48% of Americans Reject Evolution

[RanShi]

Religion and science..

If you really think about evolution..it's very, very boring.

Your ancestor, a water-living creature, and his descendants, tried getting up on the shore for centuries..
And yes, the randomly "mutated" few ones who could survive on land became a new species and so on....

And, it seems we have alot of evidence backing evolution, while it's got alot of holes too.

Don't follow it blindly.

---

I'm not religious either..all the Christians I have met have been too much into that Jesus-stuff; everything I do that is of good will and comes from me myself, they interpret as an act where Jesus has helped me, or a situation where I have gotten closer to Jesus. And it would seem it doesn't matter a bit how good or evil (the christian definition of good and evil) I am, as long as I believe in Jesus Christ and redeem myself, everything will be alright.

I spit on that, it's now my way of life. But I like it when people have their beliefs, and it'd be a shame to see christianity fade away; it also teaches people who haven't been able to develope an independant way of thinking how to act in a better way towards others and etc.

The same with Islam, some muslims think I act virtuous and bla bla bla, but then it's revealed I don't even believe in god and suddenly I'm the unfaithful one.

If I don't need god in order to feel complete, even if he exists, then whats wrong with respecting the idea of god (not as portayed in berserk =P) in the different religions, but not depending on deities or expecting to get any help?

---

one part of me:

But still, I belive in some kind of ... god. The universe can't be "never ending" and theres gotta be a treshold somewhere..and if that's the border to another universe, then fine. Or another realm. But SOMEWHERE; it has to end, everything else fails to make sense in my human head. My weakness perhaps.

Outside that, where everything eventually ends, there is the inifinite, endless, timeless; the perfect.
Call it god, I call it a consciousness that created things and made them possible. Mathematics, chemistry, biology, everything just feels too well made.

And then the basic question pops up in my head: then, what created God?

Everything might be never ending, just a series of random events. And the world, universe and life itself is objectively seen meaningless, whether a "god" exists or not. If something has created everything, why the hell would that give the creator a reason to give a damn about the individuals instead of the reocurring phenomenon of life, death and birth, etc.

Why would "god" give a damn about anything at all?

And I find bliss in that meaninglessness, that void, that chaos, knowing that everythings just messed up.

[Eldo]

If you really think about evolution..it's very, very boring.

Your ancestor, a water-living creature, and his descendants, tried getting up on the shore for centuries..
And yes, the randomly "mutated" few ones who could survive on land became a new species and so on....

You know this little thing called 'gravity'? If you think about it, that's incredibly boring too. A force that's anchoring us to the ground, and not by any higher order or witchcraft? Think about it, that's impossible. It's our souls that ground us to the Earth. But wait a minute. Gravity has evidence supporting it, but the soul thing doesn't. But it sounds more interesting anyway.

Hey, you know that guy L Ron Hubbard? He thought science was boring too, and wrote some fiction up which became a religion. Amazing, eh?

And, it seems we have alot of evidence backing evolution, while it's got alot of holes too.
'
Don't follow it blindly.

The same could be said about religion, where there is no evidence supporting the existence of God. Yet, people follow it blindly. Not every theory is perfect. However, evolution is offering an explanation to how we became to be today, rather than suggesting that some God out there made us already via intelligent design where we had co-existed with dinosaurs at one point, and all the fossil evidence of human existence were eaten by the dinosaurs, and the human race at that point flew out to space and came back after the meteor hit the Earth.

If I don't need god in order to feel complete, even if he exists, then whats wrong with respecting the idea of god (not as portayed in berserk =P) in the different religions, but not depending on deities or expecting to get any help?

Then what's the point of believing in a religion? I've yet to meet a religious person who has placed their belief in a particular religion without wanting some sort of outcome in the end, whether it be going to heaven at the end or whatever. To most atheists, you can't respect God when it doesn't exist. You could only respect people and their beliefs. However, when religious people do stupid and dumb things because of religious beliefs, then it's their own damn fault, and you can't tell me to respect their decision for being stupid.

