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» Posted November 3rd, 2007 by psi29a

It’s that time again…

Berserk 291 Preview

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361 Responses to “Berserk 291 Preview”

vl7 Says:
November 3rd, 2007 at 4:53 pm
Great, the wait is killing me, hope there isn’t another break after this chapter……….
InterRage Says:
November 3rd, 2007 at 5:16 pm
look at em, he’s ready to get his smile on. with lays potato chips.
tito Says:
November 3rd, 2007 at 6:24 pm
one of my favorite mangas, I cant quite choose between bleach or this, we get bleach weekly!
HR Says:
November 3rd, 2007 at 7:02 pm
HO FUCK NO

give me a break, get on shore of Elf’s island already
Yeror Says:
November 3rd, 2007 at 7:49 pm
weeell at least we will see griffith get his shit on with that kushon emperor dude
blah Says:
November 3rd, 2007 at 9:38 pm
I still don’t even see why he didn’t kill him last time and postponed stuff.
But whatever, I’ll read it.
MR.E Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 1:28 am
i’m starting to dislike bleach it’s too much like Dragon ballz in that too much time is spent talking and going into back story and they keep randomly throwing in new characters to make up for plot short falls. the worse thing though is the huge fall in ichigo’s power after soul society and the fact that they never just attack the freaken bounts directly instead of their puppets and keep letting them go after every battle instead of killing them. berserk is defiantly better way way way better and it looks like the new chapter will come just in time to distract me from exams. thank you Evil Genius et al
lon3vvolf Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 1:42 am
Back to griffith? eh… im getting really tired of that guy. especially since he killed all those guys a while back.

Looks like hes going to the chapel and gonna get married?
uvonky Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 2:35 am
I dont care if i see more griffith. As long as i get my fix of story.
Webster Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 3:29 am
You’ve saved the day ! Cheers mate.
leo Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 3:38 am
what! griffith?! … hmmm? hope the releases would be much faster now. or should i say regular. so i can add something up to my manga collection another volume maybe
leo Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 3:38 am
though griffith looks amazing in this shot.
xero Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 3:56 am
i hope they won’t be any breaks after this chapter
Jericho Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 6:47 am
i am still trying to work out why is is like that and not all uber femto man…

ah well
stoil Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 6:51 am
cheers for the heads-up
Brazilian Guy Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 9:04 am
Man, that waiting is killing me… What wouldn’t I do for a chapter per day…
And it’s looking like Gatts x Griffith won’t came fast

Sorry the bad english
keith Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 9:28 am
soo what magazine is this manga released in so I can buy it now that I am in japan?
LG Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 10:56 am
@keith

YoungAnimal
seishi Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
awesome
thanks EG
Lone Wolf Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
I hate Griffith.Maaaan the chapters whit him are sooo boring >:(
madonnalal Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
More time with Griffith means Gutts and crew get to Elfheilm faster. That’s how I’m going to think about it.
Yoroichi Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Agreed with 5# We want caska back again!
SO that guts can get his sweet loving going and
then maybe go after the bad white pidgeon thingie
The Herald Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Well, if it is Griffth’s wedding, then we’ll get to see Charlotte naked again.
vashfanatic Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
AM I the only person who isn’t waiting on the edge of their seat for our heroes to make it to Elfheim? Seems like it… not that it won’t be interesting when they do, but I think you’re all going to be sorely disappointed re: Caska returning to normal (Miura loves his tragedy and angst).

I’m glad we can finally see Grifith duke it out with the Emperor, that will be some crazy shit. And maybe the end of part three, since now we will have “Falconia” at long last?
Aetherfukz Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 3:47 am
Sweet! How can there be a preview when the manga gets released in japan on the 9th of november? Or was that date in the last chapter the date the english translation would be released?

Anyway as much as I hate Griffith, and a chapter about him, at least that means that our heroes are probably having some time to relax on the way to Elfhell, um, Elfhelm.
Nukeleo Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 7:21 am
@ vashfanatic: Yeah…I’m expecting an issue being devoted to an inner dialogue of Caska realizing what happened and refusing help. Gutts will have to deal.
Turd Ferguson Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 9:35 am
The preview is put out by Young Animal. The Japan release is November 9th. YA has the material form Miura before they actually release their publication.
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 11:37 am
I’m expecting this chapter to yield some interesting results. Griffith has been toying with Emperor Ganishka like a cat toying with a caught mouse. I really think that he has kept the Emperor alive in order to concrete his image as the immortal hero to Midland. At any rate, there has been some reason for him keeping the Emperor alive, and within this chapter, or the next, I’d wager we will see.

As for Guts and crew, I think that we will see them either in Elfhelm or Eath (I think that’s how it’s spelled…) in the chapter after the Emperor’s defeat. That, too, should yield some interesting results. I do think that there will be some motivating force for Guts to confront Griffith aside from his and Caska’s anguish or revenge for the Hawks, I think it will be a bit of a public service duty for Guts and the gang. Which leads me to my real question; after Griffith gets his kingdom (You know he will, he’s just enjoying himself now) what will be his next course of action? Will he pursue Guts and the gang as the next and only logical threat to his demonic empire, or will he unveil his reign of terror upon the people of the world?
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 11:51 am
The problem I see with having a conscious Caska again is that, unless she picked up some power or ability(s) from the abyss as did Guts, she would only be a liability to him, as there would be no way that she could possibly match Griffith or his demonic minions in battle, and Guts would be far too preoccupied with protecting Caska than attacking Griffith and his forces (not that I would mind that at all; I am all for Guts wanting to settle down with Caska, but I know that it’s not going to happen).

The interesting thing is that at one point when Guts was traveling with Caska after the confrontation with Griffith at the field of swords, Caska was confronted by a group of ruffians that intended to rape her (she had walked into their encampment and ate some of their food. They did not take kindly to that.). Somehow she managed a grisly slaughter of said ruffians before Guts could find her, and he was quite taken aback by her apparent ferocity.

I am left wondering if there’s something far more to Caska that she has developed since the eclipse that has not been fully revealed to us yet.
Lazarus Ledd Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
Can you do something so that the preview picture of Berserk can be seen on Opera browser.

I dunno if it’s about me, but when i try it with firefox, it’s ok.

I just prefer Opera. And I read lately since it’s less popular, it’s got less chances to be attacked by cyber criminals who have narror array of potential victims at Opera user base.

I love berserk. It’s my manga no.1. With Trigun as anime no.1, i’ve just recently got a hold on the whole manga version.
Thanks to EG I’m up to date. It’s a blessing and a curse. A blessing in a way that I started reading berserk around 2002, so i wasn’t bothered with keeping up to date like now. I had my pace. I enjoyed greatly that the anime version wasn’t the end. The fight continued =D
FallenTitan Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
i wonder what would happen if griffith loses to the kushan emperor…
like
“k i’m mad now”
*griffith goes mad*
“damn i just erased half of the continent in my blind wrath”
FallenTitan Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
also, casca’s death after regaining her memory(which is after all a possibility to consider)killed by griffiths minions, or even worse by griffith himself, would piss Guts quite badly, and that would make him take a decision like “i can’t involve friends into my business anymore”
and sets off to settle the score with griffith all by himself,
or with the help of the skeleton knight.
Killxo Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 8:51 pm

i just hope theres some shots of Puck atleast, god damn hes so hilarious.
Marduk Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
I think there’s too much guessing around, to many if’s. Really wouldn’t you just be surprised yet again by Miura’s awesome storytelling ability?

that being said, if memory serves, there’re too many unresolved traumas for guts to deal with. I really can’t remember exactly but in every story the hero goes through a personal growth experience before being able to defeat his enemy, not the fill in enemies, his real enemy. And comes to the realization that it’s not revenge that fuels his fate but rather a sense of duty towards the others.

Of course we’re talking berserk, here and that changes many of the rules. But if you ask me no frigging elf can change that, it’s something guts must overcome on his own. none the less, an elf king might give the crew some nice upgrades!
Aetherfukz Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 2:28 am
“The problem I see with having a conscious Caska again is that, unless she picked up some power or ability(s) from the abyss as did Guts, she would only be a liability to him”

–

Since when did Guts “pick up power from the abyss”? Guts is still the same Guts that fought Zodd with the Hawks. His sword maybe “enchanted” because he slew so many demons with it, but Guts himself isn’t in anyway enhanced. Especially not by the abyss, the thing he fights against.
Azer Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 4:19 am
Screw Griffith he sucks balls. I want to see Guts get to Elf Island -__-
MR.E Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 6:45 am
@ Aetherfukz

i think, if i remember correctly, Schierke said something about guts being able to enhance his physical ability through a form of telekinesis as a result of living in both worlds at once, i believe she said it after seeing him lift his sword for the first time or the firsts time she saw him slaughter some trolls. my memory is hazy and i don’t have those chapters anymore but someone else can hopefully look it up for us.
Death&Rebirth Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 7:21 am
I don’t know if we can consider throwing himself against an horde of enemies, thrusting and slashing with his sword a power picked from the abyss (unless, abyss is some kind of metaphor to “training with Gambino”). IIRC, Gutts doesn’t have any telekinesis or is with it that he enhances his physical ability (which only happens with his berserk armour). As much as we want to think otherwise, Gutts is as “normal” as a person can be in that universe. Now he does have a slight handicap because he did survive the Eclipse, which makes him stand between the realms and more easily detect beings from the “Abyss” (i.e. incubus, apostles, etc.). Something that Caska can also do, for the same cited reason. Also Caska had (i don’t remenber if she still has it) the “divine” protection of her son’s spirit that saved her from a lot of dire situations.
vashfanatic Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 10:48 am
he’s a horrible thought: what if Grifith turns out to be a good ruler?
what if he doesn’t unleash death and terror on Midland, but instead the same harmony and egalitarianism he’s demonstrated in his new Band of Hawks?
And what will that make Guts and the rest of our heroes look like in the eyes of Midlanders when they try to kill him?
citan666 Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 11:24 am
What if one of the reasons Griffith hasn’t killed Ganishka is he wants another apostle. He’s going to “zodd” him. If you think about it, why would he destroy an army if he could take it over?
vashfanatic Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
citan666 said:
What if one of the reasons Griffith hasn’t killed Ganishka is he wants another apostle. He’s going to “zodd” him. If you think about it, why would he destroy an army if he could take it over?

hmm… yeah, if he could turn Ganishka, I’m sure he would. I wonder if we’re going to get backstory for the emperor? like, how he became an apostle and why he’s against the GodHand?
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
@Aetherfukz

I’m just going by what the skull knight said (and also Schierke, I believe?) in that as Guts and Caska have survived prolonged exposure to the abyss they would henceforth exist between the two realities, and that they would be empowered, so to speak, through having survived their ordeal. I’m not sure how he worded it, as it was a WHILE back and I’d have to search through “The Idea of God” knows how much clutter to find that volume, but I am almost 100% certain that there was some connotation of having gained some fantastic power or strength through the eclipse.

Also, why share power with Ganishka? If we’ve seen any side of Griffith, it is that he lets nothing stand between him and his goal. If he feels that Ganishka might even try to oppose his ascension, which he already has, he would then eliminate him. At that moment when Griffith stood before Ganishka with the regality of a God, and Ganishka was left breathless, Griffith could have had the emperors allegiance with a single word, but he did not desire that. Instead, he chose to hold the final confrontation elsewhere, at the Midland Castle, in view of as many Midlanders as possible. Why? Most likely to solidify his image and rule as the uncontested king of Midland. I really think that Griffith loves that moment of awe that he instills in people.
vl7 Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
vashfanatic Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 10:48 am
he’s a horrible thought: what if Grifith turns out to be a good ruler?
what if he doesn’t unleash death and terror on Midland, but instead the same harmony and egalitarianism he’s demonstrated in his new Band of Hawks?
And what will that make Guts and the rest of our heroes look like in the eyes of Midlanders when they try to kill him?

I don’t think that much would change, since the eclipse Guts put two goals above everything else, getting ahold of Griffith and taking care of Caska, everything els e is a few levels below. I think Griffith will actually be a great leader, but Guts won’t care, as much as he didn’t care about all those religious dwerps, he has been judged by people who knew absolutly nothing about him, his intentions and reasons before… It’ll be just another frustration in his quest to get ahold of Griffith…
asa Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 7:04 pm
My favorite series ever. I wish they made the second anime season…
otakuzero Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
I doubt that a conscious Caska is going to be that much of a liability. Earlier on when Gatts was defending her himself and she got away from him, by the time he had caught up with her, she had–without a stitch of clothing on–gotten a a weapon away from a trio of armed and armored would-be rapists and had killed all three of them.
Also, it does not seem as if the spirit creatures that they fight every night actually try to harm her…they seem to protect her–especially if you look at what the vengeful spirits of the dead did when the clergy attempted to torture Caska in an iron maiden not long before that…
I’m looking forward to the future episodes however they go. Miura has yet to to fail when it comes to making the build-up worthwhile!
InterRage Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 9:09 pm
man, I miss the battle scenes with guts. especially against Mozgus’ henchman, the holy iron chain knights and Serpico.

If only there were an OVA second series with some slick animation.
Wickian Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
I’d like to see the elf king enchant Guts’ steel arm with mobility. It seems unlikely that he’ll ever get his eye and arm back, so given that little event with fake arm and Caska falling into the ocean, it think an enchanted arm might just happen.
vashfanatic Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
@ Wickian

Magic eye and arm? That would be awesome!!! Why has that idea never occurred to me before?

The only problem with Caska getting her old identity back will be the angst it’ll cause by having her remember the horrific trauma of the Eclipse. Both her remaining amnesiac and her returning to normal would be bad… but that’s Miura for ya.
annull Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 1:19 am
@ Deatha&Rebirth

Um… yea uh huh… Gutts sure is “as normal as a person can be in that universe” since he kills apostles… No other human, (yet to be seen) has near his strength or agility. If you think that Gutts is just a normal human then your mother dropped you as a child. If he was as normal as you say, then why are there not other humans killing apostles? Gutts and his troop are the only active human force fighting and succeeding against Griffith and the demon apostles. Gutts is definitely “special”, whether he gained powers from surviving the Eclipse or not. And you can’t say his rage is what makes him superhuman(even though it does propel him to new heights) because no matter how pissed off you get you can’t do the shit he does. I know this is a fictional world, but it tries to adhere to realistic laws as best it can. Whether Gutts is Abyss-Powered or an “Avatar of Humanity”, he is anything but “as normal as a person can be in that universe”, berserk armor or not.
nocturnal Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 2:16 am
he meant normal as in he got all his abilitys from hard work, sweat and blood, determination and possible a healthy diet.
Aetherfukz Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 5:30 am
@annull: There are other people besides Guts killing or having killed apostles. Pippin, Judeu and Caska killed some at the eclipse. Serpico and Isidro while not having slaying apostles themselves, killed various monsters and magical creatures.

How would Guts be “special” when he was just like the apostles he fights, empowered by the abyss? Guts is a normal human. Granted, a freaking ass-kicking master swordsman, but still, human. His sword may be “enchanted” through his demon killing but giving a human a magical weapons doesn’t make uber-human.
The whole point is that Guts is “just” a human, fighting higher beings through sheer will and eagerness to survive.

And on the topic of Caska regaining her memory: I too think that she would be a formidable fighter and aid to Guts, as she was before. At least she could “cover his back”
Mr.E Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 6:11 am
@ various people

i distinctly remember Schierke saying something about gutts being able to carry around the dragon slayer so easily due to existing in both worlds, that the physical world had less of an effect on him, or something along those lines. it was in the arc with the trolls. despite that, consider gut’s enormous strength it was already beyond normal humans before the eclipse but after he was almost unbound by the laws of physics. more importantly guts doesn’t seem to lose any strength regardless of how little he eats or how much weight he’s losses, considering how cut he was before and he apparently hasn’t been eating lately so lost more weight he still suffers no loss in strength. the conclusion must be that something other than just his muscles gives him is strength
Fallcon Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 9:13 am
Our dark Messiah returns n` Falconia will be completed!!!!!!!!
Gemino Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 9:25 am
The real world is already plunging into darkness by merging with the astral world like the quilofth where SLAN and Guts fought. Once Griffith assumes legitimate power as a King it will only get worse. Griffith doesn’t care what kind of kingdom he rules just as long as he has his own kingdom.
Mystyc Vegeta Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 10:02 am
it’s that time again… the hell it is ! :D >:)
still… I’ll miss Guts until this fight is over
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 10:41 am
O.K., Why do I see Caska’s return of sentience as a potential liability to Guts? Let me put it this way.

Is Griffith stupid? Did he take a nail from a nail-gun to the head? No, He knows now, just as he did at the eclipse, that the way past all of Guts’ armor and all of his strength is Caska.

Secondly, look closely at the rest of Guts’ companions, elves aside (They really don’t contribute to combat purposes). Certainly, they are a formidable group, but BY NORMAL HUMAN STANDARDS! Could any one of them, Guts aside, have successfully stood their ground against Grunbeld? Obviously not. Certainly they would be able to aid Guts with various skills and tactics, as I am sure that Guts will need some assistance with apostles like Irvine the Archer, but all it would take would be Caska getting surrounded by big hulking armored demons like in the eclipse, as it would for any others within Guts’ band (save Guts). Unless she has been empowered by the eclipse, or has her own equivalent of Berserker’s armor, she should not be put into combat situations against Griffith and his forces.
The Devil Domo Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 11:59 am
Ideally, Guts develops some kind of cloaking for his armor. Stealth Guts =P

Irvine the archer is caught taking a dump in the woods and shived by guts, CSI can’t trace Irvine’s demise back to Guts; Griffith is left wondering.
shcnoff Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
sure she should. i’m tired of “caska this,” and “caska that.” if she got killed, then guts could get back into action. its what all true berserk fans want. throw away that ball and chain, guts, and go kick some ass.
Bagheera Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
ARRG!!!! Elf island! NOW!

@ shcnoff
Caska is his drive unfortunately. Without her as a catalyst, he would probably just fall over dead.
erfo Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
after two- three chapter ,guts become like scull knight
monsieur Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Griffith has the demonic child’s essence in his body, so he cannot hurt Casca, its mother. That’s why I think a conscious Casca would be a great help again Griffith. A dagger and that’s all, folks.Or maybe she prefer to go back near Griffith? Or take revenge on Guts who gave her back her painfull memory?
Brazilian Guy Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
I don’t no if we can be sures about what is Caska doing when she gets her mind straight back. I remember the words of the Skull Knight “what she wants may not be what you want”, or something like this.
What if she doesn’t want to fight Griffith? Maybe she thinks that Griffith did what he had to do in a way to get his country.
killer Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
i hope to see Griffith new powers that we didn’t see before
I hate to wait Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 3:05 am
i don’t know and i don’t care what caska thinks or what she has to say, im sure gutz is going to kick that hawk back to the damn hole from where he came, whit or whitout caska’s permission
Adavanter Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 5:29 am
I also clearly remember (and I have great memory for these things) them mentioning something along the lines of the longer the marked ones stay alive between realms the stronger they could become. So Gutts is indeed supernaturally enhanced. True he kicked ass as a human but barely… BARELY won against demons. Now that he’s been through the eclipse… he’s gradually become more and more powerful. The down side is… he’s still mortal so he can get torn up and it takes him forever to heal (save for the elves dust)… plus he continues to bare the scars.

Which makes me love Berserk. Gutts isn’t invincible and you can almost feel his exhaustion mounting through out the series. Can’t wait to see what happens at Elfheilm… I think Caska will indeed get her memories back but she’s going to be a mess. I’ll also agree I’m not entirely enthralled with Griffin’s story arc so far. I mean I get it… he’s using satin like charm to unite the land and rise to power… at an incredible slow pace… If I’d have to choose I’d follow Gutts and co. any day compared to Griffin. Love his followers though.
Marte Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 6:02 am
>>55
Yes, Griffith raped Caska because that was necessary to get his country.Are you retarded?
Ahmed Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 7:11 am
@brazilian
I dunno man, i mean i think that caska is really living her days as a 4 yearold for the past while till now.

