Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby Istvan » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:18 pm

War Machine wrote:
Istvan wrote:
Rolos wrote:P.S.S. We could do a berserk-themed programming contest or something.


Sure. First person to create a program (any language) which can replicate the thought processes, predictive ability, and manipulative power of the Idea of Evil will win the Best Evil Overlord of the Year award. How's that?

The Idea of Evil was scrapped from the manga, how many times do I have to say it? :-P


Removed because it revealed too much, too early, is a very different thing from "scrapped."
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby Rolos » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:36 pm

[/laconic] You're thinking of a Laplace's demon program, not the idea of evil. Not the same. Idea of evil is non-canon, excluded from volumes. Contradicted Warmachine for no reason up there, wanted to be contrary.[/]
One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings.
~Diogenes of Sinope
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby TheParagon » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:14 pm

i just saw a documentary about the spannish inquisition (The.Most.Evil.Men.in.History-Torquemada) and saw this statue in it which made me think of godhand Conrad (i have no idea what the statue is named or if its famous or not): Image


Image
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby Istvan » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:19 am

That's quite the resemblance all right. And if it's from the Spannish Inquisition it might even be something Miura saw while he was doing his research. Probably not, but who knows?
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby brunoafh » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:19 pm

Quite striking indeed. Given Miura's range of influences, I'd say it's very much in the realm of possibility that Conrad's design may have been drawn from that.
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby eldur » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:00 pm

In the Silmarillion, the book where you can learn all about the world and ancient story of the Lord of the Rings, I read a long time ago the story of the different incarnations of Sauron. After the creation of the rings of power (wich remind me of behelits), Sauron went to the human Empire of Numenor, a large island in the sea. There, Sauron became a venerated figure, creating something lika a dark religion around him and convincing Numenoreans to invade the real Gods continent. The story ends when the Gods destroy Numenor with an enormous Tsunami...

Here's the drawing of that Sauron's incarnation, Annatar, made in 2008 (probably inspired in Griffith)...
Image


EDITED!!
This drawing comes from a probably erased scene (even at te extended edition, but maybe a fake) on Peter Jackson's LOTR, where at the gates of Mordor Aragorn fights against this Sauron incarnation...

Image
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby War Machine » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:35 pm

Who made that drawing?
"Clearly my escape had not been anticipated, or my benevolent master would not have expended such efforts to prevent me from going. And if my departure displeased him, then that was a victory, however small, for me." - Raziel
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby eldur » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:43 am

I don't know, the page from where I got it no longer exists. But there's a name at the bottom...

It seems to me that the Sauron-Annatar duality has a powerful connection with Femto-Griffith.
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby Texanian » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:39 am

Thinking of Berserk connection a few years ago... i found these paintings in one art book:

Pieter Bruegel (The Tower of Babel):
Image

Cornelisz Anthonisz (La Destruction de la Tour de Babel)
Image

Spoiler:
Image

I suggested: it could be intresting theory ,that Miura took The Tower of Babel as idea for Tower of Retribution.

Also ...here is the site i found after some G.research (there are lots of examples,painted by diffirent Artists ,most of them remind Tower of Retribution as well..)
http://www.babelstone.co.uk/Blog/2008/1 ... babel.html
(on most paintings the Top of the Tower looks a little destroyed and looks like a hand...somehow.)

I found that Rolos have mentioned The Tower of Babel before...Well..lets just say its some additional info to the point.
"Then you will come to think of things in a wide sense, and taking the Void as the Way, you will thee the Way as Void.In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence,spirit is nothingness."- M.M (TBO5R)
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby eldur » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:56 am

I've found a new meaning for the sacrifice brand...

There's an ancient origyn for the roman numbers, which was used by people before the Roman Empire. They used straight lines to write the different numbers, and to simplify larger numbers they created an easy way to combine the lines in order to obtain other symbols to represent them.

1: I
5: V or Λ
10: X
50: ᗐ or the same upside down. It's like V with an additional stick
100: Ж (more straight, a cross and a stick altogether).

For 500 and 1000 they used a "box", in the shape of a diamond -in the later roman numbers became a circle-, surrounding another lines...
1000 could be written like this...⊗ or ⊕ (imagine the circles being diamond-shaped , something like this <+> combined.
And 500 could be the same symbol halved ... like Ð or +>, or it could be the same box with a lone stick inside... <I>

And let's go back to the brand...

Get the symbols to write the number 666... It can be something like this... <I>,Ж,ᗐ,X,V,I (classical roman number DCLXVI)

You can combine them and get this....
Image
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby caiooa » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:06 pm

i have read numerous times people making connections bettwen berserk and macbeth, but it normaly was about similarities bettwen Griffith and lord Macbeth himself. But in the last time i re-read the manga (i end up doing it 1-2x per year, when new chaps are released =/) guts's birth caught my atention . It was almost like Macduff, "a man that was'nt of woman born ". The other thing that caught my atention was the similarities bettwen the "family" of gambino/shizu/guts and guts/caska/"demon baby" now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffith_(surname)
Griffith is a surname of Welsh origin which derives from the given name Gruffudd. The prefix Griff (originally Gruff) may mean "strong grip" and the suffix, udd, means "chief"/"lord".
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby Trikucian » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:25 pm

I like the concept that Berserk is like Macbeth. I've always thought that Berserk had Shakespearian elements to it.