But still, I belive in some kind of ... god. The universe can't be "never ending" and theres gotta be a treshold somewhere..and if that's the border to another universe, then fine. Or another realm. But SOMEWHERE; it has to end, everything else fails to make sense in my human head. My weakness perhaps.

Outside that, where everything eventually ends, there is the inifinite, endless, timeless; the perfect.
Call it god, I call it a consciousness that created things and made them possible. Mathematics, chemistry, biology, everything just feels too well made.

And then the basic question pops up in my head: then, what created God?

Everything might be never ending, just a series of random events. And the world, universe and life itself is objectively seen meaningless, whether a "god" exists or not. If something has created everything, why the hell would that give the creator a reason to give a damn about the individuals instead of the reocurring phenomenon of life, death and birth, etc.

Why would "god" give a damn about anything at all?

And I find bliss in that meaninglessness, that void, that chaos, knowing that everythings just messed up.

It's fine to be confused about creation, since it's a big subject. I personally don't see the point in trying to find an answer to creation, since there's really no practical application for it. I really haven't found anything a purpose for questioning creation or the 'grand scheme of things'. Not my field of interest. I'd rather know what's happening tomorrow, rather than what had happened in the beginning. A Christian friend once asked me 'don't you ever stop to think about how humans were created', to which I replied 'no, but evolution'. He told me I was boring. I agreed. We never talked again.

[RanShi]

If you really think about evolution..it's very, very boring.

Your ancestor, a water-living creature, and his descendants, tried getting up on the shore for centuries..
And yes, the randomly "mutated" few ones who could survive on land became a new species and so on....

You know this little thing called 'gravity'? If you think about it, that's incredibly boring too. A force that's anchoring us to the ground, and not by any higher order or witchcraft? Think about it, that's impossible. It's our souls that ground us to the Earth. But wait a minute. Gravity has evidence supporting it, but the soul thing doesn't. But it sounds more interesting anyway.

Hey, you know that guy L Ron Hubbard? He thought science was boring too, and wrote some fiction up which became a religion. Amazing, eh?

And, it seems we have alot of evidence backing evolution, while it's got alot of holes too.
'
Don't follow it blindly.

The same could be said about religion, where there is no evidence supporting the existence of God. Yet, people follow it blindly. Not every theory is perfect. However, evolution is offering an explanation to how we became to be today, rather than suggesting that some God out there made us already via intelligent design where we had co-existed with dinosaurs at one point, and all the fossil evidence of human existence were eaten by the dinosaurs, and the human race at that point flew out to space and came back after the meteor hit the Earth.

If I don't need god in order to feel complete, even if he exists, then whats wrong with respecting the idea of god (not as portayed in berserk =P) in the different religions, but not depending on deities or expecting to get any help?

Then what's the point of believing in a religion? I've yet to meet a religious person who has placed their belief in a particular religion without wanting some sort of outcome in the end, whether it be going to heaven at the end or whatever. To most atheists, you can't respect God when it doesn't exist. You could only respect people and their beliefs. However, when religious people do stupid and dumb things because of religious beliefs, then it's their own damn fault, and you can't tell me to respect their decision for being stupid.

But still, I belive in some kind of ... god. The universe can't be "never ending" and theres gotta be a treshold somewhere..and if that's the border to another universe, then fine. Or another realm. But SOMEWHERE; it has to end, everything else fails to make sense in my human head. My weakness perhaps.

Outside that, where everything eventually ends, there is the inifinite, endless, timeless; the perfect.
Call it god, I call it a consciousness that created things and made them possible. Mathematics, chemistry, biology, everything just feels too well made.

And then the basic question pops up in my head: then, what created God?

Everything might be never ending, just a series of random events. And the world, universe and life itself is objectively seen meaningless, whether a "god" exists or not. If something has created everything, why the hell would that give the creator a reason to give a damn about the individuals instead of the reocurring phenomenon of life, death and birth, etc.

Why would "god" give a damn about anything at all?

And I find bliss in that meaninglessness, that void, that chaos, knowing that everythings just messed up.