But you know what i’m dying to see ?!..a fight between gatts & zodd like the one when he revisited Judeau and saw Griffith

He was like O.O…..XZ GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I LOVE IT when he goes nuts ! XD
Avil Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 8:41 am
I’m dying to see the battle of Griffith against the Kushan army lol,Go Griffith Lancers =D
vashfanatic Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
“What if she doesn’t want to fight Griffith? Maybe she thinks that Griffith did what he had to do in a way to get his country.” and “Yes, Griffith raped Caska because that was necessary to get his country.Are you retarded?”

Yay! I finally get a place to say this: raping Caska was all about sticking it to Gutts. She’d always been Griffith’s fan-girl, and then she fell for Gutts. But Griffith can’t stand seeing that power taken away from him, so he *makes* her his. It had nothing to do with his ambition, just his ego.

Caska will not support Griffith if she remembers all of that… but since Griffith is partly her reincarnated child, she may have difficulty killing him.
EC Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
Well, certainly Caska will be a liability, but much less so than she already is. At least she’ll be able to function on her own, think properly, not have someone that needs to watch her etc. Yeah, she’ll still be a burden, but compared to before, much much less.

I don’t know why people are saying Gutts is super-charged because the eclipse. He beat that one apostle Zodd kills later before the Eclipse. Survived against Zodd too.

I think it’s only his experience that’s made him stronger. They did meantion that his sword has some magical charge to it from all the demons he’s killed, but not much else. I mean, after all, that smith guy said he has wielded it,(the dragon slayer) right?

Anyway, looking forward to the release.
vashfanatic Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
The impression I’m under is that there are different levels of apostles based on the level of their sacrifice. Some are just small fry, but others a major players like Zodd, the Kushan Emperor, and probably some of the leaders in the New Band of the Hawks. Guts nearly killed a high-ranking Apostle (Wyald (sp.?)), and only survived against Zodd before because Zodd either withdrew or because the Skull Knight interfered.

In regards to Guts now having superhuman ability, the first reference I came across was in volume 13, chapter 91, where the Skull Knight says as Guts is wailing on some ghosts, “Hmph… Those who survive the Eclipse. Because of that rare power, you are the one who must struggle.” (Band of the Hawks translation). Moreover, the Dragon Slayer isn’t enchanted, it’s just freaking HUGE, much larger even than Guts’ oversized sword before the Eclipse. The demonic being that causes him to go berserk is also something new since the Eclipse.

That being said, Guts is still human, just a human being who has slipped further into the other world than humans normally do. Funny thing is, Caska should be the same way, so if she regained her memories, she’d probably be “powered up” as well.
Nydhogg Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
I don’t know if we can really group Zodd with the other apostles.. he’s been called the gatekeeper before so I don’t know about the sacrifice part and so on.. and that sword isn’t just huge.. it gained some kind of power from continuosly slaying apostles.
Death&Rebirth Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
@# annull Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 1:19 am

“If you think that Gutts is just a normal human then your mother dropped you as a child. If he was as normal as you say, then why are there not other humans killing apostles?”

That was a really retarded reply, but anyway, i think Aetherfukz reply suffix to explain it better. Moreover, Gutts mind only had one goal – “survive”. No matter how big or strong the opponent he couldn’t run if he had to survive, he had to fight him (pretty similar to Conan in this aspect, i think, unless you think Conan has also super powers. That’s why he went against Zodd, while others would run in fear. That’s why he throw himself against the other apostle sent after Griffith prior to the Eclipse (i forgot his name). Over and over, no matter the odds he would step forward.
While we wasn’t fighting we was training with his sword (with some weights attached to it and this clearly visible after the first encounter with Zodd or simply slashing tree trunks that fall from a waterfall). Also the weapon of choice was always a sword as big as himself, so picking the DS was only a step ahead of the sword (in term of height and weight) he would usually use and in the firsts battles Gutts looks a bit clumsy with it (using much more the momentum of the movement to slash that simply his own strength) because we was still getting use to it.

Now if you still think, even knowing this, that you need to be super-powered then you have issues and in that i can’t help you. Another thing, it’s fiction, so some extrapolation of normal parameters used by the author might happen frequently. I did use normal between comas and set in that universe.
The Masaba Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
You realize that the Bount Arc was filler and that’s why it sucks so much, but when it comes to manga Berserk is hands down the best there is, despite the long waiting period. But ya, it looks like Griffith’s on his way to becoming King. s***!
guren no kishi Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
Chapter 292 on November 22.
Sweet.
vashfanatic Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
@Death and Rebirth

Who the hell is Conan? Did I miss that character in “Berserk”?
shcnoff Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
conan the barbarian. that’s who he’s referring to. miura said that conan is a big influence on berserk, so i think we can “approve” of death&rebirth’s camparison. guts is always called struggler, and i think this analogy falls right in line with that idea. not only will guts struggle against fate and his own limitations, he also can’t back away from a fight. except when caska tries to kill him. then he takes it like a man. he also gives up in volume one, to a pathetically small group of soldiers. why did he do that?
Ashbrook Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 11:27 pm
To those that say Caska may be a liability…you’re forgetting she’s a skilled fighter, and I’m sure she’s better then Ishidiro.

However, Guts may not want his beloved to fight Demons by his side, rather then to hide in a hole somewhere in safety.
annull Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 1:24 am
So Guts is a normal man that through “training” and “iron-willpower” became so powerful and agile that he could defeat major apostles?(Grunbeld, Moth-Chick etc). We are talking about monsters with strength to smash even seasoned blademasters into pulp without effort. I don’t buy it. Why do people think what he does is humanly capable even in that world? Guts is worlds above a normal human, and it is definitely not his willpower and training that make him so great. There is some other power at work. Death@Rebirth has still not answered why there are not other “normal humans with extraordinary willpower and training” fighting demon apostles and instead has conveniently side-stepped a crucial point.
The truth is that in the world of Berserk the only top dogs are the demon apostles, the God Hand et al and Gut’s Troop(the troop being basically castrated without Guts). Why is Guts on par with “major” demon apostles? We have yet to see.
FallenTitan Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 5:42 am
“So Guts is a normal man that through “training” and “iron-willpower” became so powerful and agile that he could defeat major apostles?(Grunbeld, Moth-Chick etc).”

Add a freakin enormous sword that could slice a building in halves, and yes he could.
Eltee Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 6:35 am
You forgot to add he can totally bypass pain and broken bones thanks to the armor.
zombie Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 7:37 am
sup guys. saw some interesting dicussions so i figured i’d throw my thoughts into the mix.

issue 1 – guts: normal or not
i have some mixed feelings on this. generally, i consider guts a normal human in the sense that he didn’t achieve his great power in one night by making a sacrifice. he had to develop above normal human abilities from many years of fighting strong enemies. at the same time, he is not normal in the sense that he able to achieve a level where he can stand against apostles. i think anyone in the world of berserk has the ability to become like guts, but that author has chosen to not let anyone else do so. (wouldn’t be an interesting story otherwise, right?)

issue 2 – the eclipse
some of you have pointed out that being at the eclipse gave guts and caska a great magical power. i don’t believe so. it’s true that they gained some magical abilities in the sense that their brand allows them to feel when an apostle is near and aparently existing between two worlds, but nothing to explain why guts is able to do what he does. for caska it might be different. there was that time with the false eclipse when she put in that spikey coffin (maybe that was her child’s doing?). same goes for the sword. guts has already proven that he can kill apostles with knives, daggers, bombs, and demon horns. makes no difference to him.

when the skull knight was referring to caska and guts being able to survive the eclipse, i don’t think he meant they were empowered by it. the series makes a lot of references to fate and such so, for me, i think he was trying to point out that these two were born with some special ability. one that allows them escape the “normal flow of casuality”. especially guts, who has been defying death since his birth (beign born from a dead woman hanging from a tree, etc etc). he is no apostle, but he no normal human either.

so many more issues to cover, so little time. i’ll stop here. later

p.s. thanks to EG for being committed to the berserk translations. keep up the nice work
ohyeah Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 7:50 am
and that his sword is filled with some demonic power that could even cut off “big-lightning-man”
lurker Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 9:13 am
In reply to post 77. Guts only managed to defeat moth-girl by using all the advantage he could, even ambushing her when she wanted to save her friend. In fact before saving Caska from during the rebirth arc, Guts only won against major apostle using underhanded, anything to survive means. This proves that Guts is not beyond human limits. As for Grunbeld, Guts was totalled before putting on the cursed armor.

The notion of Guts having supernatural abilities arises during the mission with Schierke to the troll infested village. The young witch wondered how could Guts slay all the trolls, which are spiritual beings according to Miura and theorized that by existing so long in the between the realms that Guts gained the ability to affect the the spirit world. Hence, Guts having supernatural abilities. However, she later realises that the only thing supernatural about Guts is his sword which carry the curses or aura from slaying many, many evil spirits. His fighting abilities on the other hand are all due to training and experience.

Which raises the question, if Guts met the troll earlier, would he have been able to slay them using the Dragonslayer?
erfo Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 10:06 am
way most of us are on side of guts ?may be we dont understand grifit way ,i think there is any pepole betwen us who are near to grifit idea ,than guts
Monsiuer Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Ok, from what I understand, Gutts can hurt apostles and kill apostles because his dragon slayer sword, which has been killing small spirits that attack him since after the eclipse. Thousands of minor spirits power up his cutting into demons ability. This has been mentioned somewhere in that past, perhaps by Schierke when Gutts first cuts into demons because he decided not to use the axe her mistress had.

This does not explain why Gutts was able to take down that one apostle right before the eclipse, it might be for any number of reasons from having fought with Zodd in the past or perhaps having been born from a corpse underneath a tree(he might have mistical origins)

The only thing Gutts got from the eclipse might be that he isn’t controlled by fate since he lives in both the human and spirit world due to the branding. This is from the Skull Knight I believe. [To me, this doesn't seem true since so far he is following the Skull Knights path and there have been prophecies he's been part of(like the one with Zodd having to choose to fight with the one he admires or work with him).]
annull Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
I believe Guts is 100% homegrown, wheaties-eating human. And of course, he has the Dragonslayer and his Berserk Armor. Still, there’s more to him than that.
Monsiuer Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
I hope at Elfhelm we will learn both Gutts power and maybe we’ll hear more about if the Dragon Slayer has ever really killed a dragon(which could attest to some of the power it has).
Death&Rebirth Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
I believe that annull it’s a dense person and doesn’t know how to read. That I’m certain.

Ok, try again. This is my reply to your answer, you get the cookie if you find the answer. If not, go back to elementary school:

“That was a really retarded reply, but anyway, i think Aetherfukz reply suffix to explain it better.”

—————–
“# shcnoff Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 9:56 pm

conan the barbarian. that’s who he’s referring to. miura said that conan is a big influence on berserk, so i think we can “approve” of death&rebirth’s camparison. guts is always called struggler, and i think this analogy falls right in line with that idea. not only will guts struggle against fate and his own limitations, he also can’t back away from a fight. except when caska tries to kill him. then he takes it like a man. he also gives up in volume one, to a pathetically small group of soldiers. why did he do that?”

Yehaa, i remenber that. It didn’t make much sense why. I mean he doesn’t care for their lives and they weren’t that strong (quite puny). The only explanation can be that we wanted to know the apostle location or even sent a message to him.
Thana Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Guts isnt a creature or a god. He is definitely a human. His extraordinary training made his body strong so that he can survive the claps of apostles which break apart ordinary people. These attacks dont leave him unaffected though. He has pain. It is hard for him to fight these creatures. It is his willpower that makes the pain vanish. He fights to win. This isnt something special – that is what even in the medieval was called a berserk.

The sword and the armour are special though. This equip strengthens his natural abilities even more.

“Why is Guts the only human able to kill apostles?”
1. He is one of the few humans who even trys to…
2. He isnt the only one. In the abyss Caska and Judeau sliced some of them.

What do you need to kill an apostle? Well, Guts only slices them… Remember! In the beginning Guts’ sword was just an ordinary sword and was always able to cut through them.
annull Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Judea, Pippen, and Caska killed very minor apostles, they would be destroyed in two clicks by major apostles. They couldn’t even live against minor apostles, thus they got killed.

“I believe that annull it’s a dense person and doesn’t know how to read. That I’m certain.”

I’m certain you can’t spell.
Death&Rebirth Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Gutts and Griffith could be have been killed earlier by now if Zodd didn’t saw the behelit in that moment, so what’s your point? And did Gutt killed any major apostle? The snake guy wasn’t that strong. Moguz was hard that i can give you. But major, it doesn’t seem quite true. Major is Zodd and up. Below are medium and minor apostles.

“# annull Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 3:23 pm

“I believe that annull it’s a dense person and doesn’t know how to read. That I’m certain.”

I’m certain you can’t spell.”

Since I’m not anglo-saxonic, could you point out my spelling errors in that phrase, oh wise sir.
Dequer Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
A deduction:

If Guts is human then he is natural. However if Guts is supernatural then he is not natural. If Guts battles with a sword weighing more than 250 pounds then he is supernatural. Guts battles with a sword weighing more than 250 pounds. Therefore, Guts is not human.

A proof:

Since Guts battles with a sword weighing more than 250 pounds, he is supernatural.
Since Guts is supernatural, he is not natural.
Since Guts is not natural, he is not human.

supernatural: 1. of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena.
Twilight Wizard Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
One thing that gives Guts an edge is the fact that he was wielding a relatively huge sword and fighting since he was a tiny kid, but that’s still not enough. If anything it should give him back problems, except for… If you guys ever noticed, he has pointed ears.. he might have some fairy blood or something, too.
SuperiorShortness Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
*salutes….
The Berserk 291 Raw is out …. WOO WOO
krazyivan Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
finally!
As for Griffith and Ganishka – He will kill him – I’m sure about that. Just keep in mind that he wants his victory to be even more spectacular to leave no doubt about his being the sole protector of Midland. About Gutts – maybe it’s the experience, maybe superpowers, maybe both – thats not that important – go and flame each other- somewhere else and leave this space for EG to give us an update about the raws/translation.
shcnoff Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
i think above zodd you have god-hand members, who aren’t apostles. griffith’s current captains are the strongest apostles: zodd, grundbeld, the pretty guy, the lancer and the archer. i would put ganishka on the same level as grundbeld or zodd, unless he has some new abilities, which i’m sure he does, that take him to the next level. he believes he is stronger than griffith’s captains, but we’ll have to wait and see. guts is special, but i’m not sure he qualifies as more than human. obviously if someone had a canon mounted in their arm and the battle experience of killing hundreds if not thousands of people over the course of their life, they will be able to kill giant monsters. add to that a magic suit of armor and a 200 lb, 6 ft sword imbued with the power to damage spiritual forms as well as physical, and you have a “normal” person who can kill apostles, but maybe not (still hasn’t been able to) the highest tier of apostles, and definitely guts does not have the power to kill any member of the god-hand. he can send them back to the abyss, but he can’t kill them. maybe the skullknight can, with his behelit sword, but it seems like he won’t get a chance to use it unless he either tags along with someone who summons the god hand, or gets past zodd again during the next eclipse. but there can be no argument at all that the skullknight is a normal human.
Pitius Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 6:12 pm
Before the eclipse, we ve seen Guts as a normal human, who lived an extremely military life from small age, only training surviving and fighting. That and his exceptional willpower explains his fighting prowess, and as previously mentioned he barely managed to defeat some apostles, as some other like Pipin did. But, the circumstances of Guts birth are somewhat mysterious, and maybe he was already gifted and cursed by then. Guts had from early ages weird dreams and just maybe some kind of an advanced perception, at least in the sense of danger incoming, and maybe the scull knight was refering not only to his life but to whatever relates with birth too. Also, it is not known who his father was, or why his mother was hanged. His father could be anyone, from a hero to something unnatural or his own mother could be a witch or something.
EC Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
Ch. 209

Silke says: “Is this the result of his body being constantly within the ‘hazama’ so long that the spirit can influence it’s physical surroundings? Or…”
(next pg) “that shadow which surrounds his sword is…”
annull Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
I’m going to fix your spelling errors:

Gutts and Griffith could be have been killed earlier by now if Zodd didn’t saw(SEE) the behelit in(AT) that moment, so what’s your point? And did Gutt killed(KILL) any major apostle(S)? The snake guy wasn’t that strong. Moguz was hard that i can give you. But major, it doesn’t seem quite true. Major is Zodd and up. Below are medium and minor apostles.

# annull Says:

November 9th, 2007 at 3:23 pm

“I believe that annull it’s(IS) a dense person and doesn’t know how to read. That I’m certain.”

I’m certain you can’t spell.”

Since I’m not anglo-saxonic, could you point out my
spelling errors in that phrase, oh wise sir.
annull Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
oh yea, and

Gutts and Griffith could be have been(COULD HAVE BEEN) killed earlier by now if Zodd didn’t saw(SEE) the behelit in(AT) that moment, so what’s your point? And did Gutt killed(KILL) any major apostle(S)?
JB Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
Funny thing, this preview could be in color and it still look the same…
Jack Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Thanks again for all the berserk scanlations evil-genius
InterRage Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 10:29 pm
@Annul
Guts beat Zodd remember? Zodd was this monster who thought he couldn’t find his match anywhere, and that was his weakness that Guts exploited….but then the tables turned when Zodd transformed. Even then, Guts and Griffith could have killed Zodd if he didn’t have that healing ability.
This was when Guts wised up about those sort of creatures in this world, and so he started his demon killing training after he left the hawks.
InterRage Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
All apostles are major. Guts got fucked up fighting the snake baron, the count(majorly fucked up here), Wyald(got fucked up), Pirkaf(she wasn’t no pushover), Mosgus(Guts wupped him up though). the only one who actually defeated Guts was Zodd.
Augusto Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 11:22 pm
Oh man! I am excited for this!
vashfanatic Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 12:03 am
Can we not argue about this so much? Or at least be civil rather than slinging about “if you think that, you’re an idiot!”s all the time?

I like hearing debates rage, but lets respect the fact that this is literary interpretation, and unless you have the word from Miura’s mouth, beliefs aren’t correct so much as they are justifiable. (Urgh, methods and theories class is starting to leak into my every day life… this is bad!)
Mr.E Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 12:52 am
thanks EC
that was what i remembered Schierke saying which hopefully clears things up a bit i’m interested to know why Miura decided to leave it up in the air like that but gut’s spirit being able to affect the physical world explains his strength with out leaving plot holes and errors in the story line, even though it’s magic it lends itself to more realism if guts doesn’t rely just on his physical muscles.
Lost_echos Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 3:42 am
T_T QQ where is it im almost dieing to get it i need my beserk fix
justpassing Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 6:33 am
This might sound stupid but has anyone wondered if the Behelit Guts has (I think it’s the one he got before he fought the Count) Is actuly His? I mean aren’t Behelits supposed to stay only with those who are chosen by causality? I doubt he’d accept the GodHand’s proposal if it is but imagine an Apostal Guts!

