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[thepeaguy]

How did I get into Berserk, you ask? Let's see...

While I was on amazon.com for some Full Metal Alchemist dvds to purchase, I also wanted to try out other anime series which are different from the norm of Japanese animation. After reading reviews from there, one of the reviewers recommendations was an anime called Berserk, so I immediately checked out the series to see what the fuss was about.

The anime volumes each had an interesting synopsis, as well as 5 star ratings from random buyers, preaching how great and diverse the show is, etc. After giving it some thought, I bought a couple of dvd volumes. That was 3 years ago.

The animation was sub-par to what I would expect from anime series, but how the series explored the best and worst of human nature in a medieval fantasy setting through the life of Guts fascinated me.

Last year, I decided to try out manga comics for a change. My obvious choice was Berserk since I didn't finish collecting the entire anime series. And besides, the manga continues from where the anime ended, so it was the better investment.

Here's a photo of my current collection - I have volumes from 1-31:

http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr11 ... 124554.jpg

[tsubaimomo]

Aah... the godly rays of light are most befitting such a collection.

You know what I'm wondering, will Dark Horse release the 20th anniversary extras with volume 34 when they get to it? Since it will probably be a year or 2 off...

[hbi2k]

Well, considering Vol. 33 is coming out in January, it probably won't be THAT far off.

God, the American release is almost caught up, how depressing.

[Aetherfukz]

January? I have volume 33 at my shelf for about 2 month now. Good to know that for once stuff comes out earlier in europe (at least germany) than in the US

[Rolos]

You lucky bastards!
I only have the first 24 volumes....

Why does importing stuff have to be so fucking expensive?

[angthas3]

Hey,
i'm a noob and i have a question. I want to bypass the time for waiting for new chapters. That's why i wanted to ask for similar mangas to berserk.
They need not to be exactly like Berserk but with similar story to guts and mainly a good drawing. I would like to add that i already searched the internet und got suggestions like for example Gantz?????. I only saw the anime but i think i cannot compare these two. I'm not betraying Berserk!
Greetings angsthas3

[Rolos]

Try BLAME!, Blade of the Immortal, Zetman, Vinland Saga, Vagabond, Shamo and Parasyte.
If you are into manwhas, then I would recommend Shin Angyo Onshi and Island.
As for Occidental stuff, some of the works of Alan Moore (Watchmen, V for vendetta, From Hell, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, The Killing Joke), some of the first issues of Hellblazer and Arkham Asylum.
They all have a vague Berserk-like feeling about them, be sure to check them out.

[angthas3]

I'm currently reading Vinland Saga. It is not that bad but it is in some way drawed like a comic. Not as realistic as Berserk. Whereas Zetman is modern stuff
I heard that Claymore is comparable to Berserk but i only watched the anime, so i do not really know
I also saw some episodes of Blade of the immortal and i think it is somekind of a naruto style.
Greetings

[Starnum]

Claymore is cool, but it's nowhere near as good as Berserk. Also Blade of the Immortal is nothing like Naruto.

[Rolos]

Dude, you can't judge Blade of the Immortal for its animated version. That anime is practically the Standard-boy for Adaptation Decay.
The manga is nothing like it, the fights are on a whole different level, the dialogue is considerably less retarded and the story-telling is just pure genius.
And yes, Claymore is awesome as long as you like female leads. I don't. Can't empathize with them.

If you really want something berserk-like, try this: http://www.onemanga.com/Shin_Angyo_Onshi/0/

[Starnum]

Yes, this is a good point. Definitely do not judge Blade of the Immortal by it's anime counterpart. The manga is WAY better.

[Grahf]

The females from Claymore really can't be called as such. I've actually read quite a bit of things with female leads and find that there is a lot of pointless monologue involved. Claymore has and continues to stray away from that, it plays more into the primal side. I highly suggest Claymore for the flashback and the revenge devices. Though I don't think you'll have much by the way of deep character development. Though the ending to the anime was god awful I heard a rumor about another series or ova.

Blade of the Immortal I've only seen 2 episodes of it and I didn't like it at all. I've fallen off with the manga but I must say that I liked how it was shaping up. I think from what I read up to that there was a lot of "berserk" in Blade of the Immortal. Perhaps I should catch up with that....

[Istvan]

Shin Angyo Onshi is definately a good choice (and it has the added bonus of being finished, so no wait time) and I would also recomend Ubel Blatt.

[Rolos]

Is Ubel Blatt the manga about that black-sword wielding miniature elf half-breed with superpowers? You know, the one I hear about all the time but still can't tell what's so great about? Isn't it just another shonen manga, plus sex and gore?