It's fine to be confused about creation, since it's a big subject. I personally don't see the point in trying to find an answer to creation, since there's really no practical application for it. I really haven't found anything a purpose for questioning creation or the 'grand scheme of things'. Not my field of interest. I'd rather know what's happening tomorrow, rather than what had happened in the beginning. A Christian friend once asked me 'don't you ever stop to think about how humans were created', to which I replied 'no, but evolution'. He told me I was boring. I agreed. We never talked again.

Uh, yeah..the first one.

I wan't saying anything, I was just commenting on how extremely "special" evolution makes us feel, that so many species over an insane amount of years have "evolved", gotten wrongly made and etc. in order for an evolution leading to us in the end.

And yeah, it's kinda true. It's more interesting when it's less boring.

Quote 2:
Of course, I'm not a lover or religion, although it might have come out that way.
And about intelligent design, there are alot of more ways regarding the creation of human beings than just evolution and traditional christian BS.

How do we know evolution hasn't been controlled by something?

Quote 3:
I talked about respecting the idea of god in the different religions, and constantly keeping my mind open to those ideas, cause I know I'll never believe in a Christian God or Muslim God, but I'll use them to challenge new ideas, compare to my own etc.

Come on, the evolution kinda went perfectly too, if one believes in it.

But I've gotta admit, me believing in somekind of a higher existance give me that secure kinda feeling, probably why I like the idea.

On the other hand, I love the idea of us being the highest beings, a little bit of reading from Nietzsche's Also Sprach Zarathustra doesn't hurt anyone ^^

And while ur at it, Christians really..they just wanna share their religion and opinions with you. Whatever opinion you share with them, they try to make it look like you're either on your way to be blessed by the lord or sent to hell.

[The Herald]

I like the cyclical theory, though I might have made that one up myself. Personally I like God, and I like evolution too. You should hear my dad on the subject. The important thing is to ask people who don't believe in evolution if they don't believe the earth is round, because the two kinda go hand in hand. I still know old people that believe that the earth is on top of a turtle's shell. And what is at the bottom of the big turtle you ask? Well it's turtles all the way down! I guess Dr. Seuss wasn't crazy.

Damn Yertle.

[Brainpiercing]

I still know old people that believe that the earth is on top of a turtle's shell. And what is at the bottom of the big turtle you ask? Well it's turtles all the way down!

The idiots, of course there are elephants between the earth and the turtle, and there's really only one turtle!!!

[MsNomer]

I still know old people that believe that the earth is on top of a turtle's shell. And what is at the bottom of the big turtle you ask? Well it's turtles all the way down!

The idiots, of course there are elephants between the earth and the turtle, and there's really only one turtle!!!

And flat like a disk, duh.

[Eldo]

And the turtle's a ninja, the the flat earth's like a pizza.

[Rolos]

HAHAHAHAHA!!! I love this comic....

Just thought it could fit in this thread.

PD: this is not an insult toward Islam, just a harmless joke. About that.....




PD2: Ranshi, your position (about life) is basically that of an agnostic, isn't it? My position about is basically the same. If i don't know the reason of my existence, then I will live with that uncertainty rather then inventing an answer to feel better. Just my opinion though.

[Shaka Zulu]

Me likey any form of good satire/parody, but that comic strip is seriously off/dull. Doesnt only lack a punch, but a whole fist.

[Brainpiercing]

And the turtle's a ninja, the the flat earth's like a pizza.

I am shocked at your lack of education. How could Dr. Eldo ever write something so ignorant???

[Gaiseric]

I wan't saying anything, I was just commenting on how extremely "special" evolution makes us feel, that so many species over an insane amount of years have "evolved", gotten wrongly made and etc. in order for an evolution leading to us in the end.

Its awfully arrogant to assume that 'we' are the ultimate goal of evolution.

[Brainpiercing]

I wan't saying anything, I was just commenting on how extremely "special" evolution makes us feel, that so many species over an insane amount of years have "evolved", gotten wrongly made and etc. in order for an evolution leading to us in the end.

Its awfully arrogant to assume that 'we' are the ultimate goal of evolution.

And he's wrong, too. Everyone knows the cockroach is the pinnacle of evolution....