Just in case someone says it: I know he says the Behelit isn’t his and that he just picked it up, but that doesn’t really mean anything does it.
Lone Wolf Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 7:40 am
Re:Reginald Funkenstein

Gutts don’t gain any dark powers from the abyss.I think the “How long can one man face the darkness before it changes him into a monster?” sentence.He don’t have some super,ultra,flashy powers he has only his sword,his rage and his (almost)two hands.That’s what I like in Gutts,the thing that he depends on his strength,on his sword…on himself.And thats why I respect him,the will to swing that sword comes from the hope,and the love he harvest from Caska.Getting her healthy again is the thing he want the most right now.I remember the beach chapter,where Caska was running around the beach whit Isidro.Then Gutts was a little bit happy to see Caska’s smile again.No there is nothing supernatural that he has borrowed from that spawns,this is the man true strength and the coast of using it whit rage…The inner beast…he was always in Gutts but The Eclipse and the tragedy there has awaken him and now he want to do what his master like the most…kill everything…And the Berserk Armor don’t make it easy to control…That damn cursed armor…representing what you are inside…in Gutts case – a dark beast…
Nekou Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 8:26 am
Finally.
Thanks guys
koro Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 8:29 am
i found the problem with Opera – width/height of the image is given in % instead of px or em.. it would be really really cool if you will remove this “anti-Opera” code
(or for Opera users: open the code, delte the tags, reoad the page from the cash))
Mr.E Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 8:31 am
i think people are getting confused here no one is suggesting that hes gotten powers from the abyss, like he tapped into the abyss (well some people are but i think they should rethink their position) the strength he received is because the boundary between the physical and spirit world has become hazed therefore Guts can use his OWN spirit instead of using just his physical muscles, he hasn’t gained any power from anywhere but just as normal training would develop his muscles, fighting constantly in the ‘hazama’ has developed (or trained) his spirit force. he still deserves credit for surviving because everything he’s done till now has been entirely him. think of it as if you started walking around bare footed on hot gravel all day, soon the soles of your foot will adapt and thicken in order to protect them but the floor hasn’t borrowed you any power, your feet become stronger in response to the new stimuli. this effect is what i believe is happening to Gutts his body and spirit have adapted to living in the ‘hazama’ and as a result developed his ego and spirit.
Fatchamp55 Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 9:22 am
Sorry, for the random and probably stupid question. But, does anyone know why guts hair suddenly turned gray. DOes that imply tthat the suit ages him.
Mister Mon Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 10:29 am
Well my last postings got deleted for some reason, so I’ll repost:

Gutts is a normal human, the reason he can cut apostles and even kill then is because his dragon slayer sword has killed(and absorbed?) thousands of small spirits that have tried to kill him since the Eclipse. He could kill those spirits because they were really weak. That has been mentioned before, perhaps by Schierke at the Troll phase storyline. Normally a sword can’t do such things unless enchanted with spirits(Serpico’s and other kids weps). This does not explain how Gutts defeated the one Apostle that Zodd finished off right before the Eclipse, so we may see if Gutts is somehow special because he was ‘born’ from a corpse or fought previously with Nosferatu Zodd.

The only thing Gutts ‘got’ from the Eclipse was the brand, which allows him to stand in the spirit and human, thus perhaps allowing him to escape fate(that’s what the Skull Knight said). So far this doesn’t seem the case, since he’s been following the Skull Knights path, fulfilled prophecies(being Schierke’s future and Zodd’s you can fight or work with the one you admire). Seems like fate so far.

As for Griffith postponing the fight with the Emperor, that’s simple. He wants to become the worlds hero, and he has to win many ‘uphill’ battles to prove himself. If he beat the Emperor first thing, he’d never get as much respect. That and there is that prophecy of defeating him in Midland, so he fulfills it and becomes the peoples Messiah.
Omar Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 10:34 am
@Lazarus Ledd: Indeed, I also am using Opera and cannot see the image posted, though it works fine in IE.
Adavanter Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
Anyone thinking Gutts is a normal human with no extra source of power beyond physical training… doesn’t understand the story and missed a key part. While he still is mainly a mere mortal his soul being split between the two realms has made him go beyond that. It’s given him the potential to quite possibly rival and surpass the apostles. Let’s not forget common sense either… No human can do what Gutts does… even with enchanted weapons Serpico pales in comparison. True the story doesn’t imply everything that’s happening has to be completely normal. The whole idea of the massive sword is reaching as it is. It’s the fact that the story it self comments on Gutts becoming stronger then normal… doing things the average humans can’t. Not just because he’s trained or a awesome warrior… because he’s moved beyond their bounds.

It’s not even a debate really… the story makes note of it and expects us to understand that he’s stepping slowly into a whole new world of power. Which the series has constantly shown. I don’t care if you’re Chuck Norris… you can’t beat an apostle with a normal sword and tons of training. You need…. Oh say your soul split between two realms… Yeah that should do it…Where have I heard/read that before hmm?
citan666 Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
This is one of the reason’s I love berserk. It’s a definitive story yet arises so much speculation and wonder. I think alot of berserk is the wonder at what’s happening. It’s the perfect balance of answering questions yet bringing just as interesting one afterwards. It may sound weird but people debating over these things tend to make the story better for myself. Just being able to read other peoples perspective adds more depth to the story personally.

To wrap this up, keep arguing guys. It makes the climax so much better.
Avata Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
How can you guys be so slow?(cleaning some holes and type some text)Raw is out for days now…. Sighs… Why isn’t there another group translating this great manga. Am i the only one whining about this? haha
Xan Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
It is you who doesn’t understand the story and missed a key part. Guts is a normal human who struggles against what should be his fate. That’s the whole theme of the manga. It would be generic and lame if he had a hidden power that puts him above others or he was some kind of chosen one or his dad was actually God or something.

The Dragonslayer and Berserker armour on the other had are far from normal.
Dequer Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
An argument:
If Guts is human, then Guts is natural.
If Guts is supernatural, then Guts is not natural.
If battling with a sword weighing more than 250 pounds is supernatural, then Guts is supernatural.
A conclusion:
So, if battling with a sword weighing more than 250 pounds is supernatural, Guts is not human.

A conditional proof:
Assume, battling with a sword weighing more than 250 pounds is supernatural.
Since battling with a sword weighing more than 250 pounds is supernatural, Guts is supernatural.
Since Guts is supernatural, Guts is not natural.
Since Guts is not natural, Guts is not human.
So, if battling with a sword weighing more than 250 pounds is supernatural, Guts is not human.

A comment:
So, if I now assume that Guts’s sword weighs more than 250 pounds I may conclude, by deduction (from conditional proof) , that Guts is not human.

A lexical definition:
supernatural: of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

thanks e.g.
Arto Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
Gutts is so strong because his father wasn’t (isn’t) human or something..! 0.0
DeMs Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
…all well and good as long a question leads us to better ones; instead of a final answer

I’ve been thinking again about this whole Griffith being the host of Caska’s progeny (voluntarily said it that way despite the Skull Knight saying it is Caska’s and Gutt’s child; you never know when that guy is speaking in cues or being really concrete)

By reading about the dead mother giving birth to a human being was said to be bad luck and ill news in medieval folklore (also mentioned in the manga) Gutts truly was bad luck if you think about it. Seeing how tough he is, he really is part of a “dark prophecy”… But anyhoo back to Gutts mumma.

I’m starting to wonder if there will be a twist of sorts about Griffith/Femto, Caska, Gutts this cloudy child and… well, Gutts mother – and something called Time, loop… The Skull Knight mentioned that this child was of evil essence and that it was his choice. I’m really, really wondering about some sort of “disturbance of Time and Space” here. But I know I like trying to let my imagination go a bit too off. What do you guys think?
Lone Wolf Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
It’s true that Gutts is changed because of his double life: physical/spirtiual.And yes,the dark aura around the sword,but one’s strength comes from inside.Yes he may have inhuman physical strength,he may have a cursed armor…But whit no reason to swing the sword…Why should one live?He tried to avenge the hawks…it took him 2 years to realise that this revenge can’t be done.The Skull Knight warned him…He has to choose between Caska and the revenge.Well I can’t say that it’s beter now when he choose to cure Caska…just look in how deep shit he is and meantime Griffith little by little reaches his goal.So unfair but in the end this ain’t some fairy tail.
Harkan Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Hell….its about time…..soon
BigBonk Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
On a side note, Farnese has cute tits
InterRage Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
yes, I agree tits all the way.
Rainfall Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Next 192 chapter release is 22 december..
Pibgorn Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
What if Gutts’ mother or father was an apostle? What if it was Zodd? Check Gutts and Zodd hair…
Nazghoul Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
Well, It seems even if Griffith becomes King of Midland …Which he definetly will. Gatts and Co will be marked as traitors for wanting to kill him. We all know what’s happened since the Knights of the holy chains and the shit that happened at the Tower. The people are ignorant and quickly believe anything. Griffith will be their savior. A “Jesus” for say, and they will all be against Gatts and Co. So one wonders how will they even get close to him.
Nazghoul Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
And about the sword weighting too much. If Arnold Schwartz can’t lift it and swing it nobody can. lol
Mr.E Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
@ Dequer

your logic is flawed, you committed a classic Non sequitur, it is true that logic can follow from “Since battling with a sword weighing more than 250 pounds is supernatural” to “Guts is supernatural” because no ordinary human can carry such a weight and therefore must have supernatural powers, but you conclusion does not follow logically having supernatural powers does not mean that he is not human, because you could be a human who has gained supernatural powers but maintained their humanity(humanity in literal sense) therefore your argument can only be that guts it supernatural and therefore superhuman, but you can’t logically conclude that he is inhuman

also the first argument you made the premise that
“If Guts is human, then Guts is natural”
then by following that premise you could say that
a mage uses magic
magic is not natural
therefore magi are not natural
therefore magi are not human

but in many popular stories magi are indeed human
therefore your premise must be false

now that is correct deductive logic
FallenTitan Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
@ Mr.E

Yet Goto the blacksmith did say that no human could wield his masterpiece (during the assault at Goto’s house during guts training)

Also, correct me if i’m wrong but isn’t magic supposed to be the use and manipulation of nature’s elements? (fire/wind/etc)
thus a mage uses nature’s magic
nature’s magic is of course natural
therefore magi are natural
therefore they are human

BUT, the use of dark arts (like apostles) are not natural
thus apostles are not natural
and so they aren’t (and they REALLY aren’t) human.

i see things like this IMHO
anal_blast Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
I approve of BigBonk’s contribution.

cok guzel :p

I think we are safe to assume EG are working on translation and cleaning the RAW, although i expected a mention by PSI29 like usual.

Berserk scanlations are like Guiness ;p
Mr.E Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
@ FallenTitan

firstly only some magics are elemental,
secondly USING magic is never natural even if they use natural elements. a human can not naturally control the elements just with their minds, if they could they would be considered supernatural

definition of magic by the way is
“Any art that invokes supernatural powers”
schizo420aoe Says:
November 10th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
Does anyone know where to get the raw from?
brianl08 Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 12:09 am
About Guts’ “enhanced powers from eclipse”, i think some of you are not looking clearly into the message the skull knight and all those other smart guys are trying to convey.
Guts’ doesn’t have superpowers, he’s lived through the eclipse because skull knight saved his ass.
Guts has “gained powers from the eclipse” because he gained so much hate against Griffith that he has willpower that is stronger than any other being. Also he fights against his fate everyday (monsters and shit at night) which obviously makes him tough as shit.
The author tries to show that with willpower you can do anything: Fight against monsters, god, and fate.
And if Guts had passive powers that exceeded human beings, that would go against the whole theme of berserk.
“Human Vs. God”
so i really really think that really, Guts has absolutely. positively has NOOOOOOOOOOOOO SUPER POWERS.
TeArs Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 2:06 am
CANT WAIT FOR THE NEXT CHAPTER^^
neteaerertatatatata Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 2:49 am
how could any of you say that Guts’ has superpowers or he’s secretly someone special?
the whole theme of the manga is “Human vs. God”
there’s connotations everywhere in this manga and people shouldn’t take every sentence literally such as when skull knight says the branded ones were “empowered”
he meant because of their cruel fate and their survival of the fate they would be propelled to fight everyday and gain strength mentally and physically as a result of being in constant danger.
Gnat Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 3:59 am
Haha reading these silly logical arguments gave me a few chuckles.
If you feed a steer growth hormones, and it develops oversized organs…is it organic beef? What beef isn’t organic? …

If people seriously want to discuss logic, mastering semantics might be a start. “Natural” is word with many complex meanings. (13 definitions under adjective and 5 for noun if you google it and click definition)
Supernatural (another word with several definitions) is not really an antonym of natural…unnatural would be a better choice.

The ability of a bodybuilder to flex 600 muscles at once (while grossing us out with his thong) might be considered unnatural. I wouldn’t consider the ability supernatural, nor would I consider the bodybuilder anything other than a human.

Making comparisons from different works of fiction seems kind of silly also…since concepts like magic and supernatural frequently vary significantly from each other, not to mention the banal reference point of reality.
What universes do you want to compare? How about Warhammer3K and Harry Potter for some contrast…

And one more stick in the spokes for all of us English readers who think sticking within the Berserk context supplied by Miura will be enough for a rational discussion…we have to interpret and deal with a translation that may not capture the complete meaning of a saying (no offense to EG)

The most rational of you is still 1000 years to young to contend with my supreme logic.

I think its time for some Razzleberry pie…
mmmmm….Razzleberry pie…..now that is magic
Adavanter Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 6:01 am
Well even though some of us obviously disagree. I think we can all agree that Berserk is one amazing Manga. I had the privilege about a year and a half ago to read it in it’s entirety up until this point. No other manga has stirred my emotions like this one. It actually taught me a few things about myself! I know that sounds like a crazy rant but I mean it. It’s actually one of the first Manga I read as well… and even though I’ve read easily over 50 different series now… Berserk is still my favorite with characters I truly care for. An amazing feat.

Also I’ve never thanked Evil Genius for all the selfless work they do for us.

So Thank you very much for not only Berserk but a high quality version at that. Sorry for the sappy post!
krazyivan Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 7:43 am
@justpassing (110.) I’m not sure but I think that Gutts gave his behelit to the Skull Knight for that deep-throat trick with the sword
@Avata(120.) there are other scanlation groups that do berserk sometimes faster than EG, but if you prefer high quality pictures(scanned and cleaned properly) and proper translation -shut up and wait as we all do. Appreciate EG’s team hard work or go bitch somewhere else. It’s our privilege that those people their time and effort to provide us with quality manga scanlations not a right.
@Arto(123.) You’re implying that Gutts could have an apostle dady(if they can have children(??)). That is actualy the most interesting berserk theory that I’ve heard in some time…
@all I think this ‘Gutts is a superpowered superhero …or not’ debate is leading nowhere and frankly it’s starting to get boring.Maybe he has special powers, maybe is just an experienced swordsman, maybe both, BUT he is the bloody main character of a dark fantasy oriented manga so the is no way for him to be an ordinary Joe who plants cabbages in his grandmothers back yard!
Phireo Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 9:15 am
The Dragonslayer does NOT weight 250 pounds.

His previous sword, three times thicker (as said by himself)and a little longer than a normal one should have been five times the weight of a normal medieval two-handed sword (around 4 lbs and more) or three times the average claymore (about 6 lbs and more), so his previous sword… at most 20 pounds, 16 would be more realistic. Now make it half a foot longer and double the width. Also add half an inch in thickness. 20 pound, add the increment in length, 3 pounds, double, then multiply by the half inch which should be 25% of the actual thickness of his previous sword…
[ (20 + 3) * 2 * 125% = 57.5 pounds ]

So the weight should vary from 50 lbs to 100 lbs at most. Now, before you flame me about it, just think HOW THE HELL could the noble wimps in the Holy Chain transport it, and two of even carried (per say) Gatsu. Even Isidoro lifted it (only a side).
How much can a child lift? 250 pounds? Even only half of it… 120 lbs? I do not think so!
I did not study much physics, so I cannot give you the exact numbers… but, by how much is the force multiplied at the end of the 70 lbs and 6.5 feet long sword?

About him becoming superhuman. Well, yes. He definitely cannot be judged as a “normal” human being. But the only things he gained is a sixth sense about supernatural stuff and a fair load of muscles. His sword did, however, got enchanted.
He could kill and touch spirits because they ARE material. They just reside in another plane of existence. Thanks to the brand/mark he constantly moves in another plane, the one nearest to the “human” world, while at the same time it calls the spirits to the same plane where he is. But the brand does not affect only him, but a certain area, centered on him, let’s say his height in cm multiplied per 50, so around 90 meters. When two cursed being come into proximity. So that both brands affect each other, they begin to multiply each other’s power of effect. Around 91 m for Gatsu and 82 m for Caska (Let’s say). Multiply it and now you have more than 7 kms. This applies only to the range of effect and not the power of the monsters summoned, only the number of them.

Killing them along with the Apostles, which are still of the material world(“demonized humans”), enchanted the sword, so now he can even cut magical beings like the Emperor’s image.

Normal weapons do not affect the spirits or the Trolls, but Serpico could harm the Kelpie with his normal sword, but not kill it. Wonder if silver would have had any effect.

The armor does not make Gatsu age. It drained him of too much energy, which had produced the whitening of his hair. This can happen in real life mind you, it is only very unlikely to happen from mere fatigue (usually you black out).

And if you have not noticed, Griffith, despite what he says, has some feelings for both Gatsu and Caska, derived ONLY from the love of their child for them. When Griffith became Phemt/Femto, all those trivial feelings became nothing, went away, were crushed, destroyed!
Caska was genuinely surprised and for most part happy when she saw Griffith. It is not obvious if it is either the memory for him or the feeling towards her child. Crazy people who cannot think, ration normally, consciously, have their ability to feel enchanted.

So… new chapter out?

No flames about any spelling errors or miss-typings, please.

Phireo
Lost_echos Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 10:36 am
i so cant wait to read it
Aetherfukz Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 11:55 am
In reply to 93:

“Since Guts battles with a sword weighing more than 250 pounds, he is supernatural.
Since Guts is supernatural, he is not natural.
Since Guts is not natural, he is not human.”

May I point you to the wikipedia pages about logical fallacies? Especially – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_premise
Aetherfukz Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Oh and in reply to 120:

“How can you guys be so slow?(cleaning some holes and type some text)Raw is out for days now…. Sighs… Why isn’t there another group translating this great manga. Am i the only one whining about this? haha”

How about you learn japanese, learn to read kanji, learn to use Photoshop, and then straighen out scans, remove kanji over some background, stamp the background, and then put the new text over it? (And probably some other steps I don’t know about / forgot).
Dude, do you have any idea what these guys do for free because they just love the manga? I just recently bought the german Berserk mangas. And they are full of grammatical errors, sometimes they left an english sentence in there, and the worst: Whenever there is text not in speech bubbles, they just paint a fat black rectangle over it and put the german text in. And those guys get payed for the work…
NovA Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
umm..

Its obvious some of you don’t understand this story or Gattsu, and its also very obvious some of you just simply don’t understand simple physics.

First this is imaginary story so all and every argument is hypothetical. Gattsu isn’t supernatural in it’s context. The man seems to be well over 6.4 feet tall in the manga and extremely bulky. His weight not being stated anywhere, makes it hard to tell but for someone who knows a little about Body Building/Strength Physical training can give you a fair estimation…which would be something around 260 pounds+. Now the sword he’s wielding in this manga is definitely unheard of although similar weapons ,being much smaller and thinner ,such as Flamberge were used in European medieval times by the Germans, is effective if utilized correctly.

Not just anyone could wield a surf board sized sword like that. Simply because of its weight ratio to the person wielding it. Now depending on the race the average human male can weight anywhere from 150-190 pounds and around 5’8 to 6’1 in height. Being your not overweight/obese.This is probably more a European characteristic but since this takes place in European based time its simply a logical comparison.

How is all this relevant to the argument of these berserk ,so called, “fans”?

A person of his size and physical attributes can (not without ease) wield something even heavier…its a simple matter of physics. He uses is sword kind of like a war hammer or and an axe. The weight of the sword is actually most of his cutting power. If a sword like gattsu’s simply dropped on your arm, depending on how sharp it is, it could easily cut to the bone of your leg. The amount of momentum generated by the initial burst of motion of someone as strong and skillful as Gattsu is enough to effectively use the swords weight and sharpness to cut through almost anything being armor,stone,metal. Oh yes and humans? :S
But you have to be a crazy person like Gattsu to throw swings of such sheer power multiple times…most would probably have, as someone mentioned, back pain or any kind of joint related problems. Gattsu doesn’t have the luxury of stopping because of his wounds or pain he feels…thats who he is.

