Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Post by **LordMune** » Mon May 08, 2006 4:29 pm

I don't know whether this has been posted previously, can't be bothered to check.

Wikipedia on Buddhism wrote:Around 100 AD, the Kushan emperor Kanishka convened the fourth Buddhist council and is usually associated with the formal rise of Mahayana Buddhism.

[...]

From that point on, and in the space of a few centuries, Mahayana was to flourish and spread in the East from India to South-East Asia, and towards the north to Central Asia, China, Korea, and finally to Japan in 538 CE.

Post by **Buzkashi** » Sat May 27, 2006 5:48 am

I was watching a documentary on Ivan the Terrible. And I noticed he was very similar to the Priest Apostle (I cant believe I cant remember his name). From the second eclipse. They were both pious and justified their tortures on the basis that it was for God. They both also banged their heads on the ground as a form of worship. And they both were fucking weird.

Post by **Quest** » Sat May 27, 2006 7:36 am

what was the title of the documentary?
i want to find it.

Post by **Buzkashi** » Sat May 27, 2006 4:21 pm

It was a 20 minute one. To be honest a friend linked it to me from an internet porn site.

If you still want it I'll PM it too you.

Post by **Baerzerker** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:53 pm

I did a little research in norse mythology and this is what I found out; hope it fits in this thread:

With Berserk, Miura most likely refers to the old-norse word Baerzerker, which either means "Bearshirt" or "without-shirt", since Berzerkers were well known for wearing Bear- or Wolfskins in Battle (instead of armor) to become as strong as those animals. Somesay, that Berzerkers ate special mushrooms or drank potions to reduce their Feeling for Pain to a minimum.

Anyways, they were famous for their wildness and for charging any enemy without hesitation..... which is one of Gatts´s "bad habits"

The name "Gatts", as far as I understood the Miura Interview, does not relate to "Gottfried von Berlichingen", whose Nickname was Goetz and who had a fake metal arm.... plus, Goetz had lost his right arm and lived around 1500. But a funny coincidence!

But one thing that troubles me is this:
There is the Country called "Midland", but in norse mythology, the world of men was called Midgard. May be a another coincidence, but later on they´re looking for Elfheim, which is, as someone posted in here before, the world Alfheim in the high branches of Yggdrasil.
Plus, they´re looking for this Elfheim, because Puck came from there...Gatts´s little friend. But a Puck is a House-spirit in norse and german mythology. If you treat him well, he will help you, bring you prosperity and so on....if treated bad, the Puck of your hosue will cause your ruin.
In my opinion, it all fits a bit too well for just a funny coincidence.

By the way, did someone realize, that Pippin, the big guy at the Hawks has the same name as the father of Charles the Great, who ruled around 800 AD and defeated the Saxons?

And the fairy, that like "draws" the Hawks into this parallel world, while Gatts and the other leaders rescue Griffith...she somehow reminds me of an Irish Bean Sidhe or maybe Banshee. Anyone have any clues on this little creature?

(I hope my english wasn´t too bad

)

Post by **panasonic** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:46 pm

nice connection. most stories nowadays are based on old legends, so it is highly probable that miura may have read a bit on those subjects and kinda blended some of its elements into his works

Post by **xue_sheng** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:49 pm

the name of Charles the great ( Charlemagne ) is Pepin ( in french at least)

Post by **Hyuri** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:09 am

Devil_Dante wrote:The dog in guts looks like an "dobberman" (probably the wrong word in english). It's a type of dog thats really cute when it's young, but as it grows older, their skull is too small for their brain (thats not good)--> so they might get berserk anytime at anybody... nothing symbolic here but I thought I might contribute

Actually the spirit which possesses Guts and drives him into a berserker rage is more likely to be a wolf.
One of the theories about Berserks was that they induced themselves into a spiritual possession to harness the power of an animal during combat, the 2 most common animals for this ritual possession are a Bear or a Wolf.
Out of 2, the one which mostly resembles the spirit which haunts and sometimes takes over Guts is that of a wolf.

Most of you probably already knew this, just wanted to contribute...

Post by **MrFelony** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:31 am

thanks for your contributions

. stick around and post, we appreciate a lively debate or intelligent input here and there

Post by **Sortep** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:57 am

Buzkashi wrote:I was watching a documentary on Ivan the Terrible. And I noticed he was very similar to the Priest Apostle (I cant believe I cant remember his name). From the second eclipse. They were both pious and justified their tortures on the basis that it was for God. They both also banged their heads on the ground as a form of worship. And they both were fucking weird.

i have long been under the suspiscion that muira bases alot of characters from history (which is good) after reading the prototype... that was very clear in that and probably was the start... so far i'm trying to find the slug count, and a parallel.. anyone comes up with anything let me know

Post by **StriderSkorpion** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:05 am

Well, I don't know if there's a real connection, but I thought I saw hints of influence from the Hellraiser series. God Hand seems very much to resemble Cenobites in that they come to those who seek them and serve similar purposes. Ubik and Conrad seem to mirror Butterball, especially Ubik. Conrad, IMO, also seems to ring of Chatterer. Void features an exposed brain, eyes sewn shut, and lips peeled back which is reminiscent of the masochistic renderings of the Cenobites. By that I mean Cenobites look self-mutilated in very similar manner (i.e. skin peeled back by hooks and most prominent, the pins in Pinhead's head). Probably coincidental, especially if Miura never intended to reference it, there are four Cenobites in first movie and there are four God Hand members before Femto joins. The Behelit/Beherit seems analogous to the Lament Configuration, the puzzle box used to summon the Cenobites to Earth. Probably a stretch, but the God of the Abyss could be equated to Leviathan from Hellraiser who is the "god" of the Cenobites' Hell/Abyss. There are possibly other simiilarities that I've either overlook or did notice but forgot. From reading the prototype and the finished product, it seems that it would be a more recent influence (if at all) since God Hand been fleshed out for the prototype. Being a big fan of horror movies, I could just be picking up on influences not really there, but are definitely coincidental in that case..