I'm convinced that Berserk is a fantasy version of early Renaissance Europe:

Tudor = England (duh, just look at the name)
Midlands = France
Ys = Portugal
The country Caska is from = Spain
The country that Farnese and Serpico are from (can't remember the name) = Italy (again, duh, with the Papacy and all)
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby Starnum » Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:38 am

You mean Vritanis? That's a city, not a country, and I'm pretty sure that it's a part of Midland (BTW, there's no "S" on the end of Midland). Also, I was under the impression that Casca was also from Midland. I don't remember them ever saying she was from another country. >.>
Berserk Wiki wrote:She (Casca) was born and raised in a poor mountainous farming village along an unspecified border between two warring nations (possibly Midland and Tudor or Midland and the Kushan Empire).
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby Trikucian » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:23 am

Okay probably Midland and the Kushan Empire, which I think is the Berserk fantasy version of the Holy Roman Empire, and Vritannis is Rome (the two aren't actually part of each other in Renaissance history :? )
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby Starnum » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:11 pm

I always thought the Kushan were more akin to the Persian Empire.
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby Istvan » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:48 pm

Starnum wrote:I always thought the Kushan were more akin to the Persian Empire.


Or even the Kushan Empire, which actually existed, before being eventually conquered on one side by what became Persia, and on the other side by the Indian Gupta emire. Since a big portion of their empire was based in northern India, even the elephants would make sense.
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby Starnum » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:20 pm

True. I remember reading about the actual Kushan Empire several years ago after someone brought that up, probably in this very thread. :P
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby rozeo » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:47 pm

I thought Kushan Empire is influenced by the Kitai Empire in Guin saga (a Japanese novel by Kurimoto Kaoru and the longest novel in the world). Miura once mentioned that he is a big fan of the novel, and used Nalisu (one of the character in the novel) as a model of Griffith. But yah, as the Japanese, Ganishka and Kanishika (one of emperor in the real Kushan) sounds really similar, so maybe this is origin too, and I always wondered how Ganishka eats food with that teech...maybe he makes quite a mess I guess :lol:
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby TheParagon » Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:47 pm

This is from the manhwa Tower of God (it's a tower with a person standing on one of the fingers):
Image
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby Texanian » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:36 pm

Someone wrote:Bastards ....
"Then you will come to think of things in a wide sense, and taking the Void as the Way, you will thee the Way as Void.In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence,spirit is nothingness."- M.M (TBO5R)
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby Azwraith » Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:58 pm

Any references of the Wolf/Dog that is inside of Gutts?

I know it might be a reference to Fenrir, but that is just speculation. Any other idea?
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby Rolos » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:47 am

(Not really symbolism, more of an idle thought.)
I caught myself thinking about Berserk the other day, in relation to that spiciest of subjects, sex.
One of the things that I liked the most about Berserk was how it treated sex as this foreign, strange thing, alternatively titillating and repulsive, violent and sweet. It's a very teenagery way of approaching the subject, but it was masterfully done, and when I was younger it really resonated with me.

While on the subject of sex, being a red-blooded man, I thought of women. More specifically, women as seen in Berserk. And then I tried to remember any female characters in Berserk who are at no point naked, raped or engaged in some form of intercourse AND appear in more than a few chapters.
I honestly couldn't think of any.
Granted, my knowledge of Berserk is a bit rusty, but still. It makes me look back on something I once enjoyed immensely and ponder about some of the assumptions it made.

I have a lot of respect for the characterization and narrative in Berserk (the whole "Shadows of an Idea" Arc is simply awe-inspiring), but whenever I think about it nowadays it loses some of its luster.
One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings.
~Diogenes of Sinope
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby LordMune » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:56 pm

I'm happy to hear you've started questioning things like that, Rolos. If it's any comfort, Berserk is immensely progressive and fairly equal-opportunity in its victimization, in the context in which it is published. Which in turn is a very problematic context.
"I love a buz" - LordMune, 2012
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby Istvan » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:29 pm

Rolos wrote:(Not really symbolism, more of an idle thought.)
I caught myself thinking about Berserk the other day, in relation to that spiciest of subjects, sex.
One of the things that I liked the most about Berserk was how it treated sex as this foreign, strange thing, alternatively titillating and repulsive, violent and sweet. It's a very teenagery way of approaching the subject, but it was masterfully done, and when I was younger it really resonated with me.

While on the subject of sex, being a red-blooded man, I thought of women. More specifically, women as seen in Berserk. And then I tried to remember any female characters in Berserk who are at no point naked, raped or engaged in some form of intercourse AND appear in more than a few chapters.
I honestly couldn't think of any.
Granted, my knowledge of Berserk is a bit rusty, but still. It makes me look back on something I once enjoyed immensely and ponder about some of the assumptions it made.

I have a lot of respect for the characterization and narrative in Berserk (the whole "Shadows of an Idea" Arc is simply awe-inspiring), but whenever I think about it nowadays it loses some of its luster.


The first one to come to mind would be the young witch, Schierke. Or at least, if any of those things ever happened to her, I can't remember it. Which is not to say you don't have a point, although as LordMune mentions, that point isn't exactly limited to the FEMALE characters in Berserk...

It's generally not a fun world to live in, as awesome as it is to read about.
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Re: Find the Berserk connections (Symbolism thread)

Postby Taem » Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:06 am

I found this tidbit while perusing public pictures looking for something to photoshop:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/internetarchivebookimages/14755331106

Reminds me a LOT of a picture of the Egg of the King. Even more ironic is it's wearing a crown in that pic. Do you think Miura got ideas for the egg from a similar pic?
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