Now body builders can lift/manipulate much heavier weights then Gattsu’s sword. In this manga gatsu’s physical state is one thats much stronger then most body builders. Keep in mind the strongest people in the world are not necessarily considered body builders although their training uses the same methods. We all know that Gattsu’s size and mass isn’t just for show. He’s muscles are the result of years of sword,weight,cardio,endurance training someone would experience in an army such as the one was apart of. The Band of the White hawk..oooo~ >_>. Even if the sword weighed 130 pounds which is not normal for a sword and probably not the actual weight of that sword in question but someone like our champ would be able to throw it around quite fast. With practice those strikes would become much more accurate slices. It does however have a slower attack rate between each swing then say a normal European bastard sword or 2 handed custom sword (obviously those swords are much lighter). Its purpose is to slice through harder material and to take down multiple enemies with one blow. His sword ,The Dragon Slayer, is perfect for that in concept. But only a man like gattsu can do it .

WHY? CAUZ HES DA MAN!

The point is my friend’s… Gattsu is aware of the burden of such a heavy sword but as far as he can remember he has carried the weight of his sword even as a child…a man swords weights more then most can bare…yet his will to survive pushes his body to the extreme every single time and every time he swings that gigantic piece of iron slab he does it with every fiber of his body and being. With every inch of strength is he has left. That is the weight he carries. Now is learning of the weight of those he cares about. Is swords weight is nothing in comparison .
Samael Daemon Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
I totally agree with Eatherfucks… Avata, comment 120..
must be at most ten years old.. seriously. I’ve never seen
such wonderful english in any manga translation in my life.
you guys at Evil-Linux must be deans and professors the whole bunch of you. quality stuff. if you would read a comercial translation… it would simply just ruin the experience. one of the most stupid things i’ve ever heard for instance is the naruto “Shadow clone” (by internet translation), turns in to “Shadow doppelganger” in the official translation. I mean caaamaaaaaan, why not call it “Shadow Look-alike” while you’re at it. And the cleaning and editing up part of a RAW. sure is a pain in the ass. I would know since i’m a part time graphics designer.
Sijy Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
After skimming through all of that I have a few things:

On Gutts powers, he might have elvish roots(with the pointy ears), he is much stronger than any other human, since he’s been fighting with larger swords his entire life, he does have a foot in the etheral world with his Brand, he might have some powers from the Behelit (SK uses his to make a sweet sword). So the “Beli” might be park of Gutts inner demon theme that’s been going on for a while.

What I hope happens: that one Kushin assassin who fought Gutts way back when gutts saved the hunted hawks is hopefully going to flee the Griffith/Emperor battle and team up with Gutts, Rickert and the girl will have to be saved from the new Griffith kingdom, and Gutts meets others like him (3 others besides him and SK might exist…). One thing is that when Griffith finally does fight gutts, he’s a master planner and knows gutts berserkness, but will Roderick or Serpico be an equal to Griffith in strategy (or even the elf king…).
Aetherfukz Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Well actually I think shadow doppelganger sounds more sinister (as would be fitting for a ninja, but I don’t know Naruto) than shadow clone.

A doppelganger or fetch is the ghostly double of a living person, a sinister form of bilocation.

[...] They are generally regarded as harbingers of bad luck. In some traditions, a doppelgänger seen by a person’s friends or relatives portends illness or danger, while seeing one’s own doppelgänger is an omen of death. In Norse mythology, a vardøger is a ghostly double who precedes a living person and is seen performing their actions in advance.

Anyway, all this discussion probably happens only because we are all so eager to get our next dose of Berserk
Samael Daemon Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Even if you think is sounds as the most awsome name in manga history, It still isin’t right for the situation.
Shadow clones are basically a bunch of exact copies (usually from 1 to 100) of
(in this case Naruto El Gran Puto) who die by one hit.

If they where to be like you describe them. One would single-handedly be able to annihilate Griffith’s entire army with his hands tied behind his back and a buttplug applied.

Ah and speaking of buttpluggs, I just rememberd something
very important to the description of Gatts Super strength.

The rape by a huge black man (dont look at me like that, it was miura who drew it for heavens sake) when he was a young boy. and according to most japanese mangas from what I have noticed a rape makes a charachter some how more powerful. just look att hellsing, Alucard was raped by a huge man as well, I think it was some kind of high ranking official from the ottoman empire. Can someboy explain to me what the
deal with rape in manga culture If i got it wrong?
psi29a Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
Mystic is working on the translation as I type this. Real life commitments make it difficult sometimes, but it is his baby and he has said he will work on it till either he or Miura dies.
Samael Daemon Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
I’m honored to have postet a message just prior to psi29a,
(and after) the great news, and no. I’m not kissing ass.
Its too far away.
shcnoff Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
the dark horse english translation isn’t so bad. but it definitely takes a long time to come out. if you speak english you should buy it. and go to hell avata, if someone did a speed scanlation of this manga it would still be more informative to just look at the raw. look at the band of the hawks. its just (cleaned up)poop. whenever it comes to story exposition, you need to be very careful and take your time, comparing your interpretations with others when the best meaning for a word or phrase isn’t obvious. anyone can translate all the ikuzo’s and YATTA’s in a half hour, then slap together the meaty sentences using a kanji guide and dictionary. but then the words are all jumbled and make no sense. if you can’t wait, the raw is not hard to find. if you can wait for quality, let’s all give eg a big thank you and encourage them with praise.

as for the nature vs magic issue, i wouldn’t say its impossible for a human to wield a 250 lb sword, but the hilt needs to be made of something other than iron, right? or it will bend/break. and the human just needs to be very strong. goto did say the reason he was a hermit, was that the dragonslayer was used to kill a dragon, and the power of his sword was feared by the kingdom he came from. so it seems that the king was able to find someone capable of using it. guts used to train with his old broadswords using extra weight, and i think miura smartly showed over the course of the golden age arc how guts was always preparing to get a bigger and bigger sword as he grew into a fully matured muscle-man. when he first started using the dragonslayer as well as whenever he is extremely fatigued or badly wounded, he is more like throwing the sword and being dragged behind it. so i don’t think miura is showing us that guts has supernatural strength. although he is definitely in a supernatural condition since the eclipse, and its pretty explicit that the rules of fate don’t apply to guts, possibly because he was born outside of human fate. don’t forget the time when slan cut him in half, or when femto got his “hands” on him during the count’s death scene in volume three. everyone in the god hand was like, “this joker is still breathing?” that’s because the idea of evil grants the god hand the power of fate, and the apostles to a lesser extent, so that their power comes not only from their monstrous bodies and abilities, but also from their authority to decide the fate of man. i think schierke was more aksing the question, “is he stronger because he lives in the hazama, or can he live in the hazama only because he’s strong?”

also, i thought guts was on his revenge quest for three years?

the ragin’ debates always happen at this time because we’re all anxious to see the new chapter, and it helps move the time along. also it’s helpful to refresh our memory of the manga’s history before reading the new chapter.
Aetherfukz Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Concerning the Naruto special move name. As I said I don’t know Naruto (saw 2-3 episodes on german television, and regarded it as Dragonball Z with Ninjas ), but your argument sounds reasonable.

And if getting raped gives special powers… hmm… wouldn’t that make Caska like a fighting goddess? Now that I think about it she took down those 3 wannabe rapers naked and without a weapon, and with the brain of a 3 year old pretty much.

When she gets back her memories she sure is gonna kick butt!
Quirinus Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
<3 thanks for the update! Any wild guess on end of the translation?

1 2 3 4 … days?
vashfanatic Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
A lot of people have said that the Dragon Slayer is enchanted, but so far I can’t recall where the text would have said that. Can somebody give me the chapter so that I can get on the same page as everyone else?

Also…. who used the Dragon Slayer before Guts? Goto is intentionally vague, he says “Don’t ask me how but the dragon was killed,” which doesn’t even say who killed it! I’m hoping someday Miura will give the whole backstory to that (along with having some real dragons). Maybe it will clear some of our confusion up?
shcnoff Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
i can’t remember the chapter but it’s during the troll/enoch village episode.

the dark horse english translation isn’t bad. but it definitely takes a long time to come out. if you speak english you should buy it. go to hell avata, if someone did a speed scanlation of this manga it would still be more informative to just look at the raw. look at the band of the hawks. its just (cleaned up)poop. whenever it comes to story exposition, you need to be very careful and take your time, comparing your interpretations with others when the best meaning for a word or phrase isn’t obvious. anyone can translate all the ikuzo’s and YATTA’s in a half hour, then slap together the meaty sentences using a kanji guide and dictionary. but then the words are all jumbled and make no sense. if you can’t wait, the raw is not hard to find. if you can wait for quality, let’s all give eg a big thank you and encourage them with praise.
shcnoff Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
as for the nature vs magic issue, i wouldn’t say its impossible for a human to wield a 250 lb sword, but the hilt needs to be made of something other than iron, right? or it will bend/break. and the human just needs to be very strong. goto did say the reason he was a hermit, was that the dragonslayer was used to kill a dragon, and the power of his sword was feared by the kingdom he came from. so it seems that the king was able to find someone capable of using it. guts used to train with his old broadswords using extra weight, and i think miura smartly showed over the course of the golden age arc how guts was always preparing to get a bigger and bigger sword as he grew into a fully matured muscle-man. when he first started using the dragonslayer as well as whenever he is extremely fatigued or badly wounded, he is more like throwing the sword and being dragged behind it.
shcnoff Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
i wouldn’t say it’s impossible for a human to wield a 250 lb sword, but the hilt needs to be made of something other than iron, right? or it will bend/break. and the human just needs to be very strong. goto did say the reason he was a hermit, was that the dragonslayer was used to kill a dragon, and the power of the sword was feared by the kingdom he came from. so it seems that the king was able to find someone capable of using it. guts used to train with his old broadswords using extra weight, and i think miura smartly showed over the course of the golden age arc how guts was always preparing to get a bigger and bigger sword as he grew into a fully matured muscle-man. when he first started using the dragonslayer as well as whenever he is extremely fatigued or badly wounded, he is more like throwing the sword and being dragged behind it. so i don’t think miura is showing us that guts has supernatural strength. although he is definitely in a supernatural condition since the eclipse, and it’s pretty explicit that the rules of fate don’t apply to guts, possibly because he was born outside of human fate. don’t forget the time when slan cut him in half, or when femto got his “hands” on him during the count’s death scene in volume three. everyone in the god hand was like, “this joker is still breathing?” that’s because the god hand wields the power of fate, and the apostles too, to a lesser extent, so that their power comes not only from their monstrous bodies and abilities, but also from their authority to decide the fate of man. i think schierke was asking the question, “is he stronger because he lives in the hazama, or can he live in the hazama only because he’s strong?”

also, i thought guts was on his revenge quest for three years?

the raging debates always happen at this time because we’re all anxious to see the new chapter, and it helps move the time along. also it’s helpful to refresh our memory of the manga’s history before reading the new chapter.
shcnoff Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
but don’t forget the time when slan cut him in half, or when femto got his “hands” on him during the count’s death scene in volume three. everyone in the god hand was like, “this joker is still breathing?” i think it’s because the god hand wields the power of fate, and the apostles too, to a lesser extent, so that their power comes not only from their monstrous bodies and abilities, but also from their authority to decide the fate of man.

i think schierke was asking the question, “is he stronger because he lives in the hazama, or can he live in the hazama only because he’s strong?”

also, i thought guts was on his revenge quest for three years?

the raging debates always happen at this time because we’re all anxious to see the new chapter, and it helps move the time along. also it’s helpful to refresh our memory of the manga’s history before reading the new chapter.
Sheepy-Pie Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Maybe Gatts’ strength and general ability to not die is partially through his parents.. Cause all we know about them is that his mother was hung.. Not very informative. But then if his mother was not human or something in any way, it would give her a reason to be hung in the first place (Although she could have been hung for simpler reasons). And seeing as things from before his birth are being introduced (like who [although we most likely know he was Gaseric] SK was and the fact he is using the Berserker’s armour) maybe something about his parentage will come up….. But then, SK could be his father!!! And that would be funny and crap at the same time.
tito Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
so when is caska getting rape again?
Leduca Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Guts is certenly going the same path as Skull Knight once did with the Berserk armor and all. I supose that because the SK told the old witch in one of the chapters that the Berserker armor belonged to him at one point. But I would realy like to know what the hell is “Skully” doing when Guts is beating and bleeding the Apostols? Miura should add some chapters about the SK don’t you think? I mean the guy just pops out of the thin air and eats an apostol egg to what cause? I would like to know if he is the former king of princess Sharlotes kingdome (her great-great gradfather or whatever) since there were a lot of corpses under the dungeon with the sacrificial insignia where Griffith was kept, and he’s been batteling the Apostols for a very long time and knows a lot about Femto too. Or maybe he was also an Apostol just turned rebbelious?
Mr.E Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
people i don’t think you guys live in reality

gutt’s sword isn’t hollow or something it’s pure iron thats a density of 7.86 g·cm−3 gutts is about 180 to 190 cm tall and his sword. the sword would be about 170 cm long minus the hilt (all together the dragon slayer is about the same size as he is, maybe longer) plus the sword is wide and i mean wide for sword standards at the base it’s half his shoulder width and it only narrows slightly i’d say about 30 cm i’ll drop it down to and even 20 to account for the narrowing, then the dragon slayer so also extremely thick about 4 to 3 cm thick say an even 2.5 to account of the sharpens edges ok some thats 170*20*2.5= 8500 cm-3 ok times that by 7.86 and its 66,810 grams 66.81 kgs times that by 2.2 and you have 146.987 pounds (for those of you still using the imperial system) now yes a ordinary human can lift that easily but you are forgetting that the weight isn’t the issue here the leverage and the muscles used are. remember that guts is manipulating the whole sword with the hilt, now using both hands( which gutts can’t do remember but i’ll get to that) the force arm (the hilt with the force placed where his lowest hand is) is short as about ten to five centimeters (the fulcrum is his other hand) which makes the resistance arm the whole 170 cm (remember i didn’t account for the hilt in my previous determination of the length of the sword)

now for some physics the equation for mechanical advantage is the length of the force arm(FL) multiplied by the force(FF) imparted on it equals the length of the resistance arm (RL) multiplied be the force imparted on the force arm (FR)
therefore
FL*FF=RL*FR
or
RL*FR/FL=FF
therefore
(1.7*(9.8*66.81))/0.1= 11,130.546 Newtons

thats a mean feat for any normal human and thats just to keep the sword upright to move it up would require more force (66.81 N more to accelerate it 1 ms-2) more than a normal human can achieve.

but it gets better in many of the arcs gutts can manipulate his sword with ease with just one HAND, which means not only the resistance arm is shortened but he is using just his wrist flexors to do all the work (NOW THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE) by any standard (to get a general idea holding a 20kg bar requires 196 newtons, of course these calculations assume all of the weight is at the tip of the sword which offers exaggerated results but you get the general idea)

@ novA
also Farnese uses magic in berserk and is human
thus under berserk rules humans can be supernatural
InterRage Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
When she’s good and ready.

post.154
Well, this is the internet. Where ass kissing is quicker than ever.
DeMs Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
For the rape stuff: it’s not giving you some power, whether a big man or not. And it’s certainly not an edge… Just take a few steps back, put yourself in the head of the victim and consider the situation, his analysis and feelings:

He was SOLD by his adopting father, which he had always loved despite his rough attitude towards him and did all he could to get his esteem. Not only that, but for a PUNY amount of money. Now that’s harsh.

He was not raped by “a big black man”, he was raped by somebody that he considered as a comrade since they were in the same mercenary band. He was raped with very little, if not 0 odds to fight back in order to prevent this dreadful deed to happen.

As a heterosexual, he was raped by a man, not a women. That’s another thing.

So to sum up, upon the rape he felt: powerless, unconsidered by his adopting father, frustrated, betrayed.

That goes along with the “common” psychological scars inflicted upon a person. Depending from the condition of a rape that I won’t bother explaining; a person instead of developing a never ending thirst of vengeance from a deep aggravating scar in his mind that will ALWAYS remain in most of the cases, he could have perceived it in a way different direction.

Now not only that but he saw Caska get raped by his best friend. Man just THAT and I would be already *ucknuts and do whatever I could to kill the guy in the worst way possible and as slow as I could if nobody would manage to reason me out. So with all of that and the rest of everything that has happened in Gutts life, hell yeah I would feel as psychotic as he could be when he gets into a hard fight.

I mean it must feel good slashing through monsters with all of that, but the vengeance and ego just doesn’t has enough to get better and it asks for more and more and more…

I’m sad though nobody seemed interested in trying to imagine some connections with Gatts dead mother + his child, caska and griffith Come on let the imagination go free here ^^
Mister Mon Says:
November 11th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
So I was kinda bored of waiting and checked out another group’s release. I read the first page and I couldn’t take the lousy English translation of it. I stopped there and just deleted the file, remembering why I choose to wait for EG. Not only is EG more professional, but it sure doesn’t sound like a Chinese baby did the translation.(Yes, a Chinese baby, you heard me!) Live long and strong EG.
Arto Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 3:12 am
to 143 krazyivan

Well, something like that. Skully once said that Guts and Caskas child choose a demonic nature, which means it could have chosen to be human… Maybe Guts once choose to be human when his father wasn’t. Something like that =) What I’m actually thinkig is that we may learn about Guts father in the future and there may be a surprise there.
***
About his sword… It’s heavy for sure, but no one said It’s made of steel! Seing what kinds of hits he can block with it, holding it by the weakest part – the hilt… Since it didn’t break yet I assume It’s made of some rare metal from the gnome mines. I remember Goto saying, that his place was near the gnome mines (or was it Skully?).
Gnat Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 3:52 am
Why solve physics problems in fantasy with magic…be creative and add new materials unlike those on earth to your fiction!
I like yer thinking Arto…
Of course Oto didn’t use cheap worthless ferrous based steel…he used mithril…or adamantium…or something wonderfully strong and light that cuts through armor like butter.
Of course if it really is impossible as some of you are suggesting, then Gats might be in trouble if his pouting, inner spirit puppy gives up on him.
“You won’t let me take over? Well just try to lift that sword without me!”
If you want to have a conversation about physics…go watch Noein! I think it is the only manga/anime I have seen that has ever paid attention to physics.
Aetherfukz Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 4:18 am
Dunno if it is accurate, but a lot of times it is said that the Dragonslayer is made of a slab of iron, I think even Goto said it.

And arguing physics in a fantasy setting is kinda pointless. How would you explain the sky and earth chaning suddenly when the eclipse happened? How would you explain that Guts can open and close his left arm? How would you explain that all of ones wounds get healed in no time when fairy dust is applied?

Suspension of Disbelief it is called.