Post by **Jon Maitreya** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:21 pm

I believe Miura is a known Hellraiser fan, so your connections may indeed all be accurate.

I haven't really watche dany of the movies though, but the similarities you mentioned make it likely it was at-least a partial influence. Especially on the appearances of the God-hand.

Post by **Starnum** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:05 pm

Yeah, I agree. I think there may be some mild Hellraiser influences.

Post by **mithuntnt** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:10 pm

Chapter 272 has a lot of inspiration from Hinduism ..
pg 13

kshatriya: is the warrior class. { there are 4 classes in ancient hinduism .. brahmins(teacher), kshatriya(fighter/kings), bussinessman, and shudra (rest) .. }
durga: Durga is the goddess of power..
vayu: is the god of wind ..
kundalini: kundalini are kind of like pressure point on the spine. They contains life energy which can be vitalized with yogic pranayamans(exercies) ..

all the kushan army elements are some kind of undeads or some monster in hindu mythology ..

Except for ganiskha who turned budhist. Though kaniskha was a warrior king, later he turned buddhist and led an age of cultural excelence.

Maybe some thing similar will happen to ganishka ..

Post by **distortedrealms** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:08 am

First Post, and really I just wanted to add this griffith symbolism with a certain famous Russian general. Here's an excerpt:

Mikhail Dmitrievich Skobelev was a charismatic Russian general famous for his conquest of Central Asia and heroism during the Russo-Turkish War of 1877-78.
Dressed with care in his "white uniform" and mounted on his "white horse", and always in the "thickest of the fray", he was known and adored by his soldiers as the "White General."

Now that is close, no?

Cheers

Post by **Sortep** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:36 am

Starnum wrote:Yeah, I agree. I think there may be some mild Hellraiser influences.

muira openly admits to being a hellraiser fan

Post by **Arngrim** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:51 am

Good job guys (some more accurate than others, but nonetheless great notice of symbolism/influences)

I can't say I have anything more than what's been stated, yet I have done a RATHER lengthy ("speculation but not really") compilation known as the "influences from Berserk" (what it had an impact on) If you guys would like me to start a thread on it, I will.

Post by **Femto** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:52 am

Arngrim wrote:If you guys would like me to start a thread on it, I will.

Is that why you've been spamming the hell out of this place?

Post by **Arngrim** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:53 am

Good job guys (some more accurate than others, but nonetheless great notice of symbolism/influences)

to Sortep, I wouldn't say Miura or Berserk is too "hellraising" per say, he's been influenced by everything from Highlander to Blade Runner. The most clear (and only influence imo) is the use of God Hand's design and the "horror" of a behelit+apostles, not the actual characters and personalities etc.

I can't say I have anything more than what's been stated, yet I have done a RATHER lengthy ("speculation but not really") compilation known as the "influences from Berserk" (what it had an impact on) If you guys would like me to start a thread on it, I will.

Post by **MrFelony** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:54 am

lol no edit button

Post by **Arngrim** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:54 am

Femto wrote:
Arngrim wrote:If you guys would like me to start a thread on it, I will.
Is that why you've been spamming the hell out of this place?

NO U

edit: To the above, yes, I know the existence of edit, use it a lot as you can see, was editing but didn't know I had two posts opened in the same topic

I was just going to delete it but there is no feature, oh well.

Post by **Gaiseric** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:20 am

Not sure if this belongs here or not, but after the T2 thread I decided to watch Conan the Barbarian and I noticed a few similarities between it and Berserk. From the part where hes having sex with a chick who turns into a demon, to the snake baron dude who turns into a snake, to the strange cultist orgies with human soup. Also, the openings both show a sword being forged. I would like to get a hold of the Conan comics, because I am sure theres a lot more in there.

Post by **thorgrim29** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:16 am

Hey all, new here.
The part about pippin is kind of funny because the french kings surname was "the breif", ("le bref" in french), because he was really small.
Other connections...obviously the Vatican, the multiple references to Celtic mythology (the way magic works, monsters and all). Also (though its a long shot), maybe deep sarcasm about the white hawk (could be the usa, with their emblem bird being a white headed hawk of some kind) acquiering a kingdom while pretexting he is protecting the world against the evil orientals.

Post by **Aeriel** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:21 pm

Please don't beat me with a stick if here is not the place to post something like this, but it's past midnight here, I'm dead tired from studying, I don't have time/strenght to search through threads, and I'm hooked on Berserk

Anyway, since this thread has gone from symbolism to just plain influences, I have to mention some: H.R. Giger and M.C. Echer. The first is best known as the creator of Alien (the design of the monster, not director of movie

), and if you look at any ten of his paintings you'll notice great similarities between Miura's and Giger's monsters.
As for Escher, remember in the first few volumes that weird dimension where Gutts was trasported when Duke summoned God-Hand? Stairs and stuff? Escher.

Post by **Starnum** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:34 am

Yeah, I've heard those influences mentioned before. Well, the Geiger one anyway. I heard a theory that Miura may have gotten the idea for Schierke's character from the myths about selkies, but I'm still not sure about that one, heh.