoon was wrong (not by law) and offensive, but cannot fault free speech for it. I make similar Family Guy like jokes, and take Asian jokes my way, so I can't play the holier than thou card, and I know the above opinion does make me seem a tad hypocritical. But I would never associate any race or religion to be terrorists, especially at this time of sensitivity. Even I have limits.

I think a split is necessary. This is divulging off topic. Reminds me of that burning cootie thread and how a religion thread spun off that.




Hijack continuing.

I am reading the God Delusion book (lots of flying these days, need something to do and no cash to justify a DS, dammit), and Dawkins actually mention these cartoons. By his account, the most aggravating pictures were actually added to the mix by the very same fundamentalists who spread them, in order to create some mayhem.

I found this pretty crazy and borderline unbelievable, as nobody in the mainstream media mentioned this. Truth or false?
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby MsNomer » Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:53 am

Albator wrote:
I found this pretty crazy and borderline unbelievable, as nobody in the mainstream media mentioned this. Truth or false?


I can't quote the source, but I have heard this before int he context of some class I took a couple semesters ago. I will work on finding the source.
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Re: Can I tell you how stupid… (about Abortion)

Postby Eldo » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:28 pm

Albator wrote:I am reading the God Delusion book (lots of flying these days, need something to do and no cash to justify a DS, dammit), and Dawkins actually mention these cartoons. By his account, the most aggravating pictures were actually added to the mix by the very same fundamentalists who spread them, in order to create some mayhem.

I found this pretty crazy and borderline unbelievable, as nobody in the mainstream media mentioned this. Truth or false?


Is there an updated version of the book or something? I don't remember reading that part. Maybe I have a terrible memory.

I faintly recall that it was mentioned in a news program in Australia, called 4 Corners. I don't think it hit mainstream media though. There were probably more important things going on at the time, like cat stuck in tree.
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