And on a sidenote: Griffith as Femto “demonified” the unborn child of Caska and Guts at the eclipse, and was later reborn into that body. Does that make Griffith his own father and his own son?
Wickian Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 4:38 am
Noein is a pretty descent series I think. As for Berserk, I don’t think the physics are THAT messed up. They’re just the physics of a different world, plus there are some freakishly strong people in real life capable of doing things that seem physically impossible anyway. There’s way’s for muscles to be way stronger than their size would normally also.
Chrisso Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 5:11 am
Stop trying to sound smart by spouting engineering/physics principles.
It’s ridiculous to analyze it in real-world terms since its clearly fantasy. Even if it were real its still plausible for any number of reasons e.g. genetic makeup.
zombie Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 5:16 am
roofles… applying real world physics to a comic book about magic and demons… a bit extreme but to each his own.

another reason why you can say guts is more normal than abnormal is the fact that the owl girl can use magic. everyone in the world of berserk can potentially tap into the astral plane and the farnese(sp?) learning magic is proof of that. it’s just a matter of how much a person’s mind/spirit is in tune with the astral world. dwarfs make the berserker armor after all. guts was unaware of his own connection between these two worlds and as result created a demonic sword from of it. anywho, some of you seem to think this sword is the reason he can kill apostles which i believe to be wrong. guts kills them and the sword just makes it easier. him and griffith were able to cut zodd’s arm off long before the book got heavy with the magic stuff.
Mr.E Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 5:39 am
@ Gnat & Arto

what atomic number does these new elements have?
just kidding they could be compounds anyway like steel

the problem is the lighter they are the less momentum they will have for example at 30kg moving at 2ms-1 it has a momentum of 60kg ms-1 rather than having 120 if it weighed 60Kg, of course it would be easier to move it if it had less mass for the same reason therefore it would go faster with the same amount of force applied the problem is that human muscles have a limit to there speed, so beyond a point you would lose efficiency.

but regardless he still jumps superhuman heights for example when he was fighting the sorcerer, no one can blame that on light weight material, and the berserk armor just lets him get to the limit of human endurance the operative word being “human” the physics of human muscles won’t allow for that, unless your suggesting the armor and his sword are less dense than air( which would make them float, which clearly doesn’t happen before you say that maybe i am)

plus once again guts being able to use his spirit to affect the physical shouldn’t make him less worth of our admiration, it’s still him, still HIS spirit burdened by living in both worlds that has adapted and become stronger.

final thought
this is a fantasy but we can only assume it works the same way our world does but plus magic, we can see that all other humans in the berserk universe are bound to the same laws as us but why not guts as well, why are gut’s muscle capible of defying physics when others in the same universe are bound to it

true the manga is about guts surviving on his own against the odds, but holding on to his humanity does not mean he can not get stronger spiritually. i think that is the concept of the manga how long can guts struggle for the power to gain his revenge without losing his humanity, will the beasts ego destroy his humanity or rather will guts accept his true dark nature? who knows what is in store for him

(sorry if this is posted twice but an error occurred when i submitted it and it didn’t show up in the comments please just delete one of them if there is two, thanks)
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 9:28 am
SPOILER ALERT: Guts is the child conceived of Charles Atlas and a tub of creatine powder.

Actually, the most likely possibility for the identity of Guts’ father that I proposed, several times mind you, was immediately shot down as being nothing more than guesswork. If you asked me, I would say it is most likely that Skull Knight is Guts’ father. He has, in a matter of speaking, taken care of Guts since after the eclipse (guiding him along his journey), and he also rescued Guts and Caska from the eclipse, no mean feat for anyone. If you must believe that Guts is of demonic or partially demonic parentage, like some sort of Inuyasha thing, than I would prefer to believe that Skull Knight is the father, and not void or one of his peers. Just because.
Arto Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 10:00 am
2 Reginald Funkenstein

Yep, sounds totally possible! And I wonder if Skully had fooled around with Flora as well That would make Shirieke Guts’ sister! Nice! =)
InterRage Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 10:26 am
ohhh, I smell incest in the air, underage even!
Turd Ferguson Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 10:51 am
Where did you ever come to the conclusion that Flora was Shirieke’s mother?
vashfanatic Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 10:56 am
I don’t think having super powers means that you are supernatural. For one thing, what counts as “natural” in a world with elves, trolls, and Apostles? If nature is the whole universe, then everything, including magic, is natural. SO maybe it would be better to say that having super powers doesn’t automatically make you not human; it just makes you a human with powers beyond those of ordinary humans. I think we can all agree that Guts is extra-ordinary!
erfo Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 11:04 am
are you meen when we stay alone with our oun power we are in side on guts
and when we seek army we are on diferent side
what choise is corect
any chois is in our mind but evry person is in diferent time spase
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 11:27 am
actually, I’ll one up myself by saying that Guts is the product of a demonic “artificial womb” project, except that Guts is conceived in a corpse. In other words, guts is designed by demons as the perfect human within the womb of a dead woman (grotesque, I know). Guts is thus fatherless, designed by the immortals to be amongst them. Or, perhaps designed by the Skull Knight as a tool to defeat the god-hand.
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
What if it was Grunbeld that used the dragon slayer to kill the dragon that was in their kingdom, and became an apostle in order to have the power/strength to defeat it?

I just find it interesting that his apostle form is a dragon, which is apparently a fairly rare creature in that world.
DeMs Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
Guys… look up the definition of hero and say Gutts is just the hero of the manga :/

I still not believe Skully would be Gutts father… I think he saved him because as he said many things being “foretold” he does not want them to have the same fate they met (as in the sorceress and Skully himself), besides SK finds Gutts to be an ally since they both have somewhat a goal that crosses the same enemy.

I am actually not that curious about Gutts father… Sure he wasn’t even shown, but the only image we have about his mother is a dead woman hanged on a tree with a blasted stomach. I wonder if THAT had any signification in medieval folklore… We just see a silhouette, no face of her, nothing. Just hidden info.

Either learning about his mom or dad, the other one will be revealed somewhat after discovering things about either one of them.
Turd Ferguson Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
@ Reginald Funkenstein

There never was any dragon. Nobody befor Guts ever wielded the Dragon Slayer. You’re probably basing your idea on a poor translation of the chapter where Godo tells the story about the Dragon Slayer.
Pitius Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
I think Gutts is not the strongest character in this story amongst all humans(before the eclipse at least), but still one of the stronger, pretty fast , very very endurable, and skillful. Its the combination of all his attributes that made him a great warrior. Pippin’s pure raw strength for example was higher, and we’ve seen it. In the battle with Boston the strength seemed maybe equal. Captain Zondarck too. Maybe Samson was even stronger from all the above, and remember his weapon and its use of it, While holding a shield. And then we have Baakiraka. That world has other standards of what is considered normal anyway. But speaking of supernatural powers, we still have missing factors, yet to see, or not. Maybe is part of the charm to not know some things and just guess.
I am happy to read these posts between chapters, they indeed refresh memories, point clues and help with all the waiting.
We dont need conflicts and tense disagreements.
Berserk is special, and I think people that love it, are special too.
Muppet Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
@ Turd Ferguson:
“There never was any dragon. Nobody befor Guts ever wielded the Dragon Slayer. You’re probably basing your idea on a poor translation of the chapter where Godo tells the story about the Dragon Slayer.”

‘This was mine. After all, if you sent out aoilsier with a kitchen knife…
He would just get himself torn to bits.

And so, I forged this. Don’t ask how…
But the dragon was killed… By my sword.”

Hawks translation. But hey, what do I know.
Turd Ferguson Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
@ Muppet

That was the poor translation I was speaking of. No dis-respect meant to the Hawks I appreciate all the hard work they put in which allowed me to read the earlier volume before they were released by Dark Horse. But the translation is innacurrate.
Muppet Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
@ Turd Ferguson

Ah, my apologies. I only had Hawks version to go by. :<
What does he say in the proper translation?
c45j Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
and what chapter are you guys talking about?
Muppet Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Ah, sorry. =) Vol 14, Chap 93, Page 26. When they introduce Guts’ sword, the Dragon Slayer. (if that’s the correct name)
superman brian Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
It is Highly unlikely that Skully is Guts’ father because i remember that awhile ago when Guts and his friends were saving Griffith, they talked about a legend of the place where griffith was trapped, and the legend was that there was a king who conquered all of the midland or whatever and united it for the first time, and he like to wear the skull helmet, but in the end he was punished by the god hands. and at the bottom of the pit of the prison, guts’ sees corpses with the “Brand” on their heads. So skully has been living for a way longer time and cannot be Guts’ father. And also the witch at the forest and skull knight talks about their past and they talk about how they lived past a normal time.

Another thing. i think Skull knight is a branded one who used the berserkers’ armor. because the prison that held griffith was his castle and the dead bodies in the pit had brands on their head which means that people were sacrficed. and i think skull knight can’t be an apostle because he apposes them and the god hands never make any reference to his past about becoming one of them.
Thana Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Hey
ch291 is already translated – by Frankyhouse.
On onemanga.com you can read the chapter online.

Regards
anal_blast Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Frankyhouse’s translation is a little wankyhouse, though
Roland Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
Hi everybody,
I cannot wait anymore !!!!!!!
Great job, Evil Genius, keep doing nice Berserk’s translations !
Who has ever said Skully is Guts’ father? Skully is probably centuaries older than Guts. He saved Guts because it was their fates. At least, that is my opinion.
Is Guts super-human? Well, I think the author wants describe him a human who is struggling for staying human, even if he is so strong. Guts has some affinities with darkness and fairies (not his only oe paradoxe!) and the brand makes him different from others, nevertheless, he has not any special power except this ones his armor gives him.

Well, I would have prefer having a chapter about elves land and Guts
Do you think as I that Puck is a relative of Elves King?
Aetherfukz Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
What I always wondered when reading that translation… what the hell is an “aoilsier”? A fat typo of “a soldier”?
Aetherfukz Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 5:39 pm
Oh and regarding that Frankyhouse translation… what language is “The great emperor’s army of 200.000 enveloped Uritanus, and the Vatican causing devestation for the allied forces”, “Due to a decimal cavalry, in a surprise attack the great emperor was size”, “It is said that under the condition of the negotiation army was order to withdraw” and especially “So when I the news I was schock”?

Definately not english.
Stopped reading that translation after the first two pages. Can’t wait for the EG translation
Space Butler Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
can’t for the next chapter. started it from the beginning 2 weeks ago and i already managed to catch up just goes to show how great the manga.
Turd Ferguson Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
@ Muppet

I don’t want to include too much of the full official translation so as to keep EG safe from any claims of copyright violation by Dark Horse.

Basically, Godo says the king asked him to make a sword that could kill a dragon. Godo was sick of making fancy, namby-pampy swords for nobles so he made the Dragon Slayer “as described.” Godo says ” Swords are just large butcher knives after all. Tools meant for killing people. And so I forged at as described. A sword that could butcher a dragon.”

He goes on to say that he was nearly hung for making such a ridiculous and un-wieldable weapon, so he ran away from the castle town and started living in the mountains.

He specifically goes on to say that if anybody could wiled the DS (implying that nobody had), then it’d only be a hinderance.

Rickert asks him if it could kill a dragon, and Godo tells him “If there WERE any dragons,” implying that they do not exist.

For comparison, the line, “And so I forged at as described. A sword that could butcher a dragon,” from the official translation goes along with the picture of the theoretical dragon’s head cloven in two, which the Hawks translated as “And so, I forged this. Don’t ask how… But the dragon was killed… By my sword.”
Reginald Funkenstein, The Thousand Nut Buster Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
Uh… I’m so-so with my Japanese, but how would it be possible to screw up a translation so badly as to make up a conversation between Guts and Godo?

If it was improperly translated, they still should have had a decent understanding of whether or not Godo said that his sword was used to kill said dragon. I’m sorry, but even with a rudimentary understanding of japanese (I.E. whipping out the Japanese/English dictionary and checking words piecemeal) it is possible to get a good enough idea of what is going on.

And henceforth I will maintain that Guts is the product of a demonic Eugenics/Breeding program. I think that he was marked, much like Griffith, to play a major role in the world even before he was born. Perhaps as a foil to Griffith, created by the idea of God. It may very well be that Guts is exceeding or has exceeded his boundaries as a foil to Griffith, and thus has impressed even the Godhand in his evolution.

Just a wild theory, so please stay your surface-to-air missiles ;P
annull Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 6:52 pm
Thx Turd,

Cheers
IDKwhoiam Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
Dequer Says:
“A deduction:

If Guts is human then he is natural. However if Guts is supernatural then he is not natural. If Guts battles with a sword weighing more than 250 pounds then he is supernatural. Guts battles with a sword weighing more than 250 pounds. Therefore, Guts is not human.

A proof:

Since Guts battles with a sword weighing more than 250 pounds, he is supernatural.
Since Guts is supernatural, he is not natural.
Since Guts is not natural, he is not human.

supernatural: 1. of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena.”

———————————————–

Except you make a huge logical fallacy by making a false generalization stating that no human can wield a 250lb sword. Therefore your proof and deduction fall quite short of fact. And you assume that the sword weighs 250lbs. Both are enough to discredit you.
Joyrock Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
What this talk of gutts being part demon? 0.o all the chars of berserk came from dirt, sure they all had parents but there parents were normal. Gutts father is prolly hanging in the same tree as his mother. Caska was special but her parents were normal, griffths parents were normal.
Thana Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
Well…
I havent read the chapter yet. Im still waiting for a DL and I got the last chapters all here from EG, so im still desperatly waiting to finally read it. The hint to onemanga was just for the “hungry” ones

Erm, at the discussion:
Gutts is special, but for me still a normal human. He isnt stronger than other trained humans. It seems hes just the only one showing determination to fight apostles. In addition I dont think Gutts was always stronger than the apostles he downed. The major apostles he fought fell all for a trick, like the count with the priest decoy or the fairy girl distracted by a Jill in “feinted” danger.
brianl08 Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
i think the berserk’s armor’s helmet being a skull shape before Guts wore it, has something to do with skull knight, and i remember that the last bearer of the berserker armor was killed by it so there’s prabably a weird story to berserker armor
psi29a Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
@Aetherfukz: ^_^ Makes us happy to know our work is not in vain. I can’t give you all an ETA other than we are working on it now.
psi29a Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
As for translation, we have to accept that DarkHorse’ translation is final and approved by Miura. Doesn’t mean that DH got it wrong, but that in lieu of knowing Japanese, the line of trust stops with DH.
tito Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
I believe guts father is ZODD!!!!!!!
OrthanosQuest Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
EG the day I read some one else’s translation of Berserk will be the day that you stop or Mirua, and World reformations starts because you stopped translating Berserk.

Take your time, for we will wait for you guys.
psi29a Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
For those who think their is something wrong with the form submission, there isn’t a problem. Your comment got trapped in the moderating queue. Once you are approved, the site trains on your IP and email address to help keep spam out.

If you posted once, we are not ignoring you, just give us a some time to approve it.

There is no need to keep submitting multiple times, once you are tagged as spamming, all the following messages will be tagged to.

That goes for you mr. 8+ form submissions of the same thing.

Also, the use of the following automatically sticks you into the spam bucket unless you have been previously approved: ‘ u r lol !1!1!11oneoneone ‘ and similar. Quality, not quantity people.
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
Hands down, There is no way that Guts is a normal human.

Firstly, to address the claims that Guts is but a human with extreme conditioning, consider this: Guts has had an incredibly harsh life where, even as a child, there was many a time when he should have died from wounds, from shock, from fatigue, etc. If he was a normal human, the strain that he puts on his body would have killed him long before he had made it to the eclipse, and if somehow, miraculously his body could survive that, it most certainly would not be able to survive the daily torment that he would go through since becoming the black swordsman.

Secondly, one can’t be entirely certain of the entire effect, but the Berserker armor that he wears increases the strain on his body and mind, I would think, by at least a factor of two.

Thirdly, he was not swayed by the new form of Griffith. Even Caska, who arguably suffered the most torment at the hands of Griffith within the eclipse, on a subconscious level, was awed or infatuated some intangible part of Griffith. You can argue that Griffith did not gain some power of hypnotic suggestion or supernatural influence over ordinary mortals, but know that your argument is deeply fallacious. Guts, so far, has maintained his passionate hatred for Griffith, because, for one, he is not awed or enamored with Griffith, which suggests that he possesses unnatural imperviousness at the least.

Perhaps Guts has always naturally existed as an antithesis to Griffith, sort of as a Yang to Griffiths Yin (or vice versa?) at any rate, the constant forward and upward Growth of Guts’ abilities, talents, strength and power in an unabated manner is, again, inhuman.
hokujin Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 11:36 pm
*ahem* this is all i have to say.. guts = bad*ss motherf*cker
Mr.E Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 12:12 am
@ many people

where is everyone getting this idea that guts is half demon, is that based on anything at all (except his strength), also is the the elf thing just based on his ears? because i don’t think thats a reasonable assumption to make. true characters frequently say that guts has the Devils luck, but i don’t think that should be taken literally

considering that his strength while still unbelievably impressive, didn’t really leap out of the bounds of reality until after the eclipse i think it’s more likely that his spirit’s strength has developed as a result, then he is a demon of elf.

also if you read the very first few volumes (where he fights the Koka castle lord and the count) gutts strength is no where near where it is now suggesting a huge leap in strength further proof that the eclipse didn’t give him powers (because he would of had an immediate gain in strength rather than gaining more strength over time) or that he already had them because he is a demon.
Gnat Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 1:41 am
@Mr. E.
>>what atomic number does these new elements have?
It isn’t a new element per se, just a form of Helium with magitons (small subatomic particles that apply a medium force ((somewhere in between strong and weak forces)) upon other nearby atoms with magitons) thereby allowing it to assume properties similar to metal instead of a noble gas.

>>the problem is the lighter they are the less momentum they will have
In my anecdotal experience…I’ve been smacked in the face with a Wiffle Bat TM before, and it hurts. I’m just glad they don’t make Wiffle Bats TM sharp or my head might have been cut in half.

>>this is a fantasy but we can only assume it works the same way our world does but plus magic
I disagree with your assumption. You may be able to analyze it by the scientific standards of our reality with a component for magic, but I doubt manga artists thing in those terms as they do their work. If they do not it would seem silly for normal readers apply such standards.

But…I must admit that I am biased in this regard and have an affectionate weakness for unrealistic situations. I personally enjoy classic Jackie Chan movies, and as unrealistic and ludicrous as some of the choreographed scenes are (even though they are depicted as happening in our current world and may defy the realm of physics)…I still chuckle. At least once or twice.

I love this silly pre-release conversations
Arto Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 1:44 am
Here’s a theory: Guts is human, for real, no deamon fathers involved. He was just a very strong dude who pushed his physics all his life, so that’s how he became so strong and skilled. But! After the Eclipse the world began to change and merge with other dimentions, so impossible started becoming possible. Let’s say Guts reached his physical limit some time before the Eclipse. Then after the Eclipse the limits of his body advanced, so now he has space to grow stronger and better. And since the world is constantly changing, thanx to Griffith, the boundries of the impossible are pushed further alowing Guts to constantly grow.
annull Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 4:43 am
@ Arto

That seems decently plausable.
Samael Daemon Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 5:11 am
Gatts is no demon, warlock, sorcerer, devil, nosferatu, elf
dwarf, wizard, attorney or any other evil spawn for that matter.

He is the exception that prooves the rule. The step bastard child of destiny whom struggles to cut himself free of its threads.

And he is brilliant. I love him… (not in love with him! hehe, he, heeeeee….really)

By The way Mr E. just love your rock hard analysis of the physical aspect. Its just prooves how much we really hold our breath while waiting for the releases of this grand work of art.
Dawnveil Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 5:41 am
Well, as for all this wonderful banter as to Gatts’ lineage, I’m voting for him being human.

BUT after he was branded, he got a +1. Nothing vastly superiour, just a big boost.

Everyone keeps debating on the sword and how much it weighs, do the math yourself. It’s already mentioned as a big slab of iron. It is far from light, and I would think that 250lbs (mentioned before) is a gross underestimation for something that size. (compare the size of the sword, and an anvil, now how much does an anvil of that size weigh)

As for the whole, it’s his spirit thing. He’s been pretty much determined to kill Griffith since the eclipse. That’s the driving force that collides with his love for Casca. Between those two things, his determination to do ONE of them will prevail. I mean, as long as Griffith lives, he’s not gonna just settle down with Casca and live a ‘happy’ life; the reverse is also true, if she’s cured, he’s not going to stop hunting Griffith. Most people underestimate the driving force that actually gives him, the strength that gives him, the limits that lets him push in order to get those things done.

Because he’s now of both worlds gives him the ability to see and affect the other side as well, and that’s pretty much it. He hasn’t really been getting ‘stronger’, I’ve always seen it as he’s always gone to such lengths before, it just wasn’t up against foes that were of this caliber.
Rofls Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 5:53 am
I can’t believe some people actually believe Guts is not 100% human. One of the MAIN long and true standings of the entire series is human vs. demons/gods.