PS: I may have read a different manga believing it was Ubel Blat. Those questions are not rhetorical.

[Starnum]

If it has graphic content like sex and gore, doesn't that disqualify it from being a Shonen and make it a Seinen? The target audience for Shonen manga is teenage boys. Seinen is for adult men, and generally contains graphic scenes of sex and violence. Berserk is Seinen, but if you took away all the graphic material, it'd basically be a Shonen manga.

And before anyone says something silly about the quality of the material like, "How dare you compare Berserk to Shonen trash like Naruto." (BTW, reading one category over the other doesn't make you any better or worse, and I think it's stupid when people act as if it does.) Just know that the quality of the work has nothing to do with how it's categorized. In fact I read that Miura originally intended for Berserk to be a Shonen, but it turned out to be Seinen because of how graphic it was. Not sure if it's true though, but I wouldn't be surprised. Seinen is intended for a more mature audience, that's really about the only difference between the two categories, that I know of. Speaking of quality, the majority of Seinen that I've seen out there is just mindless sex and violence anyway. I enjoy the category a lot, but it's harder than one might think to find a good quality story. Though the same could be said for the other categories as well.

[Grahf]

preach on brother preach on.

[Rolos]

If it has graphic content like sex and gore, doesn't that disqualify it from being a Shonen and make it a Seinen? The target audience for Shonen manga is teenage boys. Seinen is for adult men, and generally contains graphic scenes of sex and violence. Berserk is Seinen, but if you took away all the graphic material, it'd basically be a Shonen manga.

And before anyone says something silly about the quality of the material like, "How dare you compare Berserk to Shonen trash like Naruto." (BTW, reading one category over the other doesn't make you any better or worse, and I think it's stupid when people act as if it does.) Just know that the quality of the work has nothing to do with how it's categorized. In fact I read that Miura originally intended for Berserk to be a Shonen, but it turned out to be Seinen because of how graphic it was. Not sure if it's true though, but I wouldn't be surprised. Seinen is intended for a more mature audience, that's really about the only difference between the two categories, that I know of. Speaking of quality, the majority of Seinen that I've seen out there is just mindless sex and violence anyway. I enjoy the category a lot, but it's harder than one might think to find a good quality story. Though the same could be said for the other categories as well.

I'll have to disagree with you on this one.
It's not just about the sex and violence (though it does have a great impact on how it is categorized), it's about the maturity of the worldview that permeates the story.
Stuff intended for kids is usually simple, idealized and clean-cut. Bad guys treat people badly, and get what they deserve. Their motivations can be a little more complex than "do evil", but they are always portrayed as wrong.
Adult works, on the other hand, are all about ambiguity, complexity and gestaltic characterization (which means the characters are more than just a sum of attributes, they are, as far as fiction can go, real persons). The setting tends to be more realistic, and each individual character's motivations are usually far more deep-rooted than "doing what they are supposed to do". "Bad" characters can, and will, win at the end if the plot allows them to.
The story also tends to be more self-conscious and sophisticated, with far more inter-textuality and characters noticing a cliché the moment they see it.

What differentiates us from kids is not our willingness to gut or have sex with each other, it's our more defined (and hopefully informed) outlook on life.

There are many examples of works clearly intended for adults that have no violence or sex whatsoever, like the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (the books, not the movie), which didn't make a single reference to the existence of sexual intercourse until the fourth book, and yet is incredibly mature in it's outlook of an indifferent universe, in which civilizations rise and fall, people live and die, intra-galactic bypasses are built and destroyed, and no one gives a damn, living happily and carelessly.
Strip away all the gore and sex from Berserk and you'll still have a very adult work in your hands, with complex characters and a very, very grim view of medieval life in general. Also, a plot that deals with charisma and its effects on people, mythology and its roots in the collective unconscious, the search for meaning for one's own life and a shitload of other stuff a 12 year old couldn't even comprehend, much less appreciate.