[psi29a]

I wan't saying anything, I was just commenting on how extremely "special" evolution makes us feel, that so many species over an insane amount of years have "evolved", gotten wrongly made and etc. in order for an evolution leading to us in the end.

Its awfully arrogant to assume that 'we' are the ultimate goal of evolution.

And he's wrong, too. Everyone knows the cockroach is the pinnacle of evolution....

It is only a process. Nothing special about it, more importantly nothing special about us either. It takes a pretty big ego to assume that 'we' are special.

[Eldo]

Well, humans are made in God's image, apparently...

[RanShi]

Ok, now I just feel stupid.

Well, it's kinda obvious I've been influenced a bit too much by my religious friends -.-

Sometimes I kinda get carried away and forget basic stuff, and u guys are right, we're not that special.

PD2: Ranshi, your position (about life) is basically that of an agnostic, isn't it? My position about is basically the same. If i don't know the reason of my existence, then I will live with that uncertainty rather then inventing an answer to feel better. Just my opinion though.

Well then, we have some stuff in common I guess.

I'm basically the same; but I like to challenge myself. Get these crazy ideas that I haven't had before, get inspired by illogical arguments etc. and by doing that I challenge that agnosticism of mine. But I've come to realize it's not cause I want to feel better and come up with excuses. I think it's cause I know I'll always go back to the "agnostic" way of thinking, and I'll see it all from another perspective, perhaps with more knowledge and determination.

Still, I can't help it, I cling on to the idea that the universe can't be endless and there's a higher existence somewhere, and at the same time I have that love-hate relationship when it comes to seeing the universe and metaphysics as something we'll never completely understand, and I kinda love that chaotic state of mind. And when I have one of those days, I read a little from "Also Sprach Zarathustra". Nietzsche is a misunderstood walrus.

Well, humans are made in God's image, apparently...

Stop bullying me

[Facade19]

Personally, I view evolution just as another metaphysics.
I was not here when the Earth came to be and I will not be here when the Earth will end.
Though personally I think the world I know will come to an end the day I die.
Regardless of whether I believe in evolution or not, at the end of the day what evolution is for me is a belief system.
You can say facts this, facts that, but facts are still inventions of human agreement.
Now I know I know you will say gravity this and gravity that and that is a fact.
Or when a bullet hits you and you do not wear any sort of armor, you will most likely bleed.
Sure that works out because we witness and experience these two phenomenona, but even the concept of gravity as we claim to know it is being challenged.
Science, to me, is just another account of life like religion or material dialectism is.
Does science make life easier? Sure. But then again so does religion for millions of people.
Whether the universe it out there or not, whether there is a G-d or not, what matters is that I am alive and I will create my narrative for being.
Though material reality shaped my conscience, it is not the only power that did so. Are there a priories? Maybe...

[psi29a]

Personally, I view evolution just as another metaphysics.
I was not here when the Earth came to be and I will not be here when the Earth will end.
Though personally I think the world I know will come to an end the day I die.
Regardless of whether I believe in evolution or not, at the end of the day what evolution is for me is a belief system.

Metaphysics is quite different than physics, evolution is a process that exists in the framework of physics not, metaphysics. Please don't confuse the meaning of the words.

If you have to believe, then it isn't science.

Science makes no claim to make anyone's life easier, never has, never will.

Science is about learning and gathering knowledge, describing and modeling the world. Which is an iterative process, meant to evolve our understanding of the world. All of this however is done through rational, critical thinking, and natural causes. Once you introduce the supernatural, you totally destroy the intent of Science.

You can never prove something true, but only that it is false.

Supernatural presumes something is true.

You can't mix the two.

For more...

Falsifiability (or refutability or testability) is the logical possibility that an assertion can be shown false by an observation or a physical experiment. That something is "falsifiable" does not mean it is false; rather, it means that it is capable of being disproved under hypothetical circumstances. Falsifiability is an important concept in science and the philosophy of science.

Some philosophers and scientists, most notably Karl Popper, have asserted that a hypothesis, proposition or theory is scientific only if it is falsifiable.