Whether or not Guts’s abilities are enhanced by something that happened is an entirely different topic (Yet he still is 100% human, just as magic users are human but still have special abilities/enhancements).
Aetherfukz Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 5:57 am
Yep Guts is indeed brilliant. You just have to love a guy that cuts off his own arm in a desperate attempt to save his love.

And all this discussion just proves what a magnificient story Berserk is. All great stories beget discussions and theories, the Lord of the Rings as a prime example. There is just so much going on that you can talk about.

A story that just states: A is like this and B is like this, doesn’t merit discussion.
Lost_echos Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 7:26 am
about the infatuation griffith has i was thinking that maybe guts isnt affected cause he has the mark or was his sacrifice
because caska has always been infatuated with griffith since she was saved by his years ago then again it could be that guts hate overrides his infatuation griffith gives
Lost_echos Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 7:31 am
also maybe the mark makes the sacrifice stronger to greater feed give power to there apostles cause it seems to me the apostles like the taste of there flesh better than normal people in the series
Turd Ferguson Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 9:19 am
@ Funkenstein

If all the translator had was a rudimentary understanding of Japanese, then it’s pretty easy to imagine them mixing up the translation from something like “I made a sword that COULD kill a dragon,” to something like “I made a sword that DID kill a dragon.” Small difference in translation, HUGE difference in meaning.

It’s kind of funny when you read that translation and then you think about it. They still have Godo saying they were going to hang him for creating the Dragon Slayer. If there really was a dragon and it was slain by his sword, why would they want to hang him?
mandos9 Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 9:31 am
the only time I’ll be happy to see Griffith is when his head is chopped off by Gats…
Mr.E Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 10:58 am
@ Gnat
nice making up force carrying particles or Bosons now but what do you mean by between the strong and weak nuclear force, i suppose magnitude but they have completely different characteristics.

@ Samael Daemon
yo thanks its the result of constantly refreshing this page to see if there’s any news on berserk (i’m not complaining keep up the good work EG), that and i’m in the middle of exams so any distraction will do

@ Arto
man i’ve been saying that all along but guts doesn’t need the world to change, because guts carries the brand everywhere he goes the world is already both the spirit and physical world. so regardless the laws of physical are loosened which allows guts to use his spiritual strength as well as his physical and grow in power unhindered, remember the skull night had the brand too i believe thats what happened that his spiritual power grew so much that when he when berserk in the berserk armor it ripped his ego apart and the skull knight’s ego replaced him or rather turned into him rather than killed him outright(everyone else you wears the armor and goes berserk dies fighting). who knows could happen to guts.
Samael Daemon Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 11:22 am
Just checked out a fiew pages of the manga on the site mentioned far above. Man. It’s like watching Matt Sloan’s “wicked deseption” on youtube. where he translates
a script from english -> german -> french -> german -> english…

One of my favorites is “Treatchery is afoot” translates back in to “The boar is present in an implementaion”

Craaaazyyy
Someone Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 11:30 am
Hey, people!
In my opinion, Guts WAS a human before the Eclipse.
After that, when he must have been fighting with all those apostoles and so on – survived the Eclypse, he got the “supernatural” status .
On the other side, he may be just a strong and “experienced-apostole-and-similliar-shit-fighter”.
He was using big swords all the time.
Even when he was young, he has the sword for adults.
Now he is bigger, and so on – his sword is bigger ;D.
Miura made him superhero a little, but it may be considered as a normal evolution while fighting stronger and inhuman opponents.
He has to be a motherfucker to kill stronger motherfuckers than him.
And so on – when fighting, he is supernatural beast, and when its nice and clean – he is a peacefull strong human.
Whatever, say whatever you want to.
Im dying to see the translation, can anyone help me? :<
GIVE GIVE GIVE!
THX EG!
sup Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
I thought one of the big points of the whole story is that Guts is in fact just a regular human who’s messin with the big boy demons, and that’s what in fact makes him special?
I don’t see how anyone can consider him supernatural, other than his mark (which basically only makes demons appear wanting to kill him.)
Thana Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
“Firstly, to address the claims that Guts is but a human with extreme conditioning, consider this: Guts has had an incredibly harsh life where, even as a child, there was many a time when he should have died from wounds, from shock, from fatigue, etc. If he was a normal human, the strain that he puts on his body would have killed him long before he had made it to the eclipse, and if somehow, miraculously his body could survive that, it most certainly would not be able to survive the daily torment that he would go through since becoming the black swordsman.”

Oh, he paid a tribute for his harsh lifestyle – a strain of his hair got white. This is a sign for losing his life energy. Just consider every evil thing vanishes of that world: How long will Gutts live his peaceful life? I think the stress to his body would kill him before he’ll get 40… Well… it is all just guessing, but remember the permanent exhaustion Miura discribed after the eclipse. There were not much moments showing Gutts in rested stage.
Ok, since he got the painting on the branding he got more sleep but in trade he loses more life force by wearing the berserk armor.

In my opinion, considering that mush Miura gave us so long, I can only believe Gutts’ determination keeps his body moving. But Im a little bit worried about what will happen when he has reached all his goals…
Samael Daemon Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
What are you talking about? Gutts gets plenty of sleep
in between the three or four month gaps Miura goes on vacation
DeMs Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
@Someone

…finally, over all these posts “someone” uses the term of HERO. There is still hope :p

It’s just that I rather debate over the storyline not over a term used to define someone/something – but that’s just me
denna Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
i think i’m just gonna start reading berserk once a year. that way i can read 5 chapters at a time, if Miura decides to have a good year.
brianl08 Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Although i don’t think it’s important, the issue of weight of the sword. i like to look at the sword as a lifting bar in a weight room. The lifting bar is 45 pounds with the heavy tubed ends. with out it, it’s 15 pounds. and Guts’ sword hands is much skinnier. now you add the weight of the sword, which if you look at by adding weights on the bar, can’t be more than 120 pounds, i think it’s an easier explanation if you are familiar with the weight room.
Turd Ferguson Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
@ brainl08

I am VERY familiar with the weight room and I have absolutley no idea how you can possibly come to the conclusion that Dragon Slayer is only 120 pounds. There is almost no basis for the comparison.
shcnoff Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
@psi29: sorry. i was working, and it was a big post, so i just pushed the button until it worked.

aside from that, iron’s weight isn’t based on volume. a lot of metals can be beaten into a pulp to make them denser and heavier for their size. it gets smaller but heavier for its size from outgassing and impurities. but if the ds is made from a slab of raw iron, i don’t think godo spent much time refining it.

jacki chan movies are real. the answer to how much effects an actioneer uses in their movies lies in their branding. if you see wesley snipes or donny yen, you can assume ropes at least and sometimes cg are used, if you see tony jaa or jackie chan, than you know the stunt was tried again and again until they did something that LOOKS impossible.

i will definitely experience somewhat of a fall in esteem for miura if guts ends up being a time-travelling caska’s son with some kind of monster. SK would be a false step, but he definitely has some insight into guts’ life that hasn’t been explained, but could be inferred from SK’s relationship with flora. i think if we ever get an answer to who guts’ daddy was, it will be a surprise(and hopefully his name won’t be mario). i couldn’t believe it when i first heard that name, “gambino.”
rodrigo Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
well Im agree whith you
County Earl of Bathminster-upon-Thyme, Mortimer C. Forster-Garbett-McCallaghanstinshire Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Pssssssh, who needs Bleach when you got Berserk.
Also… I understand it being amusing, but when you try to compare a manga that features demon’s, magic, humans tranforming into super monsters… Well, your bound to run into trouble.

Last chapter gave the impression of this being a very epic chapter… Does this by any chance, in unison with the wait, mean that this is an extra long chapter?
County Earl of Bathminster-upon-Thyme, Mortimer C. Forster-Garbett-McCallaghanstinshire Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
I’d expected myself to form a coherent sentence on the draft…
To use forum terms, consider this an EDIT.

Pssssssh, who needs Bleach when you got Berserk.
Also… I understand it being amusing, but when you try to compare a manga that features demon’s, magic, humans tranforming into super monsters with reality… Well, your bound to run into trouble.

Last chapter gave the impression of this being a very epic chapter… Does this by any chance, in unison with the wait, mean that this is an extra long chapter?
Nydhogg Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
” I think the stress to his body would kill him before he’ll get 40″

I think that won’t be a problem, the story should finish before that, Gutts is what? 21 years old?
Thana Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
“I think that won’t be a problem, the story should finish before that, Gutts is what? 21 years old?”

Maybe. I think its a bit more like 23 or 24 since he spend a lot of years with Griffith. If someone has nothing else to do he could maybe reread it? His age entering the hawks and the time spend are all known, if my mind doenst trick me…

The SK cant be the father of Gutts. When the group freed Griffith out of the tower princess Charlotte told the story of the origin of the SK. Although I cant remind the real amount his background must lay several centuries back. The identity of his mother is so clear as it could be – he was laying in her blood.

Btw.: I tried the online version on onemanga… it sucks. I stopped on page 3 or 4…
Nydhogg Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
He entered the Hawks with 15, spent 3 years with them, 1 year away, he came back and then there was the eclipse then he spent 2 years away from caska so he should be around 21-22
brianl08 Says:
November 13th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
i’m really siked about sike saying that
“under prince’s (griffith) command, knights of apocalypse are maturing….If he’s(griffith) is the truly the 5th angel incarnate, the hawk of darkness written in the apocalypse, it’s truly a dreadful thing.”
does this mean Griffith is going to turn into a bad emperor and try to kill everyone or something? and Guts’ is gonna basically save the world?
Lost_echos Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 12:04 am
um i hear everyone saying that SK was branded but in none of the comics does IT EVER SAY HE WAS all we know is that he wore the armor and hates void(brain dude) he knew the witch and maybe she did the same thing with SK as this one is doin with guts

i believe he was branded but come on theres no mention of it in the comic he could just be pissed cause he lost his kingdom
Lost_echos Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 12:09 am
oh yeah we keep forgeting the elves/pixes there healing of guts time and time again could be keeping him alive and releasing the strain the type of lifestyle guts chooses to live
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 12:31 am
That’s the thing of the story though, is that we almost have less proof that Guts is an ordinary human than we have proof of him being inhuman. Perhaps Arto’s explanation is the most plausible, that Guts surpassed his boundaries as a normal human once Griffith expanded the possibilities of reality, but even surviving through sheer willpower there was even a time where Griffith noted that it seemed that Guts was purposefully trying to meet his demise in combat, almost as if his desire was not his survival but simply to fight bigger and stronger opponents and thus constantly surpass his limitations.

I will concede that Guts is human ONLY in that Guts is the model of the ideal human, considering that ideal human form allows for constant and unabated adaptation and evolution. I find that perfection is more of an intangible quality, as it can’t be defined universally; however, the concept of Ideal forms can exist but would be so very improbable that it would be likely his existence was engineered. IF Guts were of absolute ideal form, and thus could constantly surpass his physical and non-physical limitations, then he wouldn’t really be human because he would be the singular anomaly. The only other human that we have seen that WAS closest to an ideal form was Griffith, but less so than Guts, and in the end we saw that his existence was crafted by the Idea of God.

To summarize, it would seem that anything within the range of ability that Guts has shown through the years has been, in some way, connected with other realms, and most often with the Idea of God. Don’t even argue that Boscogne or Samson or Bazuso or even Pippin, Judeau, Corkus or Rickert are of the same ability, because their frame of ability has never even come close. I’m not certain with Caska, because her existence has been so closely involved with both Guts and Griffith, and that she has both been the glue that bonded Griffith and Guts, and ultimately the schismatic factor in the relationship between Guts and Griffith.

I am very anxious to see the Elfhelm segment for, if there is a viable process to return her to an empowered stature, it will be the dividing line. We would see, if the process failed, that Caska was not of a similarly ideal form as Guts or Griffith, but that she was sheltered by the two and developed and survived because of them; But, if the process succeeded, we would likely see Caska QUITE empowered, indeed of ideal human form with the capability for transcending any obstacles. I, for one, hope to see Caska surpass her limitations, and for the process to succeed if it is possible.
annull Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 3:22 am
Reginald is a man after my own heart. I feel like perhaps Guts could be the anti-hawk(suprise). He even could be the product of “God” that created Griffith. Either God created him to be the anti-hawk to oppose Griffith(of course not letting Griffith or the Godhand know of his true designs), or God made him to be just a tool for Griffith and ANOTHER agency came into play (another god, fate, etc.) which altered his destiny. OR what may be even more interesting is that Guts’ destiny, powers, and everything was mere chance happenings, a fluke. He could be the anti-hawk because he is essentially everything Griffith isn’t(specially bred and guided to greatness). In this Guts could be anti-god, anti-hawk, anti-destiny(this part is obvious already). He represents that part of humanity that is random, both wonderful and so against proper laws–beyond any bounds previously believed possible. Guts has gone above and beyond what anyone has believed possible, and this is obviously what makes him such a great character.

On another side of the coin, Guts could also unwittingly be the avatar of another agency that opposes the “God” and its Godhand. In everything there is balance–for a supremely evil agency such as the Godhand there has to be an opposing and equally formidable force. It’s just how the universe works(whether this force is seen as powerful or not does not denote its actual strength). Obviously this opposing force is not the Vatican. We can see the only true opposing force against Griffith is Guts, his troop, wielders of natural magic(Flora etc.), Skull Knight, and perhaps the elves.

Now that I think about it more, it is entirely possible that “God”, the massive collective and evil unconscious of humanity, could have only shown Griffith and the God Hand what they wanted, empowering them to do evil. Could not “God” also be amazingly beautiful, moral, and righteous? After all, if “God” is the collective unconscious of humanity, does that mean that all unconsciousness is bad? Obviously not, for great artists such as Beethoven and other prodigies have been able to unconsciously perform great musical and artistic feats that have inspired millions.

What I am saying is that perhaps God is dual-natured–on one side empowering the anti-hawk forces and on the other fueling the God Hand’s desires. Or, one could also say that there are two “Gods”(separate and yet of the same nature–human). One inherantly evil, the other inherantly good and yet to be seen, and these two forces use the realm of Berserk for their planetary chess-board.

Just throwing some thought-residue into the pot here. Mull over it and refine it or reject it.

p.s. forgive my spelling errors
Thana Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 6:17 am
I agree partly with annull. The chapter that was later erased out of the story (Griffiths evolution into Femto) showed a god. This god is the creature above the god hand. I think this god is the ultimate evil being. Flora, Schierke and the pixies have no god. They serve the elements which are in this world manifestured into powerful avatars. We learned that Puck is also just a spirit made of wind like the spirits of Serpicos sword.

The question is what this god is planning. Faithful humans cant see the spirits – erasing the believe in the elements seems to be part of it. Its funny. Something tells me we are close to the end of the main plot and something else tells me we arent even close… For example Im very sure about that the hole god hand must be destroyed and as a part of that we learn about the past of them as humans.

I hope Miura stops pausing and gives us more plot. I love this story!
InterRage Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 10:42 am
Yea, I’m hearing all this, “Guts is so powerful, he must have magical demon powers” and whatnot. Well, how do you explain the fights with Serpico. this is dueling with strategy, and Serpico isn’t the only one who uses strategy.
Guts utilizes every weapon at his disposal. knives, arrows, mini grenades, a cannon and a large two-handed sword that has been a constant in Guts’ life.
throw on natural survival instincts and unstoppable willpower and you have
Guts.
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 11:15 am
I couldn’t agree more with the above statements. There is definitely something more, some much larger plan in the works than Griffith’s crusade. It almost seems as if all of these romantic (and horrific) events within the world of Berserk are the ornate designs of some external being or will. I’m not by any means a religious person, I’ve always been the pessimist in this respect, but I know a plot when I see it and much of what I have seen transpire in Berserk, especially since Griffith was empowered by the Idea of God, just doesn’t add up. Something is amiss; the way in which the story is unfolding leads me to believe that there are more hidden devices within the story, such as a greater depth to Miura’s use of the Idea of God and the Klein Bottle motifs. If God is indeed the manifestation of will, and Griffith is the will of God, and if the will of God is absolute, than why in God’s name is Guts the force that he is in this storyline? Either humanity’s will is dual natured in that Guts’ success is the hidden or secret desire of mankind, and Griffith is truly the foil to Guts, or there must exist another reason, such as necessity of equivalence in that Guts’ empowerment is equivalent, opposite, and necessary with Griffith’s empowerment. That, or perhaps the story is meant to show that the power of anomaly, of spontaneity, of randomness disorder and chaos is far greater than the power of order, and thus we would see that Guts, who seems to be an anomalous force, is indomitable.
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 11:27 am
@InterRage

But you said it yourself:

“… and unstoppable willpower and you have Guts.”

If Guts has unstoppable willpower, then he isn’t human, is he? Humanity exists by limitation, not by immortality, so if Guts were truly human he would have set limitations.

Alas, he has no permanent limitations, at least none that we have seen so far. Is magic a requirement for a supernatural existence? Does he necessarily possess demonic powers? No, because as far as we know there are other realms, other forms that are non-demonic that would allow him to be so empowered, and so inhuman. Humanity doesn’t come close to an ideal form, and if Guts were so close to being an ideal human then he would be a singular and atypical occurrence, and thus he couldn’t be defined as human. Guts is the outlier as far as his range of abilities is concerned. As I have afore mentioned, his transcendence of human limitations could be a product of his survival of the eclipse, in could be said that both Guts and Caska would be of ideal form, and thus would be an entirely different form than human, so to speak.
brianl08 Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
It would be great irony if Guts was the product of the god that is opposite of the God shown with Griffith. After all, Griffith is the savior of Midland, and Guts is the evil trying to kill the savior, despite his reasons for doing so.
Also the Big Lump of Flesh God says he is the idea of heaven and hell, god hands are idea of angels and demons.
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
Indeed. Being evil has never before been this good.

Well, Evil has always been good but this is just delicious.
vashfanatic Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
I always feel like we shouldn’t be talking about “God” in this because Miura somehow wants us all to forget he put that chapter where he did. But since it *was* there and we *did* read it, and so I get to say that the God of Grifith is (direct quotes here!) “the idea of evil,” “the darkness that dwells in in every human heart,” a being that produces reasons and justifications for human behavior. It is an engine of the human subconscious that gives us what we want, but since human beings inherently are full of darkness and evil, it is a corrupt and evil God. What humans really want, according to Miura, is a Grifith! We don’t really /want/ a Guts. It’s a pretty biting indictment of human nature.
Joyrock Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
I think to many watch crappy anime where the main char is some sort of uber demon angel trapped in a human body an is some dark lord :/ Gutts is human pure an simple if he wanted to be anything more he could but said he never would wish for that he would destory demons as a normal -weak- human.
Gnat Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
>>Gutts is human pure an simple

Using manga/anime deduction principles…somewhere he made a promise to avenge, come back alive…whatever. The promise allows him to overcome any obstacle!
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Please, explain to me how Guts is human. Is it because he appears to be human? If that’s your basis, you have little to go on. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: The evidence that supports the theory that Guts is inhuman is greater and more present than any evidence that he is human. Until he is chopped in half at the torso and dies from bloodloss the evidence points to him being inhuman. UNLESS, and this is a big unless, any and all occurrences within the storyline are not subject to rational and logical restrictions, such as

1. Guts has his arm hacked off and walks around for a few hours with a big smile on his face as gallons of blood jet out from the wound.

OR

2. Guts picks up the pirate ship and uses it as a weapon, flattening scores of foes in a single swing.

3. Guts rips Zodd in half with his pinky finger (HULK SMASH!)
nocturnal Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Everyone is forgeting Guts fight with the snake apostle. He calles humans weak and how a sacrafice cant oppose them. Then Guts goe into how WE ARE mortal. Its in the first episode of the anime. put that in your pipe and smoke it, anti-humanguts supporters.
Thana Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
“Everyone is forgeting Guts fight with the snake apostle. He calles humans weak and how a sacrafice cant oppose them. Then Guts goe into how WE ARE mortal. Its in the first episode of the anime. put that in your pipe and smoke it, anti-humanguts supporters.”