[Starnum]

Just as I said, intended for mature audiences. This implies quite a few things, meaning it's going to have more mature themes, a more realistic world view, and more complex characters and interactions that adults can relate to. You are correct in what you said, and I don't disagree with any of that. I edited my post several times, and still couldn't convey my point exactly as I wanted to. So let me give it another shot. I know that not all seinen is just sex and violence, but it's still very common place within the category. Just because seinen manga has more mature and complex stories and characters, does not mean this is always the case. For every quality seinen you can name, I can find another that's nothing more than an expression of graphic material. Just take hentai for example, technically a type of seinen, as it's generally intended for young men. So to say "a shonen, except with sex and gore" would be an incorrect statement, as those kind of things aren't intended for children. Also, the way you said it, it comes off as sounding derogatory, or maybe it was just me. However, I've heard people use the term that way before, and it bothers me. As I said, one is no better than the other. Each work should be compared individually based on its own merits. Some of the shonen manga out there is of very high quality, with amazing stories. To think that it's all simple and childish is the same as thinking all seinen is nothing more than shallow graphic material. It doesn't have to be "mature" to be good. There are just as many shitty seinen manga out there as there are shonen, and vice versa. Shonen is the most popular manga category for a reason, there's a lot of good stuff to be found among the rest of the dregs. This can be said for both categories. Berserk may not be shonen without the graphic material, but there are some shonen qualities about it, such as the action theme. Guts zipping around in the Berserker Armor, and using a giant sword to fight monsters, you can't say that's not at least a little shonen like. Still, if you add graphic scenes of sex and violence to an otherwise shonen-esque story, then I can't see how the target audience could be children/minors, as those are mature themes meant for adults. The only real distinction between the two categories is the intended audience. Therefore, it would no longer be shonen, and would thusly be categorized as seinen, case in point.

Also, the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy isn't a manga, so it's not really a very good example of a category which pertains specifically to manga. Unless of course they made a manga version I don't know about. It's not manga unless it's made in Japan.

[Rolos]

I was talking about the difference between works intended for mature and immature audiences in general, not just manga, that's why I chose The Hitchhiker's Guide.
And of course there are far more crappy adult works, they are more complex, and thus are a lot harder to pull off successfully. The amount of well-made fiction for kids is proportionally greater, but the number of works intended for kids that can also appeal to mature audiences is minuscule, which is why I almost always assume everything I come across that was clearly intended for children probably won't entertain me.
Naruto is probably bliss itself for a 12 year old, and it's probably very well made for shonen standards, but I fucking hate it. With a few exceptions, I loathe stuff intended for kids. I don't like simplistic settings and idealized worldviews, much less one-dimensional or inmature characters, I can't relate to them.
And when I say a work of fiction I stumbled upon was like shonen plus sex and violence, I mean exactly that, a work in which everything seems intended for kids, except for the sex and gore.

PS: The questions about Ubel Blatt still stand.
PSS: I just watched Malcolm in the Middle (which I assume is intended for kids, but still like), and have a question: Where does the anime that briefly appears in the -opening- comes from? it looks awesome!

[Starnum]

Well those are your tastes, and that's fine. I understand what you're saying. Personally I like a lot of shonen manga, but that's me. I also enjoy seinen, and most of my favorites are seinen. I have a wide variety of tastes, you might say. Not just with manga, but a lot of things. Anyway, as for what you were saying about something seeming like shonen but with sex and gore, I see what you saying, now that you put it that way. That reminds, while we were talking about this yesterday, I was looking on OneManga, and they have Claymore listed as shonen. Heh, is that right? I guess it's kind of like a shonen but with gore. I would have thought it'd be a seinen. *shrugs*

Oh, and I've always wondered what anime that is in the opening to Malcom in the Middle as well, but I don't know. The guy it shows kind of looks like Woodchuck from Lodoss War though, but I don't think that's it.

[Istvan]

As far as Ubel Blatt goes, I wouldn't say that it fits the description of "a work in which everything seems intended for kids, except for the sex and gore." I don't guarentee you'll like it, of course, and it is in no way the equal of Berserk (what is?) but even without the sex and violence I don't think it would be shounen. The first couple of chapters (chapter one was devided into chunks) seems simplistic with just a young hero fighting against a group of blatently evil people, but by the end of the introduction to the real story things have become far more complex and morally difficult. I'm not too sure how much to say, but I would suggest you check it out if you have some free time.

[Grahf]

I was looking on OneManga, and they have Claymore listed as shonen. Heh, is that right? I guess it's kind of like a shonen but with gore. I would have thought it'd be a seinen. *shrugs*

Classification depends also on the magazine it comes out in, no? Even if its a little mature for a target audience magazines tend to run it either way.

[schism]

Hi there.

Well, I'll keep this short.

I'm schism. (Yup, it's a tool reference if anyone cares to know!)

Having been a fan for many years I stumbled upon this website just recently, and damn it was I pleasantly surprised, so after a couple of days lurking around I hit the register-button and here I am.


Have a nice day.

/schism from Sweden.

[Starnum]

Welcome to EG Schism, excellent first post.

[Maynard]

I'm schism. (Yup, it's a tool reference if anyone cares to know!)

:V ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------>

welcome