For example, "all men are mortal" is unfalsifiable, since no amount of observation could ever demonstrate its falsehood. "All men are immortal," by contrast, is falsifiable, by the presentation of just one dead man.

Not all statements that are falsifiable in principle are so in practice. For example, "it will be raining here in one million years" is theoretically falsifiable, but not practically.

[Facade19]

Personally, I view evolution just as another metaphysics.
I was not here when the Earth came to be and I will not be here when the Earth will end.
Though personally I think the world I know will come to an end the day I die.
Regardless of whether I believe in evolution or not, at the end of the day what evolution is for me is a belief system.

Metaphysics is quite different than physics, evolution is a process that exists in the framework of physics not, metaphysics. Please don't confuse the meaning of the words.

If you have to believe, then it isn't science.

psi I am not confusing the two (physics and metaphysics). Science to me is a metaphysic which aims to give an account of life based on discoveries and knowledge, which in my view are just re-descriptions of ideas with a new set of vocabularies. The emphasis is on proving/disproving and the very ideas that knowledge can be proven, disproven suggests that there are things true and things which are not. I do not think that there is an objective truth out there, nor that there are laws of physics that guide the universe, but that this account is nothing but a meta-narrative. ---Signed Francis Lyotard

[Shaka Zulu]

Who are you trying to impress with your rambling? No offense, but little of the "sharing" of your idea of these confused notions make any sense. You are misusing the word metaphysics in quite horrible way, it doesnt make sense just because you throw out the word metaphysics. Here's a definiton of the word for you:


1. (used with a sing. verb) Philosophy. The branch of philosophy that examines the nature of reality, including the relationship between mind and matter, substance and attribute, fact and value.
2. (used with a pl. verb) The theoretical or first principles of a particular discipline: the metaphysics of law.
3. (used with a sing. verb) A priori speculation upon questions that are unanswerable to scientific observation, analysis, or experiment.
4. (used with a sing. verb) Excessively subtle or recondite reasoning.


Meta-Physics is the investigation of that which really exists. It uses the tools of rational thought and argument to come to its conclusions. It may suggest that reality lies beyond the reach of human experience; or on the other hand it may contend that reality exists solely within the objects of human experience.


Doesnt matter you say science to you is metaphysicism, science or physics has ZERO to do with metaphysicism. Which is more or less elaborate version of philospophy.

I'm sure you think you sound profound with your rambling, but its neither cute nor worth shit (however you meta-narrative it), to say metaphycism or objective truth and think you are saying anything worth a damn.

[Brainpiercing]

I'm sure you think you sound profound with your rambling, but its neither cute nor worth shit (however you meta-narrative it), to say metaphycism or objective truth and think you are saying anything worth a damn.

Seconded. If anything, your strange reasonings show a severe lack of understanding of the scientific process.

[psi29a]

Thank you facade19...

Having Shaka Zulu and Brainpiercing agree brings tears to my eyes.

[The Prince]

Thank you facade19...

Having Shaka Zulu and Brainpiercing agree brings tears to my eyes.

Damn...What a bunch of pricks you guys are!


[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Facade19]

Thank you facade19...

Having Shaka Zulu and Brainpiercing agree brings tears to my eyes.

Sure thing.
And by the way guys, please look at who signed that piece.
Please look carefully maybe you catch the sarcasm I intended.
Hint: The Sokal Scandal
Nevermind. I suck at sarcasm...

[Brainpiercing]

Thank you facade19...

Having Shaka Zulu and Brainpiercing agree brings tears to my eyes.

I'll disagree with him again when he says something stupid. I just have too much of a life myself to actually hate people on the internet. (There's one exception, but not on this board.)

And Facade: Sarcasm has to be really obvious to work on the internet, which defies the purpose of sarcasm altogether. So, duh....

But since you've been saying the same kind of things all the time, we obviously couldn't know that you had suddenly changed your mind.

[Facade19]

I thought it would be funny if I played around in this thread.
Since the title stated that 48% of Americans reject evolution I just thought I goof around a bit, because it is goofy rejecting evolution.
But I indeed suck at being sarcastic.