Good point I also have the opinion Gutts ist just an extraordanary strong determined human.

BUT what about Gutts not knowing his parents? How could he then know that he isnt human, maybe a half spirit or something? Raised by mortals he could just believe he is a normal mortal.

Well… the conclusion is still: no one knows
I would be happy if im right in my opinion of Gutts being a “normal” human because this gives his doing much more meaning…
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Griffith thought that he was normal too, you know. That was before he was face to face with the Idea of God who went off on a rant that Griffith was his most prized design.

It really depends on whether you believe that a person has any control of what they are, NOT who they are, but what they are. The answers is, at least to start off, they do not. I wouldn’t go so far as medieval genetic engineering, but the concept of Eugenics has been around for centuries. We can’t say for sure what Guts really is, for we haven’t been exposed to that information and we aren’t Kentarou Miura (Though some of us fantasize about it.)
You can also call a potato a banana, but that would be your opinion and solely your opinion.

I’ve digressed from my point, my apologies. The point is that Guts could just as easily be inhuman as he could be human. In fact, the things that he does, what he is capable of is inhuman in and of itself, add to that the fact that his family and relatives are unknown, and his birth was very ominous according to medieval superstition. Remember, medieval cultures and superstitions have played a major part in the story, mainly because THEY ARE WHAT HUMANS EXPECT AND VEST THEIR FAITH IN, kind of like the Idea of God… Hmmm…, improbable, yet the Idea of God clearly exists within the storyline, it is of tangible form, not metaphysical. That leads to other possibilities and other deductions.
Death&Rebirth Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
Heh…guys…
This is fiction so this isn’t based on what we perceive as “normal” or “human”.
Nydhogg Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
I don’t understand why people give so much importance to Gutts parents… In other stories you probably don’t care about stuff like that =/ The all idea of this mange is to show how humans can surpass their own limits, can fight against some kind of destiny or “transcendental law” that moves us all..
As for the superstitions linked to Gutts’ birth, he supposedly gave bad luck to those around him.. now that he has the brand more than ever since when night falls his “friends” come pay a visit… He was also the one who made Griffith almost fail to achieve his dreams.. I think this concept of bringing bad luck to those around him will probably be of some importance in the future, specially if he happens to defeat griffith, cause right now griffith is like some Jesus that had his share of pain, “died” and reborn to save midland, and right now all he’s been doing is for the benefit of the country so it’s difficult to define that killing him will be the right thing to do. Though it’s also important to remember that during the second eclipse the ones who survived weren’t those who just kneeled to pray for salvation, but the ones that, in some cases inspired by Gutts, fought for their lives and that may happen again in the future.

Well my thoughts seem a bit confusing and my english isn’t helping either x_x
thedude Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
some ideas that popped into my head when i reread the chapter where charlotte talks about the origin of the tower of rebirth
and king gaiseric (aka SK). what stood out the most was the corpses at the bottom of the pit that had the brand on them. Isn’t everyone who is branded normally eaten by the demons at the eve of the festival save Gatts and Caska. it also says that 4 angels visited king gaiseric’s kingdom one night and destroyed everything. maybe king gaiseric was to be an apostle but chose not to resulting with the left over corpses with the brand and a destroyed city. or even more maybe the whole scenario with griffith becoming the 5th god hand was played out before and failed with king gaiseric.
and the reason as to why he chose not to may have something to do with the witch, that is if he is the SK.
The Herald Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 6:48 pm
Gut’s mother is certainly human. She was probably a Gypsy or a Jew killed in a purge by the Holy See. I’m guessing Gypsy because Guts has dark hair but not super dark skin.
nocturnal Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
death and rebirth is right. Also nydhogg: People are really curious of what origin gutts is because it can have to do alot with a future plot.
On the guts is human subject: Gutts being able to over come all these challenges and reach these feats is not a signal of being supernatural. It might actualy go back to the thing that man has no contol and that theres a hand hovering above. So Its destiny… a human destined to fight the god hand has to be practicly superhuman to do so.
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Alright, I’m just going to throw this in since I was rushed in my last post. The one thing that stops me from readily believing that Guts is human and that his struggle is meant to represent the tenacity of humanity is this; Before the eclipse ceremony for Griffith, had anyone that was branded for sacrifice in such a ceremony survived the eclipse?

<>
Signs point to no. Try again later.

Seriously though, I am inclined to believe that nobody has ever before accomplished the feat that Guts and Caska had managed. That is the one factor above all others that leads me to believe that Guts and Caska aren’t your run of the mill humans. On last chapters forum I posted (at least, I think I did) regarding the Ideal-leader/hive-like attraction that Griffith, and in some ways, Guts possess. I.E., because of either their outstanding charisma or some other influence that we do not know of, these two leaders attract strong individuals as allies. The thing is that this is expected of Griffith, because this is a tool endowed upon him by the Idea of God, which was endowed by mankind itself.

What doesn’t make sense here is that Guts is by no means a born leader, and neither is he a makeshift leader. In battling for the Hawks, he didn’t really command so much as he was a figure of strength and a powerful force to rally behind. Maybe this rallying force is an aftereffect of the eclipse and maybe it isn’t, but still, it is an interesting quality.

The more that I look into the possibilities, the more I am tempted to believe that Guts and Griffith are opposites and meant to exist in a sort of equilibrium. Both men, since the beginning, have been driven purely by their own desires, Griffith to acquire his kingdom and Guts to fuel his bloodlust and chaotic desires. What I noted was that, while Griffith pursued his goal of order with order, Guts pursued his goal of chaos through chaos. Griffith serves the Idea of God and causality (order in the raw), and thus, perhaps there exists an equivalent force for Guts, a manifestation of chaos of equivalence to the Idea of God. I think that the reason that we are seeing so much order developing (Griffith busily building his reign) might be that Guts has subverted his desires for Caska’s sake. Perhaps what we see to be Guts’ black wolf avatar is actually a small manifestation of that chaotic force, and notice that its focus is on the white hawk avatar, the symbol of that purest form of order, not so much on Griffith himself. I think that ultimately Griffith and Guts are chess pieces for opposite forces, and that ultimately we will see Guts succeed in achieving freedom from the will of his “master”; who knows, perhaps we will once again see a humbled Griffith whom would finally the depth to which he has been usurped.
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
Geez, sorry everyone for the typos in the last post. The stream of ideas is both a gift and a curse to mankind ;P

Also, I just wanted to express deep thanks to the EG crew, not only for supplying us with accurate translations but doing so at an incredible pace, as well as for hosting these pre-chapter chats. I really feel that the chance to discuss the elements of the manga allows for greater enjoyment and expanded clarity. In my book, your group is second only to Miura.
annull Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
I like your way of thinking Reginald. I don’t agree with everything you say but most of it is pretty tasty to read over.
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
Thanks. It’s just the beauty of this story, you see; the storyline of Berserk is so engaging that I NEED to think about what’s not fully explained. We’re only given so much as readers, so much of the story remains veiled in shadow. The Berserk releases are like a drug; I believe it was best said with “This shit’s so good it oughta be illegal”. You can only read through the chapter over a span of 5 seconds so many times, right?

There’s no other manga that, in my honost opinion, even comes close to Berserks magnificent artwork and silken storyline. The only other work that was remotely this dear to my heart was the anime Neon Genesis Evangelion, and for many of the same reasons. If ever a work that allows intense speculation, that’s the one.
Joyrock Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 12:51 am
Before the moon landing man had never walked on the moon, I don’t think Neil armstorng was anything but human. Great people are often the first to do things. Reasons why Gutts is human.

#1 the series is about the human will, it follows the logic of what does not kill you makes you stronger. There have been plenty of times when gutts would have died but the smallest factor saved him not some dark EMO BS about being part demon/human.

#2 all the apostles see him as human.

#3 at first they thought gutts did have some power that he got AFTER the eclipse but it turned out to just be his sword.

Gutts is just a man that been through it all, he is just badass. Even his birth was not easy, gutts has had everything that could go wrong in his life happen an from it become stronger. In early chapters he talks about how folks are weak an they die because they are weak, this is because they choose to be.

trust me if gutts was some half demon that has sterotype angel wings an crys emo blood he would have had glowing red eyes an had a black out, killing the black guy that ass raped him as a child in sterotype manga style.

I believe they don’t talk about his parents because there was nothing more worth saying, after all it not there story. We know all we need to know, Gutts mother (so we can assume his farther as well because Miura is not some untalented manga writer that needs to result to sudden shock info to make his manga good, it also not his style)

Was some village girl hanged for what ever reason prolly for being some minority. Gutts came from dirt an he became a man that is like a hero of legend.
thepuregamer Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 1:41 am
I just attempted to read the franky house scanlation of 291 and it was incomprehensible. Now I remember why I only check for berserk at evil genius.
Samael Daemon Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 2:12 am
Seee? Joyrock gets my point!, he has also noticed the stereotype-manga-rape-on-the-hero I was yappin about. so it was not just me. Thank you Joyrock!
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 2:16 am
Then tell me this… did Guts really choose to be strong? Did he choose to be strong with his upbringing, or was it that he was forced to be strong? Was it that external consequences led to the Guts that we know, or is was it all his choosing?

What if someone doesn’t know that they are something inhuman, what if they think themselves to be insignificant? Just because he would have unnatural powers doesn’t mean the manga has to be Yu Yu Hakusho or Naruto. Folklore of our world tells that supernatural beings often took human form and blended in perfectly with the rest of society. Tell me this: If you just started reading the manga without knowing that Griffith were a Demon Lord, mightn’t you believe him to be the hero of the story? Mightn’t you believe him to be a human, perhaps some noble knight?

Here we can safely apply the maxim; Don’t judge a book by its cover. This is a world ruled by theological perspectivalism in that everything should exist in concordance with the views that the Idea of God holds. Guts, however, does not. Guts and his friends are an outlier in the grand scheme of God, and Guts’ gang center around Guts, seemingly empowered by his presence. Humans, as they collectively necessitate the existence of the Idea of God, are ruled by the idea of God. SO, this is why it would seem that Guts is not quite the human everyone thinks him to be. If he were human, a force equal to or greater than the Idea of God would have to empower Guts in order for Guts to resist like a steel wall.

Not even the world of Berserk is so ideal as to allow for the omnipresence of choice.
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 2:28 am
Besides, Miura’s style is Miura’s style. In trying to craft a story that really grabs the audience, he has created a parallel to our reality, where what we expect to occur doesn’t always happen (I.E. your notion of Guts pulling shinobi-esque moves to prevent his rape)

You see, something else that’s great about the story of Berserk is that characters are not all knowing, perhaps they can make an eloquent statement about beggars being the preferred prey for the Grim Reaper and then two panels later they are ripped to shreds by chimeric tigers. Miura’s style is to build a Three Dimensional world unlike oh so many shonen animes in existence. That, and the rather Lovecraftian aspects of Berserk, are what separate it from shonen anime.
annull Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 2:45 am
In my eyes, the argument is not so much that Guts is NOT human or HALF human, but that he has been augmented, (spiritually, gear-wise, internally-driven and shaped through strife). He is inhuman in that what he does is physically impossible, but he is still 100% human. Guts has definitely went from verson 1.0 to 2.0 after the eclipse, and his power is obviously growing(as almost every hero-cycle in existence follows). Thus, Guts is HUMAN of course, but it seems obvious to me that his humanity is changed throughout the course of the story, no matter how hard people want(and need) to cling to the idea that he is implicitly human and NOTHING ELSE. Often his companions within his troop can be seen to say “He is like a monster,” or “He has inhuman speed and strength, and is quite frightening,” whenever he is in battle.

This is because Guts, though the paragon of humanity’s dark, inward struggle, alienation, loneliness, and all-consuming rage and spirit of revenge, is more like a neo-human. What makes him wonderful is that even though he is such a champion of all that is beautiful and dark about what it is to be human, he is transcendant above all of us. He is unique, and I think most people who are into Berserk want to be Guts, or at least a little like Guts.

Miura has taken the definition of “tragic hero” and brought it to new heights, or you could say to deeper depths. Berserk is savage, beautiful, introspective, and above all: utterly human.
Joyrock Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 4:35 am
stero-type manga rape? 0.o bersek started many of today’s manga sterotypes like the giant sword wielding hero, but back then the ass rape was totally orginal, No one could miss that as a warped hero factor that could only be found in berserk.
InterRage Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 5:08 am
@Reginald

blah, no point.
Guts human.
Reginald: Guts inhuman.

talk talk talk. you bring up Guts being inhuman, when you don’t have evidence of your own. Speculation blah.

I think Guts is human, because he was born human.
……is that my own speculation? that he was born human…?
“how do I know”?

We might as well agree that it’s just story telling. Guts is an exceptional human being, and so is Griffith by default, because that’s how the story plays out.
Death&Rebirth Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 6:15 am
@Reginald

Do you have any item in 291 chapters that indicate that Guts isn’t human, besides the speculation you posted?

Well quoting you:
”
Signs point to no. Try again later.”
Samael Daemon Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 6:51 am
I think Miura wants us to know Gatts as the child found in a pool of blood born from a dead-hung mother. Thats kind of the whole point. Never ever during the series does he think about his origin.

It would be like a mexican telenovela if suddenly for instance Skullknight would step forward and say “Gatts, I am your father”

I on the other hand, wonder why the god hand didint manage to kill the emperor-skullknight in the good old days when they where “angels”. What we do know is that he is human no more. Maby Gatts could face the same fate. But we know that he wont. He could, but he wont.
InterRage Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 7:20 am
“Guts, I am your father” dun dun dun!
that would be kinda lame too.

When I first saw Guts in his Berserk armor, it was when I stumbled on the japanese site and I was still reading the pirkaf saga. So I was like, “did Guts use a behelit?” cause to me he looked as though he turned into an apostle. Might as well fight fire with fire, since he was already using every instance to gain the upper hand in defeating the Godhand.

So when the emperor asked Guts to join him in defeating Griffith, I thought that was easily the hardest question to answer. Guts could have met Griffith the morning after.
Samael Daemon Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 7:31 am
Yeah thats true. I wonder why guts preferd to join with Zodd Rather than join Emperor Ganeesha in that fight.
It doesen’t make sence he should hate Zodd more.

We all know that it wouldnt matter much since The White Hawk would have them all the kushan for dinner in about three seconds. But still Gatts didn’t know that.

Too bad The emperors überform is a mistcloud and all Griffith needs to do is fart on him and sayonara domo arigato.
InterRage Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 7:50 am
The ball and chain’ got him grounded. Fightin’ for the right to have 2-handed sword wieldin’ babies.
Thana Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 8:55 am
“Yeah thats true. I wonder why guts preferd to join with Zodd Rather than join Emperor Ganeesha in that fight.
It doesen’t make sence he should hate Zodd more.”

As I understood the chapters being allied with a monster to kill another monster is something Gutts wouldnt do. So why has he allied himself mit Zodd? Did he really ally with him? As far as I remember he accidently landed on Zodds back and before he wanted loop of his head he became the information of Ganishkas vulnerable spot – never reachable from the ground. I think he used Zodd. He would never ally with him.

Oh and Ganishka: He is used by Griffith as well. The thread caused by the Kushans made Griffith to the hero he has become now. The reason for letting him live was to be declared as midlands #1 defender in public by Charlotte infront of the midland nobility and not to be forced using demonic powers in the public. Remember: He used a trick to dispell the mist of the emperor. Who knows what he would have to use to really fight him. The capital could be a much more comfitable fighting place ’cause Griffith could use everything he has. Also try to ask yourself why he didnt kill Ganishka after freeing Charlotte right away. Poor, poor Ganishka – you are so abitious but only be toyed with…
InterRage Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 9:06 am
and why also did Griffith not just finish him off the second time?
hmmm, might be a vanishing thought but…might griffith use Ganishka further by allowing him to live?
krazyivan Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 9:21 am
so – how’s the translation going?
I don’t mean to hurry you guys up, I just want to know should i let my f5 button live or just keep on punishing it )
Adavanter Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 9:46 am
A lot of people jump to the conclusions when we say he isn’t a normal human that it implies he’s something else. Like a demon or… whatever. I’m not saying that. I think he was just a normal very powerful man up until the eclipse. Even then he was still normal… but marked. The time spent between realms hadn’t even really started to affect him. Yet as time has gone on… it seems it does. He’s gone beyond the bounds of normalcy many times before the Berserker armor appeared. I still feel he’s gained an ability to go beyond the limited capabilities of a normal human and can somehow unknowingly pull extra strength from his spirit. Only made easier by being stuck between the two realms.

I don’t think Guts father will ever appear and hopefully has nothing to do with the overall story. I prefer to keep the whole… Guts seems to be outside of “fate” not some special son of a God/Hero etc.

As for Skull Knight… IMO one of the coolest characters in the entire manga… It seemed it was hinted he may have been that King of that castle oh so long ago. That one that one cast into hell or whatever. Sounded like Sodom and Gomorra. (Been so long now) I think Skull Knight pulled a Griffin… He sacrificed his sinful people… Became a really powerful apostle. Then somehow turned back to the light… and decided to try and make amends with the atrocities of his past. Taking a similar path that Guts is taking now. Trying to set things right again.

Either way… even if Skull Knight turned out to be evil… he’s just freaking awesome.

As for Zodd… If you noticed… a lot of Griffin’s new comrades are not clearly evil. They are in a gray area. Zodd is a semi-reasonable fellow. The kind that if he really knew Griffin’s intentions… and saw a moment of weakness would likely help Guts kill him. Or he could just remain zealously loyal until his death. Zodd seems driven by many things. He’s not so clear cut. Like SK, both are cool… Man when they dueled…I love Berserk…
Nydhogg Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 10:22 am
nocturnal I don’t believe in such teories and I’m not gonna write much about that, I think Joyrock and other people explained well the point I was trying to get to…

As for Adaventer, yeah all Griffiths’ comrades seem to be moved by the same, following the stronger guy and fighting good battles.. they all seem to have some honor, though that weird one that has a mask and is only following Griffith so no one will kill him before he does seems not so honorable
C Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 12:11 pm
I have the berserk mark on my neck just lika gutts
DeMs Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
…the one with a mask… you mean that sort of ghostly kind of shaped person/entity with that mask from the kushan grounds? Not many talk about him but he seems quite aware of things going on…

For Gutts parents, I’m only wishing it to happen maybe sometime but it’s not in the goal of using them as a reason like “oooh so that’s why Gutts is like this and that etc” no, rather just additional character development, maybe a few quirks but nothing really outstanding.

The demonic followers of Griffith, they really seemingly do act as humans would with a code of honor combined with their own perception of things and goals, some just want flesh, killing, some others have their minds on other things. Where it is seen as wrong, as would Gutts say is that the band of the hawks are not demons and shouldn’t talk as if they were brave humans that have done many feats in battles

There are a lot of mind twists within each characters, wheter humans or demons. The only common thing I would dare say between those two is that both are NOT a/the God.
bla Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
“…the one with a mask… you mean that sort of ghostly kind of shaped person/entity with that mask from the kushan grounds? Not many talk about him but he seems quite aware of things going on…”

His name is Rakshas
Tom Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
Why do you guys have to analyse absolutely everything?
Doesn’t matter what Guts is. Guts is Guts. that’s all you need to know.
Samael Daemon Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
@ Thana

See thats where you and I differ. Wouldn’t you cut of the head of one of your worst enemies, when you so conveniently happen to land on his shoulders and have his head in between your legs?, I sure as hell would since he is basically one of Griffiths closest bodyguards. Not that he needs one but Zodd still a pain in the ass.

At least thats what I thought I’d do.. Until I read Adavanters “Zodd is a semi-reasonable fellow. The kind that if he really knew Griffin’s intentions… and saw a moment of weakness would likely help Guts kill him.” then i changed my mind. Because plotwise that sounds quite reasonable.
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Griffith looks like the patron god of all yaoi characters. Well, it was time for a chapter on Griffith anyway. 191: “Tea with Ganishka”
Jaken Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Just like annul said, Guts represents that what most poeple want to be. They can’t so they make Guts not human.

Guts is human but it’s fantasy so it’s natural he doesn’t follow standards of our world. Besides if he was some kind of wimp the manga would end after the first chapter – first minor apostle and he is dead. Heck, he would not even survive till eclipse, killed on batlefield.

Those shouting that Guts is not human cause he doesn’t have human limits should think a little. Why Miura created Berserk Armor? Because Guts strength have limits, they are just “little” higher than normal. If he was demon or sth like that he woludn’t need it.

PS. Sorry for bad english
Shiva Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Samael Daemon Says:

Yeah thats true. I wonder why guts preferd to join with Zodd Rather than join Emperor Ganeesha in that fight.
It doesen’t make sence he should hate Zodd more.

The only answer for me is that Guts wants to kill Griffith by his own hands. Simply emperor is his rival in vengeance. Sorry for my english….
Aetherfukz Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
First, concerning the “is Guts human or not”-discussion: The human body is a miraculous device. It has been said that it is impossible for a normal human to swing the Dragonslayer. Well it is also impossible for a normal human being to lift a car, walk through fire, or survive a fall from heights above 100 meters. Yet there are still proven records of human beings lifting cars or walking through a wall or fire, to save their otherwise doomed children. There are also records of more than one person who survived a fall from 2-4 kilometers height without a parachute in the second world war.

The human body is indeed miraculous: In times of dire stress, adrenalin pumps up every muscle, pain isn’t felt anymore, and we are able to do thing we couldn’t dream about doing under normal circumstances.

So it isn’t far fetched when someone who otherwise works 9-11 in an office achives such feats under dire need, that someone who spent his entire life on the battlefield in the danger of death, does such things on a day-to-day basis.

And second: @Samael Daemon: While almost everyone (me including) would want to cut the head of the nemesis he rides one, you have to take into consideration the situation: They flew like 100 meters in the air. Above water. Water that was electrocuted by Gashnika. So if Guts would have fallen from Zodd, it would probably been his death. Either by hitting the water, or by the electrocution thenafter. So not cutting his head of and steering him was the most reasonable solution.
Timur Lenk Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
dont understand why all hate griffith.
dont you read the full story?
it seems you only want to see the bad thing he did.
i dont think miura´s intention was to draw a marvel comic with good hero bad hero shit.
fotunately berserk is more then this…
Nydhogg Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Besides, Zodd as bad as he may be, spared Gutts life when he first met him, he killed that apostle before the eclipse when this one was threatning Griffith and lent his sword when Gutts was fighting Boscone, it makes sense that Gutts would prefer colaborating with him to kill a major enemy than killing him immedeatly
Samael Daemon Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
I know. yes he could plunge to his death but two more things could happen:

The emperor Ganeesha of the Cushion Empire could pause the current in the water just for a moment after the hypotetical decapitation to ask Gatts again if he won’t join.

Or if Gatts while in mid air shout out “hey Grishnak!, I’ll join you on the quest for hunting down the White Pee-cock”.

That truly would have been ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’
Instead by teaming upp with Zodd was ‘My enemy’s enemy’s enemy is my ride’ strange huh?. ah well guess it just generates more chapters to wait for endlessly.
Joyrock Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 7:02 pm
I think gutts sided with zodd over the emperor is because he did not want to make a pact with either, but zodd offered what the emperor did not something just for the moment. with the promise of killing each other later.

the Emperor is so caught up in his self glory that it just annoys gutts. While gutts an zodd might hate each other there both the same type of animal.
nocturnal Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
I agree with joyrock,
Gutts priorities were to get to sea. The Emperor was directly stopping and trying to kill gutts and company. Thus you have gutts thinking “get the hell out of my way.”
scout Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
i am so ready for this chapter already! come on!
c45j Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 11:47 pm
go to Franky’s House…
Dawnveil Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 12:27 am
@Aetherfukz
You do know that there’s a reason you don’t live with a constant adrenaline boost, and it comes in short bursts? It’s because it will kill you if it continues on too long. Guess taking facts hand-in-hand here that takes out the foundation for your reasoning. (not that Berserk comes anywhere near facts in reasoning though).

Though, funny enough, cutting the head off of Zodd was an interesting topic, kinda reminded me of the scorpion & the turtle (or frog depending on the telling) fable. Tactically, Gutts did the right thing. He has his goals, and he used the resources around to get to it. I mean, *I*’d use Zodd as a tool when I’m fighting something big directly, wouldn’t you?
InterRage Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 1:02 am
“it raises my nape hairs in extacy”

Zodd sure has some weird thoughts.
nocturnal Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 1:09 am
its been a while EG… how about a progress report? Havent forgot about us have you? (sniff sniff)
shcnoff Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 1:12 am
not too weird. now that he has found a few people that can rival his fighting abilities, he’s looking for the next big thrill. guts’ booty.
InterRage Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 1:45 am
or, he gets off by his almost emediate death.
DeMs Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 2:19 am
Griffith defeated Zodd and Gutts is Zodd’s most ADMIRED rival. He joined Griff’ because he was part of the Godhand and because he was defeated. MAYBE he would join Gutts if he defeated him or realize, on proportional standards how much he is outstanding compared to Griffith?

I actually don’t think so. The greatest fights possible coming with death/defeat in Zodd’s eyes seems to be something more important to him. Right now he is acting out of “duty”. Maybe he’ll act later out of true admiration – which is how Griff gets people for his goal.

What I mean is Zodd is NOT following Griffith because he admires him… Hell I don’t think he’ll follow officially someday Gutts. The fight part is more interesting to him; it’s like his own salvation. Maybe we’ll understand his reasoning better once we know more about him with some more discussions and flashbacks during those times long ago with/against SK.
annull Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 3:22 am
Aetherfukz is indeed talking about things thats happen once in a lifetime, freak accidents and amazing feats of humanity. Guts does things like this without thought, everyday. There is a difference.
Thana Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 6:12 am
“Though, funny enough, cutting the head off of Zodd was an interesting topic, kinda reminded me of the scorpion & the turtle (or frog depending on the telling) fable. Tactically, Gutts did the right thing. He has his goals, and he used the resources around to get to it. I mean, *I*’d use Zodd as a tool when I’m fighting something big directly, wouldn’t you?”

Thats the point. Gutts is a great tactician. I already reminded you how he defeated some powerful apostles – with tricks. If Gutts cut off Zodds head there would still be a powerful Ganishka with an unreachable vulnerable spot. Zodd is someone he would always fight face to face, still in reach of his slayer.

Human or not human – the question: I think most of you should stop using examples or conclusions made of nothing. The things we know is that Gutts could have died in nearly every battle with an apostle or shortly after that if Puck didnt heal him. Its true that it looks impossible but the story is also about willpower and Gutts showes it in every fight. But to bring also an example : Götz von Berlichingen. He was a german knight, always fighting on the front and also losing a hand, exchanged with a metal hand. He is pretty similar to Gutts. Though fighting a lot he got over 80y old.
Samael Daemon Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 7:55 am
Wow. 13000+ views and 300+ posts (and counting). that must be some kind of new record huh?

Well I can at least account for about 1000 of the views
thedude Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 10:28 am
i need my berserk fix! im going crazy. love the scans. u guys do great work keep it up.
Deepzound Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 11:14 am
Must say that the wait is killing me here, can’t help but feel tempted to either find a raw or a bad translation but then again I want to really have a great experience when I read this chapter for the first time..

Patience is a virtue, but I’m not very virtuous.
citan666 Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 11:44 am
This is worse than a crack addict waiting for a pay check…
Samael Daemon Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
You should see me now… wraped up in a blanket…
my boss just called me and told me I don’t have to show up at work any more (nice fellow, I still get paid right?)

And all I can do… is press F5
Arto Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
*biting his finger nails* We will still get the translation before the 292 comes out, right? 0.0”’
Gemino Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
My itching like a crack fiend with chicken pox. C’mon give me a lil something.. I would give you a hamburger
InterRage Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
time to get that extra dough by having some advertising when the next chapter comes out. It’l be like the superbowl.
InterRage Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
or like when some people shoot each other for a new video game console.

It’s that good. Good enough to kill for. Die bitch! My translated manga!
Civvie Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
I think there will be enough copies for everyone no one will have to be shot…Although cutting with huge swords is totally possible and with this death are occur. Long live Gatts <>
Sijy Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
vashfanatic Says:
“but since human beings inherently are full of darkness and evil, it is a corrupt and evil God. What humans really want, according to Miura, is a Grifith! We don’t really /want/ a Guts. It’s a pretty biting indictment of human nature.”

But if Griffith is portrayed as the angelic savior to mankind, wouldn’t the evil nature of men prefer the demonic Guts who overthrows the pure Griffith?

I haven’t thought about SK refusing the power of the 5th godhand….interesting point thedude.

(read up to 267, but have to go so I’ll post these two points first)
Sefo Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Berserk OWNS! can’t w8 to read it:D
The Herald Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
Humans like to live by ideals but can’t always necessarily stand by them. I think that Griffith is a representation of the idealism humanity has, and how those ideals are false and fade away.
tito2 Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Now we will se femto
thedude Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
im rereading the entire series cause i cant stand the wait. it gets better everytime. kentaro miura is one messed up dude but he f-ing rocks. he is pure genius. just cant get enough berserk
vashfanatic Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
“But if Griffith is portrayed as the angelic savior to mankind, wouldn’t the evil nature of men prefer the demonic Guts who overthrows the pure Griffith?”

The kind of heroes we like are obvious heroes, the ones that seem perfect and pure, and Griffith looks just like that. I thought The Herald’s answer was a good way of putting it. People don’t like ambiguity, at least not in real life (in fiction, of course, we love it, which is why “Berserk” is so awesome!).
presumptiousnickname Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Just 5 days for the next Berserk! 22th of November is in the corner! GREAT!
krazyivan Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 9:52 pm
still NO BERSERK? NOOOOOOOOO! There is no reason to live!
Where’s my kayak? AAAA!
Mr.E Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 1:57 am
heres a thought

if guts did cut Zodds head off, and survived then presumably, Guts would have defeated Zodd. now considering that Zodd could in fact be immortal, and survived then would Guts be on equal footing as Griffith in Zodds mind, after all both would of defeated him once so both have equal claim to his loyalty. since Griffith had to defeat Zodd before his loyalty was given that shows that Zodd was not willing to give himself over to Griffith just because he is one of the God-hand. and voila you have a Zodd Gutts party, Unstoppable!

also if you can find it in your mercy files to give us an ETA, colour would return to the world again.

thanks
Billy Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 2:28 am
Whatever happened to Femto?
Stoil Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 3:01 am
Shut up guys! it’s FREE service so don’t whine.
We will get it when it’s ready. If you want to get it faster do it yourself or try helping.
Daiceman Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 3:22 am
The only people worse then the whiners are those who complain about the whiners, Stoil
nocturnal Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 3:56 am
wonder whats the hold up? read the other guys and it was better than nothing, but still waiting for theres.
hinhin Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 5:12 am
What is worse ? those who complain about those who complain about the whinners or the whinners themselves?
I guess the preview was a 1 page spoiler, so complete was just next weekend.
Pez93 Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 6:36 am
where is the chapter?
Mammoth Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 8:42 am
Wow this is probably by far the longest wait from preview to release, but I am sure it is for good reason. Perhaps there are just a LOT to translate? Or EG is getting their hands on the next chapter also and just give us a one big release of 2 chapters on Thanksgiving ^_^ .
Mr.E Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 8:45 am
nah i refuse to read a poor translation, otherwise you get the wrong interpretation of not only the words but the concepts and philosophy of miura. without that berserk is just another slash and hack manga.

maybe evil genius’s arch rival good imbecile has finally caught up with them
erfo Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 8:58 am
when berserk is hapen payable manga ,I think we beter pay for reading
DeMs Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 9:53 am
Don’t think about the release, instead let your imagination go free about the previous chapters and volumes, try to make new connections (from theories to keep dignity instead of trying to speak as if what you say are facts), share it, explain why and how you came up to those new thoughts, let people do the same and so on.

I mean that posting here isn’t as exquisite as reading a new Berserk chapter, since it can reverse MANY and create new theories – but it’s pretty darn good enough for me as a “subdrug” :p

I remember when Gutts started thinking about being on the same level of Griff’ so he can be, by his own standards and definition, become a friend. He didn’t want him to look down with a cheesy smile. Actually, seeing the direction Gutts is going, Griff IS an enemy. Would Femto (consciously switching the name there for ambiguity ) let him become a friend?

What would Gutts have to do to get on the same level? Certainly not a copy paste I believe – if I’d figure that out I would stop reading Berserk ^^

About Gutts cutting Zodd’s head off – Neither Gutts OR Zodd would have got better ego from that experience… Gutts and Zodd are somewhat alike. Zodd SEEKS battle as much as Gutts was SEEKS to stay alive. Gutts has evolved a lot from the start, so stating that he’s seeking only to stay alive is very inappropriate, I admit.

If you have read the whole Berserk so far, you’ll see what I mean why he’s SIMILAR – not EXACTLY THE SAME – to Zodd – mindwise. Probably why Zodd sort of likes him as much as Gutts can understand somewhat the way Zodd is reasoning. But they are still enemies and both know that.
Gackt Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 10:15 am
“What would Gutts have to do to get on the same level? Certainly not a copy paste I believe – if I’d figure that out I would stop reading Berserk ^^”

It’s possible that Griffith, or perhaps a part of his new conciousness, already considers Gattsu as a friend due to Gattsu doing exactly what Griffith said was the requirement of a true friend. Gattsu’s dream is something along the lines of swinging his sword and fighting (which he still does), and having Caska by his side (well she is with him, but not the way he wanted it to be). So as Gattsu fights against Griffith, will Griffith see what a true friend Gattsu is? Perhaps this will come into play in the end if either Gattsu defeats Griffith, his dying words may be about something about friendship.
Sijy Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 11:59 am
One aspect of the chopping off Zodd’s head decision would also be Gutts newfound desire to protect Caska (and others), so he probably realizes that Zodd is “honorable” and wouldn’t attack his friends. I forget what happened when he started trying to fight Zodd when they took out the lightening avatar, but didn’t Gutts back down in order to keep helping his friends at that time as well?
InterRage Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Serpico did.
and the thing about Guts seeking to stay alive. I think he’s beyond that though. Apostles and everyone against Guts says that he is just surviving. meaning, his pursuit will kill him, but I think Guts sees it as, it will set him free.

2 ways to look at it.
Someone Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Wrrr…where the fuck is that translation?!
Tell me how the fuck can i live another hour without it?
Its impossible.
Im tired of waiting.
Theres a chance i wont make till the morning, so EG, plz upload the translation or i will miserably die.
And it will be Your fault.
;<
No kurwa, ile mozna czekac O_o
DeMs Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Actually Serpico somewhat interfered when things were heating up between Zodd and Gutt’s dialog by rephrasing him as a reminder. Not dealing with monsters/animals was that pretty much – i gotta go look it back if any of would like the exact sentences that were used
Aetherfukz Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Well Zodd said that they don’t have any business here anymore, so he will leave Guts and his duel for another time. Then Guts asked if Griffith was there also. Upon which Zodd replied “What would you do if he were? Because if you would go up against our master, we would tear you apart, no matter if you could still stand” (paraphrased). Then Guts backed down because he knew in his situation he couldn’t beat Zodd let alone all the other apostles that were there.
Mister Mon Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
“What do you care about some pissing contest between monsters, right?”
DeMs Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
ya sumfin like that
Samael Daemon Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
Yes, If it wherent for Serpico-kun reasoning him, Gatts would have been chopped liver.

Zodd displayed his remarkable sence of honor when he almost killed his own apostle who wanted to devour Gatts & Co.

@ Mr E. you mind if I use “Good Imbecile” as my new screen name? I don’t think I ever laughed that hard at any post.
Gnat Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
>> nah i refuse to read a poor translation

Definitely agree there. A little patience can be pretty rewarding, I’ll wait for a good reliable group even if they are slow.

It’s would be like being hungry for steak but settling for bologna because steak takes too long to cook and it only takes 10 seconds to open the fridge and slap some bologna on bread.

>>Theres a chance i wont make till the morning, so EG, plz >>upload the translation or i will miserably die.

For those who are super-impatient and pulling out their hair, killing their friends, or planning suicide due to Berserk deprivation and want to share it with us; I am making a completely unofficial BS announcement that the translation will not be ready for another week (feel free to assume it is real though). So… do whatever extreme things you need to do and if you are still alive in 7 days check back. Heck plan ahead and throw a party for next weekend to celebrate the release. It will save you some stress and maybe you can live as long as the 80-year old knight guy.
krazyivan Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
@Gnat if Someone swears in two languages in one post he may mean it.

The worst thing that’s killing us is no info on why is the release delayed (Starnum wrote something about it being because of “the man” but i didn’t quite get that) or when can we expect it to arrive – actually learning that it’s due in two weeks time would be keep me from visiting the site every 10 minutes. And please, don’t think that I’m ungrateful or want EG to do their job faster. I worship my noble berserk providers like gods, yet just want to know when can I download another wonder.
Marte Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
>>A little patience can be pretty rewarding, I’ll wait
>>for a good reliable group even if they are slow.

I agree with you,except for one thing.Most of the times,the translations are done having in mind an english-speaking audience!This would seem normal,but take as an example the translations of the lines of all the pirates.For an english-speaking man, they may be comprehensible,but for me,who know english as a 2nd language,they’re nearly like a complete different language.I can barely understand an half of what they say.
vashfanatic Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
where do you guys get the raws? I’d love to see the original Japanese text, if simply because I never have before.
schizo420aoe Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
Same thing I was wondering about and another thing any round about when it will be out so I can mark my calendar
From same place as Someone, yet someone else Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
@ vashfanatic
chceck the internets

@ krazyivan
seconded, reloading page every ten friggin’ seconds = no fun
Mr.E Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
@ Samael Daemon

sure thing, as long as you remember who gave you your name.

there’s power in names, and i want it!
Gnat Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 8:58 pm
What do you do the rest of the time when there is no release to check for? Just assume it won’t be released in the next 10 minutes, the next hour, or the next day, and go enjoy something that you would do if there wasn’t a release.

If you enjoy reading what people say and their crazy theories… sure check back every hour to see if someone responded to your wacked out post. Otherwise take a holiday and check back tomorrow.

Do a search for Psi29a on the page and you can prolly find the closest thing to updates. I know these are vague…but it is better than promising a time and then not having it done.

November 11th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
>>Mystic is working on the translation as I type this. Real >>life commitments make it difficult sometimes, but it is >>his baby and he has said he will work on it till either he >>or Miura dies.
November 12th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
>>@Aetherfukz: ^_^ Makes us happy to know our work is not in >>vain. I can’t give you all an ETA other than we are >>working on it now.
nocturnal Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
whens the next release coming out? I think eg admires miura so much that they adopted his habit of a lengthy release date.
titox Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
do You think griffih is a bisexual?
nocturnal Says:
November 18th, 2007 at 3:25 am
well… he banged that rich noble for money. I would say that makes him a definite canidate.
Reginald Funkenstein Says:
November 18th, 2007 at 9:03 pm
What do you think Griffith’s, or I should say, Femto’s ultimate goal is here? I’m starting to get the feeling, albeit without concrete evidence, that the goal is to set up a massive eclipse ceremony, or something like it that would completely encompass the world. I’m just feeling that Locus couldn’t quite contain a certain glee at the end of chapter 291. (If that’s his glee, I’d hate to see his anger)

This is starting to look like Determinism, upon Griffith’s white wings, is carrying the world toward the proverbial “Sea of LCL” (Sorry, Neon Genesis allusion/metaphor)